Unless a true game changer becomes available à la Pogba, this squad is very difficult to improve on and Mourinho is absolutely right to prioritize some continuity to improve coherence and fluidity over marginal, if any improvement of personnel.
I think there is some substance to this transfer. No one could ever have predicted the form of these two CB's and should things have been as 'normal' we would be extremely light given Eric's injury and potentially being away for a month, equally Smalling injury and having not played for a month. With Shaw also being out meant Blind potentially having to also cover both CB and LB.Does anyone think it's likely we'll try again for him in the summer or is this it now?
That sounds plain silly, conspiracy theory lunatic rantings.Could it be that we've agreed a deal in principle for the summer for him and Semedo, and the new contract is simply to ward off other clubs from buying him?
Maybe, bar Eric I think the jury is out on all our CB's for different reasons. I suspect Smalling will be sold this summer as I'm not convinced Jose thinks he's good enough.Could it be that we've agreed a deal in principle for the summer for him and Semedo, and the new contract is simply to ward off other clubs from buying him?
I don't think either know really, BBC are always late on the scene with everything and just copy and paste from what they've seen on another website.Hmm, who to believe... Portuguese press... or the BBC
That sounds plain silly, conspiracy theory lunatic rantings.
Agent using United to get a new deal for his client. Or just yet another Benfica player linked to us with zero interest on our behalf.
So we have one of the best managers in the world and a squad that can hardly be improved on.Unless a true game changer becomes available à la Pogba, this squad is very difficult to improve on and Mourinho is absolutely right to prioritize some continuity to improve coherence and fluidity over marginal, if any improvement of personnel.
That's not true. It's not difficult to improve on players like Depay, Fellaini, Young, Lingard, Darmian, and Schneiderlin. And if we want to compare our squad to the very best teams in the world then there's huge room for improvement across the board.Unless a true game changer becomes available à la Pogba, this squad is very difficult to improve on and Mourinho is absolutely right to prioritize some continuity to improve coherence and fluidity over marginal, if any improvement of personnel.
The spine of our team were playing in a new league and we had a new manager this year.So we have one of the best managers in the world and a squad that can hardly be improved on.
Yet we are only nr 6 in the league.
Something does not add up for me.
Not true.I don't think either know really, BBC are always late on the scene with everything and just copy and paste from what they've seen on another website.
Chelsea had a new manager and a new squad and are strolling to the title this season. Pep is also new to the league and City has a comfortable lead over United. Ranieri was new to the league last year and won the title with Leicester City.The spine of our team were playing in a new league and we had a new manager this year.
We were always going to need to settle.
The bad results in the first few months were down to the consistently poor team selection accompanied with a formation that didn't work with the players that were played (Fellaini and Pogba in a midfield 2). Once Mourinho brought Carrick back into the mix, look at the results. We have a very strong squad that is arguably the strongest in the league, but not necessarily the strongest starting line up (especially the line ups at the start of the season.)So we have one of the best managers in the world and a squad that can hardly be improved on.
Yet we are only nr 6 in the league.
Something does not add up for me.
He had to get rid of the old mentality and style that we had. He rebuilt core of the team too. Now that team is settling down and we are winning, major attacking contributions are coming from the players Mourinho bought. With City for example, or Chelsea they already had the players settled and used to the league. Pep benefitted from Aguero, Bruyne, Silva etc already being there. He didn't have to get a new striker and creative players to settle in.Chelsea had a new manager and a new squad and are strolling to the title this season. Pep is also new to the league and City has a comfortable lead over United. Ranieri was new to the league last year and won the title with Leicester City.
I'am fecking tired of the this guy is new, he needs atleast 2 years probably 3 before we can expect to see results. It is the biggest bullshit argument in the world.
Only Lingard and Darmian still gets playing time out of the players mentioned. And they usually only start when there is injuries.That's not true. It's not difficult to improve on players like Depay, Fellaini, Young, Lingard, Darmian, and Schneiderlin. And if we want to compare our squad to the very best teams in the world then there's huge room for improvement across the board.
