Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[JPRouve]

That's fine to say that if that's how you see it, but if the leave option is activated, are you going to accept what the EU tells us?
Are you happy for Britain to try and reverse it's decision and get in line with what the EU says?

The EU will say nothing, as long as you don't act like idiots you will have a deal that suit you but at the same time suit the EU better.

 

[Jonnymufc]

Let's be honest, you can have all the rational discussions in the world about leave or remain; but the fact remains that a significant portion of the people who voted leave, didn't understand any of the relevant complexities to this move.

These people voted on emotion, followed the crowd, or had more nefarious motivations. This was always going to be a disaster from the start, and it is obvious that the argument from Leave was always paper thin at best. There is absolutely no strategy whatsoever on what to do now, and the leaders of the leave campaign are already going back on half the things they campaigned on.

I'm embarrassed and ashamed at how our country has acted these past few months. I hope to God that sense can prevail and we an salvage something from this debacle. Whatever positive outcome is achieved, it will despite Leave rather than because of them.

Look, I am embarrassed by some of the things some Leave people have said in recent days. They stopped one woman on the street who when asked 'What about all the money the EU have given to local projects?' grabbed her England shirt and said 'I don't care'. Obviously a total moron.

However, if you have read my posts then I hope you'd acknowledge I voted Leave for rational reasons. What would you suggest I do in my position? It's a binary question and I felt (after a LOT of contemplation) that one was better than the other. All I personally can do is make the rational argument, notwithstanding some of the twats that happened to do the same.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

There is something between "getting a good deal" and "trying to destroy"..

Not if brexit is worthwhile.
There are too many people who have lost all hope. It's like talking to people who are heading to the gas chamber because that's where we all belong for being so defiant.
I never thought the EU could have so much influence over people.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The EU will say nothing, as long as you don't act like idiots you will have a deal that suit you but at the same time suit the EU better.

This.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

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I'm lost for words...my initial and callous instinct is that I really want that town to suffer

 

[vidic blood & sand]

So we should expect a treaty beyond what anyone else has? You do realise we haven't been a major global power since the 1950s?

YES

Europe depends on our trade.

 

[Tyrion]

I have missed most of this thread so I'll just try and guess what I think will happen (I will definitely get at least something wrong):

1. Brexiteer will take over (hopefully Johnson) and will postpone start of negotiations to deal with Scotland and remainers as well as formulating a plan. Labour will be no stronger and will be spectators to much of it.
   
2. EU will push for negotiations immediately to end uncertainty. Frustration might push some to want to make an example of the UK rather than encourage further exits.
3. Scotland will push for independence referendum and will get it. Some Sinn Féin members will try the same but fail.
4. Scotland will win independence referendum (just) because divided parties in London won't be able to offer any argument and independence may look like the safe option by comparison. It will stay in the EU as France and Germany will want to save face to some extent.
   
5. rUK will agree a deal that will go back on at least some of the promises made during the campagin (e.g. a half solution for NI border, immigration won't fall below 100,000 and it will still follow some EU rules) as they aren't completely stupid and the deal will just pass a second referendum.
6. Scotland leaving and reduced trade will weaken the UK economy but it won't implode as some predict. Right wing politicians and trade with poorer areas of the world will result in worse conditions for working class but economic loss will be covered up by nationalistic nonsense. A more isolationist UK will be less influential on the world stage but most won't care.
   
7. rUK will carry on much as it did before with slightly more direct control over it's slightly weaker economy and will continue to carry a grumbling eurosceptic fringe that will want less ties with Europe but at least they'll be outside the EU pissing around rather than inside pissing on everyone.
8. EU will weather a few calls for independence by right wing extremists in europe but integration will be on hold for years.

 

[Berbaclass]

I'm lost for words...my initial and callous instinct is that I really want that town to suffer

Looks like the idiots will get what they deserve

 

[MikeUpNorth]

I'm lost for words...my initial and callous instinct is that I really want that town to suffer

That might be the most frustrating article I have ever read.

 

[Tyrion]

If Britain can't build enough houses to accommodate the amount of immigrants flooding into the country, to where house prices have risen to where it's extremely hard to buy a house, there are a lot of people who will have a voice saying that something has to change.

