When will people ever learn.
No games are ever won on paper, today could prove to be a huge point.
Gets so boring when comparing fixtures, Pool lost at home to a team who were bottom at home.
Anything can happen.
Top 4 race 2016/17
- Thread starter Yorkeontop
- Start date
No games are ever won on paper, today could prove to be a huge point.
Gets so boring when comparing fixtures, Pool lost at home to a team who were bottom at home.
Anything can happen.
Everyone is talking about us playing lots of the top 6 late in the season. I'd rather play them then than now. If we can go above them before then we'd be playing from a position of strength. They'd need the win whereas a draw would suit us. That is Mourinhos bread and butter. He knows how to set up not to lose and usually nicks a win from the opposition commuting too many players forward. See United v Chelsea with the Hazard goal. They are the type of games mourinho loves. Playing them now and needing to win where they realistically are happy with a point is not where mourinho excels. That's the main reason I believe we'll make top 4.
Don't you think we're too wasteful to even be close to them at that point? We would need to put away the teams below us with consistency and we aren't doing that.
What do you mean we aren't doing that?
Was we not on a mad winning run before these last 2 fixtures?
Hasn't all the top 6 sides been on similar runs?
It wasn't really 'mad'. It was a 6-game winning run in the league, something we also achieved under Van Gaal. My main point is that given our horrific record against the top 5, seeing as we're barely taking any points from our games against them, we really need to be ruthlessly winning against those below us. I don't think we've been doing that. Draws against West Ham at home, Burnley at home, Stoke at home and away, Everton away and a loss at Watford are hardly indications of consistency against lesser teams.
Given GD, United are effectively 6 points behind Spurs and effectively 5 behind Liverpool (who have a much easier fixture list than United for the remaining season). And after Arsenal very likely beat Burnley tomorrow, you'll be effectively 7 points behind them.
You've got to overtake at least one of these three teams if you are to meet your above-stated condition of being above them before you play them. So what makes you think that's more likely than not?
The fact arsenal have a crazy February where there is a distinct possibility of them dropping 7.
Combined with the fact if we get past hull midweek (we should), we won't play any top 6 team till late April.
Yes we draw too many but it's not unrealistic that we go on a run like we've just been on and are above arsenal and city when we play them.
Never said they haven't just said it's realistic that we could go on a similar run again.
This bit isn't aimed at just you but this place after a poor result is bonkers.
It seems like your whole premise is based on United not dropping any points from here on until you play top 6 teams in April, whilst those above you do drop a fair few points. It doesn't sound very realistic to me.
No not dropping any isn't going to happen. We need a 6 point swing to be above the team furthest from us which is yourselves. I don't think that's unrealistic to hope for. I'm sure bigger gaps have been chased down before and I'm sure it will happen again. The way we're playing currently I'm HOPING we can do it.
Liverpool have dropped 5 points v Sunderland and Swansea in 2 of their last 3 games.
This easy fixture narrative is clearly bullshit
Exactly.
Yet another poster analysing upcoming fixtures. It means absolutely nothing.
I'm pretty sure we were 10 points from 2nd a month ago. A lot can change in a few weeks.
Picking on 1 or 2 games doesn't mean that much. The fact is that, generally speaking, top-third teams are more likely to get a result against bottom-third teams than against teams in the middle third or other teams in the top third.
The only clear BS here is trying to argue that all fixtures are equally difficult.
So you would expect us to get as many points from playing the top 5 away as the bottom 5 at home?
Statistically the main reason we're where we are is we have drawn 90% of our games following Europa league games. We've made up a lot of ground in points since Europa break. My fear is most of our narrow wins return to being draws once we resume playing Thursday nights as Jm hardly rotates.
Also you together with Arsenal have some of the worst top 6 head to head numbers. Those are the best opportunity to majorly close the gaps and so far bar the Spurs result you haven't done so at all.
Liverpool = P5 - W3 - D2 - L0 - F9 - A6 - PTS 11 GD+3
Chelscum = P6 - W3 - D0 - L3 - F9 - A6 - PTS 9 GD evens
Tottenham = P6 - W2 - D2 - L2 - F7 - A5 - PTS 8 GD+2
Man C = P5 - W2 - D0 - L3 - F5 - A8 - PTS 6 GD-3
Arscum = P5 - W1 - D2 - L2 - F9 - A8 - PTS 5 GD+3
Man Utd = P5 - W1 - D2 - L2 - F4 - A8 - PTS 5 GD-4
Not to mention those results were mostly at home. You've still got City, Arsenal, and Spurs away.
It's not looking good. We don't seem to have the goals in us to get easy wins. And we also appear to be not making use of a period when we have been in good form and others slipping up.
At the moment we're just about in there with a 4/5 point gap. That has to come down to allow us the room for the odd really bad weekend which will happen, especially given our shit record against good teams.
At the moment we're just about in there with a 4/5 point gap. That has to come down to allow us the room for the odd really bad weekend which will happen, especially given our shit record against good teams.
Chelscum? Arscum? Shame.
Didn't harm Swansea !
lol I forgot I quoted it from a friend, you can see where his allegiances lie.
Not gonna change it though.