Doesn't matter, the rest are all still part of the squad. No doubt we have a strong foundation and the makings of a great team, but there's still a lot of work to be done. To say our squad is very difficult to improve on is nonsense.Only Lingard and Darmian still gets playing time out of the players mentioned. And they usually only start when there is injuries.
knew you'd come out with that. Conte's star men (Hazard/Costa) have been in the league for a while, playing in a system that suits them. Only Luiz and Alonso are 'new'. Its also reasonable to assume they've had more luck in certain games than we have.Chelsea had a new manager and a new squad and are strolling to the title this season. Pep is also new to the league and City has a comfortable lead over United. Ranieri was new to the league last year and won the title with Leicester City.
I'am fecking tired of the this guy is new, he needs atleast 2 years probably 3 before we can expect to see results. It is the biggest bullshit argument in the world.
I think that Lindelof was persuaded to sign a new contract by promising him that by doing so his former club will get its fair share. Unfortunately with such high minimum fee clause, United are suffering from cold feet. At that price we can actually attract people like Gimenez and Laporte rather then some kid whose playing in a league were Mangala and Rojo were absolute beasts.I have a feeling this is games being played by both clubs.
I think United were interested. I feel that they had an agreed fee with Benfica, then for some reason they wanted Lindelof to renew to drive up the price and try to make us shell out more than already agreed. As a result, we've said we aren't interested to try and make Benfica think twice. I think the clubs will come to an agreement and we'll sign him still.
Although, I could be entirely wrong and It could be we weren't interested and the Portuguese papers were doing their usual thing, or the above stands but we actually have ended our interest to pursue different players, maybe Gimenez?
It's all a bit weird really.
Sounds like the most logical scenario. I don't believe that we weren't interested. If we have given up, then I completely trust Mourinho on this, he has his sights set on another centre back, and whoever it is, if he's good enough for Mourinho he's good enough for me.I think that Lindelof was persuaded to sign a new contract by promising him that by doing so his former club will get its fair share. Unfortunately with such high minimum fee clause, United are suffering from cold feet. At that price we can actually attract people like Gimenez and Laporte rather then some kid whose playing in a league were Mangala and Rojo were absolute beasts.
What league was he in when he managed Chelsea?Chelsea had a new manager and a new squad and are strolling to the title this season. Pep is also new to the league and City has a comfortable lead over United. Ranieri was new to the league last year and won the title with Leicester City.
I'am fecking tired of the this guy is new, he needs atleast 2 years probably 3 before we can expect to see results. It is the biggest bullshit argument in the world.
Because what you are describing is football manager. In the real world, there are more factors than simply assembling top players with a top manager. Factors such as structure, mentality, cohesiveness than can only come from time and familiarity. The idea that players have a fixed level regardless of those factors around them is beyond ludicrous.So we have one of the best managers in the world and a squad that can hardly be improved on.
Yet we are only nr 6 in the league.
Something does not add up for me.
What you are talking about are squad players and in that case, I would also say it is difficult to improve on. Depay and Schneiderlin are actually not needed as they don't feature and therefore surplus to requirements in terms of numbers. The rest are indeed hard to improve on if you are looking at squad players. Barcelona's squad personnel includes world beaters like Denis Suarez, André Gomes, Paco Alcácer, Lucas Digne and Samuel Umtiti. Real's are the likes Fabio Coantrao, Danilo and Marco Asensio. The point is some time along the lines, fans started to get this idea that teams need 2 top players in each position to compete when looking back at history, that's not the case really. There is a good reason for that, top players start for their teams, they are not happy rotating. The majority of the top teams past and present had a core 14/15 players with the rest providing cover in case of a crisis.That's not true. It's not difficult to improve on players like Depay, Fellaini, Young, Lingard, Darmian, and Schneiderlin. And if we want to compare our squad to the very best teams in the world then there's huge room for improvement across the board.
This. I would add we need luck as well. With luck we would have about 40 points and be right in the mix.Because what you are describing is football manager. In the real world, there are more factors than simply assembling top players with a top manager. Factors such as structure, mentality, cohesiveness than can only come from time and familiarity. The idea that players have a fixed level regardless of those factors around them is beyond ludicrous.
