pierrethesnack
Tasty
Zidane or George Best.
Is this really true? Not 100% sure about the changes in quality in the team before and after George Best, but Northern Ireland reached the quarterfinal at the World Cup in 58 lead by Blanchflower and topped their group at the World Cup in 82 unbeaten after winning against Spain. Both times they went out against a brilliant France team. Best's time falls right between those two generations if I'm not mistaken.Firstly, Bestie played for Northern Ireland. Their international team at the time in comparison to the rest of the national teams were further behind than Wales was to the other European teams this year.
Definitely. My point was had he been born for Argentina or Brazil like other names here he would have a better chance at getting success.But surely it has to be seen as a bit of a failure to never qualify for a big tournament considering how well they did right before or after him?
From what Argentina games I have seen, Messi hasn't exactly struggled. He was rather brilliant quite often, so I think it's at least partly a myth. But I haven't seen that many games to be fair.I don't think the greatest of all time should struggle on the NT stage because he plays a different system.
Is this really true? Not 100% sure about the changes in quality in the team before and after George Best, but Northern Ireland reached the quarterfinal at the World Cup in 58 lead by Blanchflower and topped their group at the World Cup in 82 unbeaten after winning against Spain. Both times they went out against a brilliant France team. Best's time falls right between those two generations if I'm not mistaken.
Now, I honestly don't know much about Best's performance level in the nationalteam or if he really brought his best football to the team in the qualifiers. Obviously there isn't much footage available because he never played in a tournament. But surely it has to be seen as a bit of a failure to never qualify for a big tournament considering how well they did right before or after him?
Messi
Marradona
Pele
Cruyff
I'd love to put R9 up there, still my fav player of all time, unfortunately those damn knees!
It wasn't harder to score then - Pele himself told that he would've scored 2000 goals in today's game. Tactical progress (mostly in defensive game), changes in rules and referee's approach (you can't touch attacking player now without referee blowing the whistle).It was much harder to score back then, the ball was heavier, the shoes were worse, the pitches were worse, and defenders could get away with murder. Yet he has scored more goals than Messi ever will. Pele has won 3 world cups and scored 77 goals in 91 NT games.
Best player ever: Pele -> Has achieved it all on every stage along with being the standout player of his generation. It was much harder to score back then, the ball was heavier, the shoes were worse, the pitches were worse, and defenders could get away with murder. Yet he has scored more goals than Messi ever will. Pele has won 3 world cups and scored 77 goals in 91 NT games.
Best player today: Messi -> I don't think the greatest of all time should struggle on the NT stage because he plays a different system. 0 major trophies & 56 goals in 114 NT games. Though if the GOAT debate was based on dribbling ability, Messi would win it easily. Never seen someone get past another player so effortlessly.
Yup -these things tend to get underrated, especially when it comes to judging dribbling ability and technique. The bounce was awkward, pitches terrible, boots heavy and long way to get the same control compared to todays technologies.
from old highlights you can see how the ball was wobbling uncontrollable at times and how defenders "handled" Pele a lot of the time - flying tackles, kicking him in the ankles, sliding behind him, pushing him all over, etc. Many of those "legit" tackles would be given fouls nowadays.
Figueroa did it in his own boxStill haven't seen anyone else play a deliberate one two off a defenders legs
I haven't seen Pele or Maradona play enough to make a fair judgement on them, and it's also near impossible to compare players of different eras.
With that said, I think Messi is the GOAT. He's been not just one level above the rest but two or three, over a very long period of time. Ronaldo may have scored as many goals as Messi but he doesn't come close when talking about who's the better player.
Also, I can't understand why Messi's individual skill would be greater if Higuain would have happened to score or Romero would have made an extra save in one particular game in his career.
Another Ballon d'Or and perhaps another CL and Cristiano got to be in with a shout, at least.
Robin Friday scored a goal from a free kick with a deliberate one two off a ref, that beats a one two off a defender any dayStill haven't seen anyone else play a deliberate one two off a defenders legs
According to Pele, Best was best. That should be good enough but it was close between them, both football geniuses.
Maradona, Cryuff, Messi and Ronnie have/had the skills but Pele and Best had that little bit extra that was truly jaw-dropping.
I saw Best play. He was the Best, nobody could get a crowd on its feet the way he could.Pele is a moron so if he says Best was the greatest you can bet your house he isnt.
I saw Best play. He was the Best, nobody could get a crowd on its feet the way he could.
Na , you don't hear enough pundits / ex players claiming him as the best ever. If he had one season where he laid on double the amount of assists as he scored , and Real Madrid still won a CL, then you could make more of an argument but whilst he's perceived as a selfish player ( and let's not beat around the bush , he is ) he won't be in that tier with maradona / pele / Messi / Di Stefano who all had the goalscoring instincts of Ronaldo but did far more for their team as a whole .
Pele's quotes mean absolutely nothing, he also said this:According to Pele, Best was best. That should be good enough but it was close between them, both football geniuses.
Maradona, Cryuff, Messi and Ronnie have/had the skills but Pele and Best had that little bit extra that was truly jaw-dropping.
People argue between Pele or Maradona. Di Stéfano is the best, much more complete.
It's very difficult because there have always been players who have been compared with me [as the best player ever]," Pele said. "First there was [Alfredo] Di Stefano, then [Johan] Cruyff, [Franz] Beckenbauer, Bobby Charlton, Maradona and now there is Messi. Leo is the one I like the most -- he's the most complete
The player I like is Butt. He's been the best player up to this point. He's a tremendous midfielder. He's a good marker, he's passionate, he gets forward and he passes well.
On the table was a print of the immortal shirt-swap with Bobby Moore in 1970. "The best teams at that World Cup were England and Brazil," he was saying. "I don't know which players could represent Pele and Bobby Moore now. Maybe Butt and Rivaldo. Bobby was very technical, very tough and always in good condition. He was very hard, but never, never unfair.
Still haven't seen anyone else play a deliberate one two off a defenders legs
All goats can get people on their feet, feck "even" Zidane and Dinho could do that and they are nowhere near the GOAT level. Dont get me wrong, i have nothing against Best and few games that i watched him he looked class but putting him among the greats just because Pele said it its pure nonsense.
You can say the same about the other players. Cristiano has something the others don't. Maradona has something that the other's don't. Messi has some....... and on and on. You can't definitively differentiate players based on a hypothetical 'X factor' that players might possess. So in the end, it boils down to personal preferenceAccording to Pele, Best was best. That should be good enough but it was close between them, both football geniuses.
Maradona, Cryuff, Messi and Ronnie have/had the skills but Pele and Best had that little bit extra that was truly jaw-dropping.
Luis Suarez does it (to some extend) regularly.