You should. Whilst your argument is solid your use of childish names lowers the quality of your posting.
I won't predict how final Top 4 would look like but I would like to forecast points range for all the top 6 teams .
Chelsea 80-86
Tottenham 70-76
Liverpool 69-75
Arsenal 72-78
Manchester City 68-74
Manchester United 68-74
That's the way I see the points total for all top 6 with couple of them missing the range by a point either side.
Chelsea 80-86
Tottenham 70-76
Liverpool 69-75
Arsenal 72-78
Manchester City 68-74
Manchester United 68-74
That's the way I see the points total for all top 6 with couple of them missing the range by a point either side.
What is the basis of this forecast? The points in remaining games seem awfully low.
Chelsea 34 from 17 games
spurs 30 from 16 games
dippers 30 from 16
arsenal 31 from 16
City 31 from 16
United 33 from 16
None of them is realistic.
Chelsea could easily ease off once they wrap up the title.
Tottenham recent form seem to leading lot of posters to overrate their actual level their current form is exception not the norm it's not sustainable and we also need to factor their late season collapses which happened despite them completely ignoring all cup competitions and this time I think Pochetinno would try to go deep in atleast one of the Cup Competition.
Liverpool seem to be slightly stuttering and their squad depth is questionable at best and their defence would always give other teams a chance and their attack also seems to slowing down so 30 points out of 16 matches is fairly reasonable.
As for the Arsenal when was the last time Arsenal touched 80 points more the things change more they remain same at Arsenal. Nothing further to add.
City defence is simply atrocious they panic every time they are attacked and after first 6 games where they had 18 points they have only accumulated 25 from next 16 games so 31 points from remaining games is about par.
United defence is solid and effective but our attack could prove to be our undoing so expecting title winning form with misfiring attack is highly unrealistic.
The last time we touched 80 points was in 2008. And yet we finished 3rd with 83 points. Reaching 80+ points would be considered a good improvement for us.
We've now played 7 of our top 6 mini-league matches, which is the most of all 6 clubs, Arsebal have only played 5.
Liverpool away in a couple of weeks is good for us and then we just have Arsenal and Utd left at home.
I said before WBA at home last week that if we could pick up 10 points from the next 5 games we would be in a very good position to make top 4:
WBA H - Won
City A - Drew
Sunderland A
Middlesboro H
Liverpool A
6 points from those 3 and we should be in a decent position.
Liverpool away in a couple of weeks is good for us and then we just have Arsenal and Utd left at home.
I said before WBA at home last week that if we could pick up 10 points from the next 5 games we would be in a very good position to make top 4:
WBA H - Won
City A - Drew
Sunderland A
Middlesboro H
Liverpool A
6 points from those 3 and we should be in a decent position.
I don't expect anything anymore, maybe 6 yeas ago, not now. In the last few seasons I've been to matches where we have been turned over by the 'weaker' teams, yet have beaten Arsenal and Liverpool.
I never go into a game thinking we will definitely win this one (like I used to), and this fascination people have with trying to predict results on games is pretty pointless - as so much can change.
Ask any Liverpool fan, their inability to consistently beat the smaller teams holds them back
Sunderland
Swansea
West Ham
Southampton
Burnley
All off the top of my head, even Klopp admitted he didn't know when the cup final mentality set in when every side played like its their last game.
Easy fixtures are clearly bullshit. Maybe you could forecast the next few games but the variables are too vast when looking at 16 fecking games down the road.
Just had a look in at the final 8 games of the season and it suddenly seems very interesting the way the tough fixtures were clogged together for some top teams. The end looks a little tough on our side
No one is talking about "easy fixtures". I'm saying that some fixtures are generally easier than others - it's a simple point that is self-evidently true, and your attempting to deny it is nothing short of laughable. Nor is the general rule disproved by your pointing to exceptions.
The fact is that United's remaining fixture list is more difficult than that faced by some of the 5 teams above you. Stick your head in the sand and deny it if you want.
You've been pushing this fixture list nonsense for weeks now. Before Liverpool ballsed it up v Sunderland and Swansea so using today as a starting point is ridiculous.
Bla bla bla easier this and that... Liverpool draw away to the worst side in the division, lose to Swansea at Anfield for the first time in their history.
Ignore all that... Starting from... Now!!!
Liverpool enjoy playing the top sides more than the bottom sides, that's been true for years now.
Find any Liverpool fan that would argue against it.
At the end of the day, what counts is the relative quality of teams.
Man Utd are a top 6 side but in my view, no better than that.
Top 4 they are not and for that reason will finish again outside it.
Have it your own away: playing Chelski at Stamford Bridge is no harder than playing Sunderland at home. Enjoy your delusions, but it won't stop the chickens returning home to roost.
At the end of the day what counts is how many points every side finishes with. 17 unbeaten with 20 out of 24 points is good enough for me.
Lets see where we are in a months time
Liverpool beat Chelsea away and drew to Sunderland away.
That example doesn't do you any favours
As I've already said, citing particular exceptions doesn't disprove the general rule. But this concept seems beyond you.
I didn't bring up those two sides. You did.
Think you need to add Everton to this discussion now or you going to wait till we leapfrog United? 