I agree with the first paragraph but, the bolded part is a bit extreme.What you are talking about are squad players and in that case, I would also say it is difficult to improve on. Depay and Schneiderlin are actually not needed as they don't feature and therefore surplus to requirements in terms of numbers. The rest are indeed hard to improve on if you are looking at squad players. Barcelona's squad personnel includes world beaters like Denis Suarez, André Gomes, Paco Alcácer, Lucas Digne and Samuel Umtiti. Real's are the likes Fabio Coantrao, Danilo and Marco Asensio. The point is some time along the lines, fans started to get this idea that teams need 2 top players in each position to compete when looking back at history, that's not the case really. There is a good reason for that, top players start for their teams, they are not happy rotating. The majority of the top teams past and present had a core 14/15 players with the rest providing cover in case of a crisis.
Your second point is correct, although I would disagree with the term "huge" as I think it is the usual hyperboles when it comes to these discussion. Anyway, this was my point anyway, the difference between us and those teams is indeed those grade A players, game changers. The likes of Modric, Bale, Ronaldo, Neymar, Messi, Suarez and co. This is why I said unless those players become available, we are just marginally improving and that margin is not worth pursuing when you take into consideration that the improvement we might get out of continuity and therefore more coherence of personnel can be of a higher margin.
Fair enough, impossible to prove anyway so it is all about margins. I do however think that people greatly underestimate how much improvement can come out of familiarity and continuity of personnel and style. People say Fergie was amazing to get so much success without buying right, left and centre in his later years while conveninently forgetting the improvement he got year in year out out of simply keeping those players together, getting used to each other with each season. This applies to plenty of other teams where you see the same combinations and core every year. I do also think that people greatly exaggerate the levels of players. Apart from the undisputed greats, I really don't think there is much between players once you reach the levels of the top clubs. It is simply a case of players are influenced by outside factors and they can perform higher or lower than their level depending on those factors.I agree with the first paragraph but, the bolded part is a bit extreme.
Wenger-esque, evenI agree with the first paragraph but, the bolded part is a bit extreme.
I generally agree with all of this. The part I responded to seemed like the "only Messi and Ronaldo can improve us" type stuff we sometimes see here. I do think we are two to three good signings away.Fair enough, impossible to prove anyway so it is all about margins. I do however think that people greatly underestimate how much improvement can come out of familiarity and continuity of personnel and style. People say Fergie was amazing to get so much success without buying right, left and centre in his later years while conveninently forgetting the improvement he got year in year out out of simply keeping those players together, getting used to each other with each season. This applies to plenty of other teams where you see the same combinations and core every year. I do also think that people greatly exaggerate the levels of players. Apart from the undisputed greats, I really don't think there is much between players once you reach the levels of the top clubs. It is simply a case of players are influenced by outside factors and they can perform higher or lower than their level depending on those factors.
Messi and Ronaldo kind of make discussing players level annoying because if you call them top players implies that their level is normal. Let's put it this way, I think there are those two followed by maybe a dozen or so of top talent. After that I honestly don't think that there players who can improve a team on their own. I don't mean they're not top players, just not influential enough.I generally agree with all of this. The part I responded to seemed like the "only Messi and Ronaldo can improve us" type stuff we sometimes see here. I do think we are two to three good signings away.
Sometimes the right signing can improve the club even if they are not top players. Who thought adding Carrick in 06 would take us to a different level? Or Bayern adding Dante, Javi Martinez and Mario Mandžukić would take them to another level?Messi and Ronaldo kind of make discussing players level annoying because if you call them top players implies that their level is normal. Let's put it this way, I think there are those two followed by maybe a dozen or so of top talent. After that I honestly don't think that there players who can improve a team on their own. I don't mean they're not top players, just not influential enough.
I perfectly agree but in that case, my point is we at fans have absolutely no clue about that. From a distance, I am not buying any fan can actually tell that Dante would improve that team more than at least 2 dozens of defenders at the time. Only a manager and a team of experts know exactly the qualities needed for the way he wants to play and have the tools to evaluate whether said player has them. This is why I feel as fans apart from those obviously great players, we are just really guessing because we are either too frustrated at the level of the team or the simple usual fans muppetry.Sometimes the right signing can improve the club even if they are not top players. Who thought adding Carrick in 06 would take us to a different level? Or Bayern adding Dante, Javi Martinez and Mario Mandžukić would take them to another level?