Zidane or George Best.
The Greatest Footballer of All Time
- Thread starter Moby
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Best player ever: Pele -> Has achieved it all on every stage along with being the standout player of his generation. It was much harder to score back then, the ball was heavier, the shoes were worse, the pitches were worse, and defenders could get away with murder. Yet he has scored more goals than Messi ever will. Pele has won 3 world cups and scored 77 goals in 91 NT games.
Best player today: Messi -> I don't think the greatest of all time should struggle on the NT stage because he plays a different system. 0 major trophies & 56 goals in 114 NT games. Though if the GOAT debate was based on dribbling ability, Messi would win it easily. Never seen someone get past another player so effortlessly.
Best player today: Messi -> I don't think the greatest of all time should struggle on the NT stage because he plays a different system. 0 major trophies & 56 goals in 114 NT games. Though if the GOAT debate was based on dribbling ability, Messi would win it easily. Never seen someone get past another player so effortlessly.
If I could pick one player to play in a match where my life depended on the result, past or present, it would be Maradona. For me he's the greatest of all time.
Pre-drugs era, like.
Pre-drugs era, like.
Top three is Pele, Maradona and Messi. No idea which order because it doesn't really matter.
Ronaldinho is the most entertaining player of all time, if he'd had the longevity of someone like Messi or Ronaldo he'd easily be the GOAT.
Ronaldinho is the most entertaining player of all time, if he'd had the longevity of someone like Messi or Ronaldo he'd easily be the GOAT.
Hipster pick: Laudrup
For me it's still Pele too. If Messi finally wins something with his NT it may change, but it's unlikely. Pele was ridiculously all-rounded, but Messi has marginally better technique, dribbling and passing, imo.
Is this really true? Not 100% sure about the changes in quality in the team before and after George Best, but Northern Ireland reached the quarterfinal at the World Cup in 58 lead by Blanchflower and topped their group at the World Cup in 82 unbeaten after winning against Spain. Both times they went out against a brilliant France team. Best's time falls right between those two generations if I'm not mistaken.
Now, I honestly don't know much about Best's performance level in the nationalteam or if he really brought his best football to the team in the qualifiers. Obviously there isn't much footage available because he never played in a tournament. But surely it has to be seen as a bit of a failure to never qualify for a big tournament considering how well they did right before or after him?
Definitely. My point was had he been born for Argentina or Brazil like other names here he would have a better chance at getting success.
Messi is the best I have seen.
Maradona, Ronaldo and fat Ronaldo not too far away.
Maldini, Baresi, Matthaeus and Buffon all pretty amazing further back.
Have not seen Pele, Best etc.
Maradona, Ronaldo and fat Ronaldo not too far away.
Maldini, Baresi, Matthaeus and Buffon all pretty amazing further back.
Have not seen Pele, Best etc.
It's impossible to name the definitive greatest player of all time. But by all accounts Alfredo di Stéfano has to be mentioned as a candidate for the top tier along the obvious three. Cruijff too, perhaps.
From what Argentina games I have seen, Messi hasn't exactly struggled. He was rather brilliant quite often, so I think it's at least partly a myth. But I haven't seen that many games to be fair.
Can only name players from my lifetime as they are the only ones I have seen. Would have to say Maradona.........but he was in the days before satellite tv and just before channel four coverage of Serie A so we only really saw him in Internationals. Forgetting his injuries which hampered the end of his career even though he still had great moments (such as against us in the champions league) the player that stood out most for me would actually have to be fat Ronaldo, he destroyed every defender put in front of him, including the best of Serie A when it was the best league and won world cups by himself almost just like Maradona.
There are several others who were truly outstanding for shorter periods of time at the peaks such as Van Basten, Del Piero, Weah, Rivaldo and Ronaldhino but I would have to put Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane, Xavi and Iniesta ahead of them as they have don eit year after year after year. But fat Ronaldo for me really was something else,
There are several others who were truly outstanding for shorter periods of time at the peaks such as Van Basten, Del Piero, Weah, Rivaldo and Ronaldhino but I would have to put Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane, Xavi and Iniesta ahead of them as they have don eit year after year after year. But fat Ronaldo for me really was something else,
In an age of sports science, dieticians, in-depth statistical analysis of opponents, cutting edge training methods and diagnostics I think it is amazing that Messi (of a couple of seasons ago perhaps) stands head and shoulders above his peers. It is for this reason I think he's the best ever.
