Somebody should tell Xavi and Iniesta they only dreamed about dominating international football for 4 years
Ballon d'Or 2016
- Thread starter Samid
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Pepe won the euros and CL too and pound for pound, was pretty important
Xavi and Iniesta are vital for Barcelona no question, but just for a second imagine a Barcelona team missing Xavi and Iniesta and one missing Messi and tell me the general perception. You know yourself Messi is above and beyond any player in the modern era, he is either seen as the greatest or in the debate.Somebody should tell Xavi and Iniesta they only dreamed about dominating international football for 4 years
Good! Was worried the cannibal would win it.
To all those saying Pepe. Was he even better than Godin last season in La Liga?
I don't need to imagine anything. Spain won 2 euros and a WC. What has messi won outside barcelona?
Yes, and? He's the 3rd greatest player of all time. He's not better than Xavi&Iniesta. He didn't elevate barcelona, barcelona elevated him. It's only in the last 3 seasons that you could make a case for it, and even then it's more of a 50/50 thing
I'm going to take sleeping tablets to increase the chances of waking up late with it having already been posted on F365 rather than waking up early and having to wait.
Viva Ronaldooooooooooooooo
Spain had a golden era of players coming together with a well defined tactical plan that was executed to get the best out of everyone, fantastic acheievement and of course Xavi and Iniesta were vital. Messi has reached 4 major finals, granted two of them he's lost on penalties so the luck hasn't been on his side however it is a fallacy to suggest he hasn't done anything with the NT, its absurd, greatest scorer of Argentina and reached 4 major finals is not a bad job in any way shape or form. Messi is not better than Xavi or Iniesta? Is that a joke? Ask any Barcelona fan what they would want, a prime Xavi & Iniesta or a prime Messi, the fact that the answer is simple shows his great ability. He did elevate Barcelona, as a lifelong fan I know what we are with and without Messi.
Some crazy underrating of Messi here.
Xavi and Iniesta had better teammates at Spain than Messi does at Argentina.
Messi wishes Casillas, Puyol, Pique, Ramos, Xabi Alonso, Busquets, Silva and Villa were Argentinian.
Spain's WC winning XI: iker, ramos, puyol, pique, capdevila, busquets, xabi alonso, xavi, iniesta, pedro, villa. 7/11 played for barcelona.
True. Nevertheless, barcelona without messi was considerably better than messi without barcelona
Fine. You'd rather have messi or xavi&iniesta&villa then?
Wait, lemme get this straight. Jamie fecking Vardy made the top 10?
Funny that when he plays for Argentina, he's not the out and out world beater he is at Barcelona... The same that Ronaldo is not as strong with Portugal as he is with Madrid...
If you're going to tell somebody that they don't know what they're talking about, take the glasses off and look at it from an unbiased view.
Some people are taking this really seriously, especially if the one they wanted to win, didnt.
TBh, there should be one Ronaldo vs Messi award, and another for the rest of the world. Its nuts for almost a decade, weve seen only these two rack up the awards and this is based on their god-like performances/stats/numbers/trophies.
TBh, there should be one Ronaldo vs Messi award, and another for the rest of the world. Its nuts for almost a decade, weve seen only these two rack up the awards and this is based on their god-like performances/stats/numbers/trophies.
Of course he is better than Xavi and Iniesta.
Very few players are as good for their international teams as they are for their clubs and for a good reason too. You don't get the chance to practice moves and tactics to the same extent when playing for a national team, it's basically a group of players who are used to certain style and pace and then are asked to play together in a different manner for the national team.
It's one of the reasons why Spain performed as well as they did between 2008 and 2012, that team was largely built around Barcelona players who knew each other very well and a few players who quickly adapted to the system.
Messi never had that comfort at Argentina who have been a mess for most of his career.
Wait. Xavi and Iniesta as a pair?
They've also been the most talented NT in the world for most of his career. Messi underperfomed in tournament for his NT until the 2015 copa america. Fact.
Rest of what you say is true. But it changes little to this discussion. The point was that messi wouldn't have had the career he's had if he didn't play on a team as good as barcelona. He'd still be the 3rd greatest player of all time and the greatest of the modern era, but scoring 50+ goals a season and winning 7 league titles and 4 CL? No way.
@cyberman i meant them as a pair, yes
Same case can be said for Germany in 2014, mainly Bayern and Dortmund players.