That doesn't have anything to do with what I said.

 

[Jonnymufc]

YES

Europe depends on our trade.

To be honest mate, I am probably with the remainers here. The problem is that the EU is DESPERATE to continue its existence. If the UK gets a deal which is viewed as favourable then it will trigger the end of the EU. The UK needs access to the single market and so my belief is some kind of compromise will be struck but that it will largely be based on free movement still. The EU will suffer the effects of losing the UK's trade to ensure it survives IMO.

Doesn't mean that this won't change in future though, that is the crucial point.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

The EU will say nothing, as long as you don't act like idiots you will have a deal that suit you but at the same time suit the EU better.

Such a deal does not exist. If it did, the European Union will be seen by all for what it is. A dictatorship.

 

[Red Dreams]

anyone think the EU will make a counter offer of some sorts to bring Britain back?

 

[simonhch]

Look, I am embarrassed by some of the things some Leave people have said in recent days. They stopped one woman on the street who when asked 'What about all the money the EU have given to local projects?' grabbed her England shirt and said 'I don't care'. Obviously a total moron.

However, if you have read my posts then I hope you'd acknowledge I voted Leave for rational reasons. What would you suggest I do in my position? It's a binary question and I felt (after a LOT of contemplation) that one was better than the other. All I personally can do is make the rational argument, notwithstanding some of the twats that happened to do the same.

Well, evidently my post wasn't aimed at you. Furthermore, you proved my point for me.

I have read your posts and while I don't agree with a lot of what you say, you clearly understand the mechanics of the arguments for and against; and I respect your decision. If the majority of Leavers were like you, I wouldn't be so outraged right now. But they aren't, and I am. A lot of people are, because we feel like we've been brought down by a simple minded, intolerant, racist and uneducated portion of the population.

I've seen the worst parts of being British come to the fore in recent times, and I fear for our future. This wasn't even a rational debate on EU membership, this was just a bunch of disingenuous idiots frothing at the mouth and spouting slogans. The great irony is, that the people who are going to be most affected by it, are the working class who voted for it. I liken it to the huge white working class voter base the Republican Party draw on. The sort of people who vote against universal health, despite being the ones who need it the most.

 

[Berbaclass]

anyone think the EU will make a counter offer of some sorts to bring Britain back?

No, they've made their position clear already. Pack your bags...

 

[Tyrion]

YES

Europe depends on our trade.

http://infacts.org/uk-needs-eu-more-than-it-needs-us/

There are many problems with the argument.

One is that it totally ignores proportionality. Britain’s exports to the EU represent 13% of our GDP. The rest of the EU’s exports to Britain represent just 3% of its GDP. Neither side would win from a trade war. But we would be hit proportionately much harder. We need them more than they need us. They could afford to play hard ball. We couldn’t as, if they limited access to the single market which accounts for 44% of our exports, we would be hit badly.

Another problem is our fallback position. If we didn’t get a trade deal, we’d have to rely on the World Trade Organisation (WTO). The snag is that the WTO works well for goods (where the Germans are strong) and doesn’t do much for services (where the UK is strong). We wouldn’t be able to put many restrictions on German and other exports to us, but they’d be pretty much free to shut us out of their services markets, including finance. So we’d have a weak negotiating position.

Yet another problem is that some EU countries might see our departure as an opportunity to grab some of our crown jewels. The two main prizes would be: to slice up parts of the City and entice it to Frankfurt, Paris, Amsterdam or Dublin; and to attract some of the large flows of foreign direct investment that now come to Britain, in part so that businesses can access the entire EU market. This would give some EU countries an incentive to stop us getting full access to its market post-Brexit, CEPS, a Brussels-based think-tank argues in a recent report.

That might not be the only incentive to play hardball. The EU might not want a velvet divorce as that might encourage other countries to peel off.

As if that’s not enough, the argument that the EU needs us because we have a deficit assumes the only good thing about trade is exports. But imports are beneficial too. If EU exports to the UK were artificially restricted, our consumers would be harmed. They would have to pay more when they shop and would have less choice.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

anyone think the EU will make a counter offer of some sorts to bring Britain back?