Well his peak coincided with one world cup - 1970 and two euro's (68,72). For the 1974 WC he was already past it.
In the 1970 qualification they've lost their place in the last game - away to the Soviet Union - needless to say a top side, while beating Turkey twice(Best scoring in one of those games) and drawing at home 0-0 to the USSR.
In 1972 he was their leading goalscorer in qualifications but again didn't qualify because they were with the same USSR side and strong Spain side(although drew them both at home).
in 1968 again they were in a tough group - England the reigning world champion, Scotland - the Lisbon Lions and Wales.
So probably a combination of both - some retiring players of a better side before him and tough opponents in those qualifying rounds.
Maradona.
Brazilian Ronaldo.
Brazilian Ronaldo.
For me there's been no one anywhere near Luis Ronaldo at his peak. He had absolutely everything you could want in a striker. Best and Maradona would be second and third.
Messi
Marradona
Pele
Cruyff
I'd love to put R9 up there, still my fav player of all time, unfortunately those damn knees and GOATs are not about ifs and butts.
Marradona
Pele
Cruyff
I'd love to put R9 up there, still my fav player of all time, unfortunately those damn knees and GOATs are not about ifs and butts.
I guess your preferred Argentinian player is Messi
It wasn't harder to score then - Pele himself told that he would've scored 2000 goals in today's game. Tactical progress (mostly in defensive game), changes in rules and referee's approach (you can't touch attacking player now without referee blowing the whistle).
Pele for me, then Maradona, then Messi. Zidane's the best player I saw in the flesh.
Yup -these things tend to get underrated, especially when it comes to judging dribbling ability and technique. The bounce was awkward, pitches terrible, boots heavy and long way to get the same control compared to todays technologies.
from old highlights you can see how the ball was wobbling uncontrollable at times and how defenders "handled" Pele a lot of the time - flying tackles, kicking him in the ankles, sliding behind him, pushing him all over, etc. Many of those "legit" tackles would be given fouls nowadays.
Still haven't seen anyone else play a deliberate one two off a defenders legs
Messi is comfortably the best footballer I've ever seen. Like, by a distance.
But I can't outright call him (or anyone else) the greatest ever given I've missed out on watching, with regularity, the other 2/3 rivals of his in this respect.
But I do also think the lack of a WC medal isn't sufficient for him not to bw the greatest ever.
But I can't outright call him (or anyone else) the greatest ever given I've missed out on watching, with regularity, the other 2/3 rivals of his in this respect.
But I do also think the lack of a WC medal isn't sufficient for him not to bw the greatest ever.
I haven't seen Pele or Maradona play enough to make a fair judgement on them, and it's also near impossible to compare players of different eras.
With that said, I think Messi is the GOAT. He's been not just one level above the rest but two or three, over a very long period of time. Ronaldo may have scored as many goals as Messi but he doesn't come close when talking about who's the better player.
Also, I can't understand why Messi's individual skill would be greater if Higuain would have happened to score or Romero would have made an extra save in one particular game in his career.
With that said, I think Messi is the GOAT. He's been not just one level above the rest but two or three, over a very long period of time. Ronaldo may have scored as many goals as Messi but he doesn't come close when talking about who's the better player.
Also, I can't understand why Messi's individual skill would be greater if Higuain would have happened to score or Romero would have made an extra save in one particular game in his career.
Pele's always been the obvious choice but I'd fine it hard to argue about him. The man had an incredible World Cup in which he was central to his side winning it at the age of 17. That's just utterly insane, and he managed to achieve a consistent longevity at both club and international level throughout his career.
Maradona's naturally up there too, and Messi probably makes his way into the top three alongside them. The fact he's not won a WC doesn't count against him - it's a short, limited tournament which a player effectively has about three chances to win (sometimes even less). Messi's success at club level (integral to three CL wins) is more than enough to justify his status as one of the greatest.
Maradona's naturally up there too, and Messi probably makes his way into the top three alongside them. The fact he's not won a WC doesn't count against him - it's a short, limited tournament which a player effectively has about three chances to win (sometimes even less). Messi's success at club level (integral to three CL wins) is more than enough to justify his status as one of the greatest.