No-brainer this year, Ronaldo deserves it. Messi is still the G.O.A.T., though.
People are taking them as a pair.
Weird question but I think most would take two world class players over one. Especially if the two are probably the most complementary pair to ever play together.
On the contrary Messi is very good for Argentina, his performances particularly since 2010 have gone up a notch, in qualifications for example he is vital, the Argentine team is horribly mismanaged and the burden always falls on him to pull them through. The guy has reached every bloody NT final possible but had the misfortune of not winning anything, granted his performances in the finals haven't been great but nonetheless he is a great player for the NT, its just that the Barcelona Messi is so ridiculous it doesnt get noticed.
Which is precisely my point.[and he's been good in the last two copa finals, too. It's the WC where he folded in the QF and never showed up again]
Ronaldo deserved it but those rankings are proper messed up in my view.
Messi and Griezmann over Suarez?
Lewandowski #16 and Vardy #8?
If there was ever a time for a footballer not named Messi or Ronaldo to win it, it was this year. Suarez has been outstanding and would have been a worthy winner but I think Ronaldo's accomplishments this year just edged it for him in my opinion.
Messi and Griezmann over Suarez?
Lewandowski #16 and Vardy #8? If there was ever a time for a footballer not named Messi or Ronaldo to win it, it was this year. Suarez has been outstanding and would have been a worthy winner but I think Ronaldo's accomplishments this year just edged it for him in my opinion.
I'd take him over the pair.
In many ways, Messi does a better job with Argentina, he just doesn't score at a better ratio because he plays 20 or 30 meters behind where he plays with Barcelona. That's the price to pay if you want to do anything with a midfield consisting of Biglia, Enzo Perez, Mascherano, Gago or Banega.
And that's the same reason why Ronaldo's numbers with Portugal pale in comparison with his Real Madrid ones seeing his scoring ratio getting cut by a half. The thing is I don't see Ronaldo taking a step back 30 meters to become Portugal's engine in midfield, he does that once or twice per game but not as a basic of his role.
If everyone wanted to compare these players in a fair way then Ronaldo would get out of the question once anyone mentions Iniesta or Xavi to take credit from Messi, Leo has not only the goalscoring prowess to match Ronaldo but also a list of qualities that bring him closer to that duo than any other player in the world, let alone Ronaldo. Is like comparing Gerd Müller to fecking Pelé
Feels amazing
So happy he's won it.
100% no doubt. Anyone who questions that needs their brain checked.
Wonder how Messi is feeling? Will this energise him more in certain games because sometimes you see him strolling about. Not a dig by the way because he's that good he can do and I actually think he should of won it.
I'm sorry mate but I think we have to agree to disagree, ask a Barcelona fan when you come across them and you'll see the consensus will go with me.
Now you add in Villa lool. Look if it was a choice that I make a team from scratch and I can pick either Xavi and Iniesta together or just Messi? I would still pick Messi.
Expected, but I don't think he was better or more impactful than Messi or Griezmann. Also, Vardy ahead of Aubameyang, Lewandowski, and Modric is a piss take.
So a player in steep decline won Ballon D'or. Some wise words - I wouldn't bet against Ronaldo winning his 5th in future.
I knew someone would bold that one bit, get a bit stroppy and ignore the rest of the post. Your thoughts on any of the rest of my post would be nice, because Messi has "elevated" argentina far less than ronaldo has elevated portugal, and argentina have a much better squad.
No doubt. It's called bias
If Messi is GOAT and Ronaldo has won 4 Ballon D'ORs in a head to head matchup, what does that make Ronaldo?
Very good. This award is about being the best player in the team that wins the most. If Barca and Argentina wouldn't win anything then Messi would have to do something extraordinary to win, which he did when he won it in 2012. Same goes for Ronaldo or any other player. If this was hands down the award for "who's the best player in the world regardless of performances and medals" Messi would win every year and there's no award that's like that.
GOAT is measurement of success and achievement though. You can't be considered the greatest if you have achieved nothing noteworthy, no matter how talent you are.
How many Ballon d'Ors for Ronaldo and Messi now? What a rivalry and we get to watch it live. Awesome.
It's almost irrelevant because there'a host of players that have won something. Maradona didn't win much, neither did Best.
I agree with this. Ronaldo is one of the best ever while Messi might be the GOAT.
5-4 sounds about fair.