Nope

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Such a deal does not exist. If it did, the European Union will be seen by all for what it is. A dictatorship.

A 28 country dictatorship

 

[JPRouve]

Such a deal does not exist. If it did, the European Union will be seen by all for what it is. A dictatorship.

A dictatorship?

 

[Red Dreams]

I still find it hard to believe we have left.

I can understand the 'Leavers'. But surely the Remain voters should have got out to vote. Was the explanations poor?

Emotionally I can understand why some wanted to leave. But logically it seems several steps backwards.

Whatever, I still feel we will pull through this.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

I don't understand what the remainers want to achieve now. It's all so negative.
If remain had won, I'd accept the vote of the people, but would want the UK to try and keep pursuing a better deal for the Uk from the EU, but I can't understand what the remainers here are looking to achieve.
Are you wanting to try and reverse the referendum decision, or just give up in despair?

 

[lem8sh]

Has anyone read this? Words fail me.
Edit: Was posted earlier

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale?CMP=twt_gu

 

[Jonnymufc]

Well, evidently my post wasn't aimed at you. Furthermore, you proved my point for me.

I have read your posts and while I don't agree with a lot of what you say, you clearly understand the mechanics of the arguments for and against; and I respect your decision. If the majority of Leavers were like you, I wouldn't be so outraged right now. But they aren't, and I am. A lot of people are, because we feel like we've been brought down by a simple minded, intolerant, racist and uneducated portion of the population.

I've seen the worst parts of being British come to the fore in recent times, and I fear for our future. This wasn't even a rational debate on EU membership, this was just a bunch of disingenuous idiots frothing at the mouth and spouting slogans. The great irony is, that the people who are going to be most affected by it, are the working class who voted for it. I liken it to the huge white working class voter base the Republican Party draw on. The sort of people who vote against universal health, despite being the ones who need it the most.

Fair enough. I was genuinely torn because I absolutely acknowledge that the EU has not been all bad. I just made the choice that the potential rewards were worth the risks.

All I would say is that whilst the idiot fraternity definitely exists, 17.4m is a hell of a chunk of people and surely you must acknowledge that there must have been a fair few clueless remainers as well?

What do you think is now the way forward? Do you still believe in fighting the result, or should the best now be made of the situation?

 

[Berbaclass]

I don't understand what the remainers want to achieve now. It's all so negative.
If remain had won, I'd accept the vote of the people, but would want the UK to try and keep pursuing a better deal for the Uk from the EU, but I can't understand what the remainers here are looking to achieve.
Are you wanting to try and reverse the referendum decision, or just give up in despair?

Well personally I'm hoping the Scotland thing is true.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

A dictatorship?

Why not?

We'll have free trade with every nation other than those in the EU.

 

[Manny]

The Aussies can help too, and the yanks but guess what... they don't. And they don't have free movement, and they have much much larger countries.

I'm amazed that after this referendum you think the UK public would be happy with any large number of muslim refugees.

Expanding free movement should be the future we as a World are trying to move towards, not even more point systems to help the privileged have even more privilages.

This is a really good point. Never given it much thought.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I don't understand what the remainers want to achieve now. It's all so negative.
If remain had won, I'd accept the vote of the people, but would want the UK to try and keep pursuing a better deal for the Uk from the EU, but I can't understand what the remainers here are looking to achieve.
Are you wanting to try and reverse the referendum decision, or just give up in despair?

I think the decision is made, and we have to follow through.

But it's good if people like you can be educated on the matter so as not to believe some of the fairy tales you are spouting.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

I don't understand what the remainers want to achieve now. It's all so negative.
If remain had won, I'd accept the vote of the people, but would want the UK to try and keep pursuing a better deal for the Uk from the EU, but I can't understand what the remainers here are looking to achieve.
Are you wanting to try and reverse the referendum decision, or just give up in despair?

There's not a lot we can do really is there? I am moving a few investments around from a personal point of view, and have a lot of planning to do in my job as we are an exporter.

From a broader perspective, what can we do but let the process play out? We are just being honest and realistic in our assessment of the situation. I'm not all doom and gloom, but I do think there are going to be real challenges, politically as much as economically. The leave voters are not going to be satisfied by the deal we're able to strike with the EU.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I expect the first year to be bad, but when the potential EFTA trade agreements kicks in, the economy will get a massive boost.