Figueroa did it in his own box
Yep, it's absurd. A memorable WC win can help enhance a players career if they're influential in winning it, but it's a volatile competition after the group stages in which one bad game or a single poor refereeing decision can often result in a team being knocked out. To judge a player upon that, when they will generally have (at most) two chances of winning it within their prime is insane. Especially when the said player in question has won the world's biggest club competition on multiple occasions anyway, and has an absurd number of honours to his name in general.
Another Ballon d'Or and perhaps another CL and Cristiano got to be in with a shout, at least.
According to Pele, Best was best. That should be good enough but it was close between them, both football geniuses.
Maradona, Cryuff, Messi and Ronnie have/had the skills but Pele and Best had that little bit extra that was truly jaw-dropping.
Maradona, Cryuff, Messi and Ronnie have/had the skills but Pele and Best had that little bit extra that was truly jaw-dropping.
Na , you don't hear enough pundits / ex players claiming him as the best ever. If he had one season where he laid on double the amount of assists as he scored , and Real Madrid still won a CL, then you could make more of an argument but whilst he's perceived as a selfish player ( and let's not beat around the bush , he is ) he won't be in that tier with maradona / pele / Messi / Di Stefano who all had the goalscoring instincts of Ronaldo but did far more for their team as a whole .
Robin Friday scored a goal from a free kick with a deliberate one two off a ref, that beats a one two off a defender any day
Pele is a moron so if he says Best was the greatest you can bet your house he isnt.
I saw Best play. He was the Best, nobody could get a crowd on its feet the way he could.
All goats can get people on their feet, feck "even" Zidane and Dinho could do that and they are nowhere near the GOAT level. Dont get me wrong, i have nothing against Best and few games that i watched him he looked class but putting him among the greats just because Pele said it its pure nonsense.
I don't think Ronaldo s as selfish as he is made out to be. Last season I don't think he had a lot less assists than Messi
By the way why are only attacking players the best in the world? Why can't a Maldini or a Lev Yashin be the best?
Luis Suarez does it (to some extend) regularly.
Its a perfectly legitimate and highly intelligent reason.
Cristiano Ronaldo. Messi would be a close second but I define greatness as more than just how good you are on the ball.
Hell, Adel Taraabt is probably better on the ball than Tom Cleverly but we know who the better footballer is.
Ronaldo's drive, determination and leadership is second to none. He is like a war general that rallies his troops. He kind of goes super saiyin at time and can turn the game around.
Couple all of that with his ability on the ball: can go past anyone, can shoot from anywhere, can be out muscle anyone. He does it all with consistency.
When the ball is at his feet you just know anything can happen right now and there's only one player that has the same ability, Messi.
I don't want to make this a comparison but I have Ronaldo and Messi equal overall on the ball but Ronaldo edges it for me because of his leadership, determination, drive and ability to turn around games. He just has that special something only few players have.
However, I respect and can see anyone that says Messi (or even Ronaldinho). They are more "magical" players. Messi is like this wizard who can pull up anything while Ronaldo is this badass monster who can rip you apart. I go for the monster!
Hell, Adel Taraabt is probably better on the ball than Tom Cleverly but we know who the better footballer is.
Ronaldo's drive, determination and leadership is second to none. He is like a war general that rallies his troops. He kind of goes super saiyin at time and can turn the game around.
Couple all of that with his ability on the ball: can go past anyone, can shoot from anywhere, can be out muscle anyone. He does it all with consistency.
When the ball is at his feet you just know anything can happen right now and there's only one player that has the same ability, Messi.
I don't want to make this a comparison but I have Ronaldo and Messi equal overall on the ball but Ronaldo edges it for me because of his leadership, determination, drive and ability to turn around games. He just has that special something only few players have.
However, I respect and can see anyone that says Messi (or even Ronaldinho). They are more "magical" players. Messi is like this wizard who can pull up anything while Ronaldo is this badass monster who can rip you apart. I go for the monster!
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You can say the same about the other players. Cristiano has something the others don't. Maradona has something that the other's don't. Messi has some....... and on and on. You can't definitively differentiate players based on a hypothetical 'X factor' that players might possess. So in the end, it boils down to personal preference
He does it more close in and he's almost always looking for the nutmeg . Peles was a one two from about 3-4 years away haha