Sweden still have their own currency, i expect them to leave if they have a referendum. They have a big immigrantion problem and the far right movement is gaining momentum

Moved threads...First year? It'll be mid 2019 just to exit the EU. Then join in the EEC to get into EFTA, right?

 

[JPRouve]

Why not?

We'll have free trade with every nation other than those in the EU.

You have free trade with every nation other than the EU?

 

[langster]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101369197156955&set=a.10101369198638985&type=3&theater

Words fail me. Truly disgusting and I fear this is just the beginning, it's going to get a lot worse after all we are only 2 days in.

 

[Carolina Red]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101369197156955&set=a.10101369198638985&type=3&theater

Words fail me. Truly disgusting and I fear this is just the beginning, it's going to get a lot worse after all we are only 2 days in.

Great. Just great. Fascism is winning.

 

[Nikhil]

I still find it hard to believe we have left.

I can understand the 'Leavers'. But surely the Remain voters should have got out to vote. Was the explanations poor?

Emotionally I can understand why some wanted to leave. But logically it seems several steps backwards.

Whatever, I still feel we will pull through this.

You are British buddy?

Yeah, the UK just seems so divided now. Scotland voted to remain in the UK in the knowledge that the UK is in the EU and due to fears that an independent Scotland may not get EU membership. Now this happens. It may be the end of the Union.

 

[Berbaclass]

We need Malcolm Tucker to save us

 

[Jippy]

Has anyone read this? Words fail me.
Edit: Was posted earlier

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale?CMP=twt_gu

It's an interesting and well written piece, but ultimately based on an interview with a clearly uneducated teenager. Jeremy Kyle journalism for the Guardian middle class, ultimately.

 

[Manny]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101369197156955&set=a.10101369198638985&type=3&theater

Words fail me. Truly disgusting and I fear this is just the beginning, it's going to get a lot worse after all we are only 2 days in.

Awful and it is just the beginning. Lots of ethnic minorities will have to put with this sort of sh!t from now on.

It comes with voting in favour of far right politics.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

It's stupendous on how much support a campaign can gain through blatant lies to public....and still end up getting elected as PM

- No £350m to NHS
- Now halt on immigration also questionable.

Aren't they the 2 big platforms the Leave campaign was based on? Now, both are backtracked within days of result. This would be funny if it wasn't so tragic!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ises-mounting-live-updates-polls-7103076.html

 

[vidic blood & sand]

There's not a lot we can do really is there? I am moving a few investments around from a personal point of view, and have a lot of planning to do in my job as we are an exporter.

From a broader perspective, what can we do but let the process play out? We are just being honest and realistic in our assessment of the situation. I'm not all doom and gloom, but I do think there are going to be real challenges, politically as much as economically. The leave voters are not going to be satisfied by the deal we're able to strike with the EU.

From the beginning of June I've been investing a large sum of money in an american corporation because the shares were offered at a discounted price, but that discount has been annihilated as a result of the pound falling and the economy hitting the skids. But I'm believing the pound will recover, we'll see.
A lot of the reason for the skepticism I think is based on the deals that Norway and Switzerland were able to achieve, and threats coming from Brussels etc, but this cannot be compared to the UK leaving the EU.
This is absolutely massive for the EU. In a way it could be seen as a political war between Britain and Germany. Britain is not the strongest economy in the EU, but Germany will have to sink itself in order to prop Europe up if both decided to dig it's heels in. Not to mention the benefits Britain would have trading with non EU countries.

 

[Red Dreams]

You are British buddy?

Yeah, the UK just seems so divided now. Scotland voted to remain in the UK in the knowledge that the UK is in the EU and due to fears that an independent Scotland may not get EU membership. Now this happens. It may be the end of the Union.

a complete mess.

 

[lem8sh]

It's an interesting and well written piece, but ultimately based on an interview with a clearly uneducated teenager. Jeremy Kyle journalism for the Guardian middle class, ultimately.

It's the 62% for leave that amazed me, they must all be uneducated on the subject considering the funding they have received.