I am not his sides were entertaining, we're discussing about conversion rate, were we? Even in games his sides ain't convincing, they can ruthlessly take the few chances they could create & affect the final result. We create much more but extremely wasteful which is uncharacteristic of a Mourinho's sides.
Signs of Progress | Mourinho vs Van Gaal
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Shots at goal, attempts, efforts whatever you want to call it is one of the worst measures of a match. Every free kick that hits the wall is an attempt at goal, every corner that's swung in too close to the keeper is statistically an effort at goal.
Shots on target where you actually made the opposition keeper work is a far better statistic. We had 3 shots on target against West Brom and Foster made saves that you'd expect him to make, he didn't need to perform any miracles.
This is the problem
Although Ibwould like to see what qualifies as a chance as random no hope shots should not be included
I agree. Which is why I'm pleased we have more shots on target per game than any other team in the league under Mourinho.
I guess you were horrified when our average over the whole of last season was no better than the pathetic 3 shots on target against WBA, with 12 other teams averaging more than us?
This applies to the season under LVG to which means under him it was even worse
These are just numbers that we can't understand or correlate without the context
I'm personally thrilled we've had so many crosses - right up with the glory days under Moyes.
I think we all were horrified at times last season. We've already surpassed our shots on target figure from last season which is a positive. I do feel teams sitting so deep against us at home is inviting long range shots which they're obviously comfortable letting us have, we've all seen Blind, Rojo, Pogba try their luck from miles out, even if it hits the target it's not really a clear cut chance.
Not sure how we did it last season but our conversion rate was much higher at16.7% (Leicester top at 18%) compared to this season at 12.4%.
According to Squawka we've created the 2nd most chances per game in the league (13). Liverpool are top with 13.07, and 3rd is Spurs with 12.48.
Everybody can see there has been progress, but Jose needs to find goals and fast next year. It's the breaking of deep lying stubborn defences we've looked absolutely clueless with!
Perhaps with all the games coming so fast we've not been able to work on the training ground, I think that's a big issue.
Perhaps with all the games coming so fast we've not been able to work on the training ground, I think that's a big issue.
Odd thing to be thrilled about but to each their own.
Its a completely fixable problem imo - we just need more players other than Zlatan to contribute a goal here and there and we also need a few of our 25 or so woodwork shots to go in. That's currently the difference between 5th and 2nd.
I agree this but I'm sure you'd see similar comments on message boards of almost every club. It's been a big problem for Liverpool, Arsenal and City too. Mainly because it's just a difficult thing to do.
I also think games like Boro and West Brom (a gam where we were missing our most creative midfielder and prolific/creative striker) are a bit unusual. Ditto the three at the back experiment, which we've hopefully seen the back of.
We've generally been quite good at creating chances, even against parked buses. Putting them away, on the other hand...
But it's clearly a significant indication of our progress since Duncan Castles put it in an article to tell us how much we progressed which you then shared with us to tell us how much we've progressed.
I think that's the reason I feel so frustrated, our home performances don't appear bad because we're usually comfortable in defence, are controlling the game and it's more entertaining compared to the sh*t show at times last season.
But the cold, hard reality of it is we've our worst home record since we were relegated in '73-'74.
Dont forget the state of the squad they had to start with, the money spend and whether they were working on something for the long term.
Mourinho was welcomed because he wouldn't be working on a long term project for a new brand of better football, but because he would sort things out immediately and get United back to it's winning ways. He failed, despite spending a ridiculous amount of money. Even the luck that Zlatan was out of contract and wanted to play in the PL couldn't prevent failure, and it's hard to name more than 5 PL clubs that wouldn't have been around 5th place with Zlatan playing for them. Imagine LvG had stayed on after a terrible year almost everything went wrong, would anyone accept a third season from him like this season , even without Zlatan and 90 million for one player? He'd probably have done a lot better with lot less money, given the progress he made in his first season.
The main difference is that there is no alternative to Mourinho, no supposed guarantee for success is hiding in the curtains this time. If we admit that Mourinho has failed we have to admit that there is no easy fix, the best clubs in Europe were out of reach for some time anyway and a lot of fans were indeed 'living in the past'. If we admit that Mourinho never has been a better manager than Van Gaal to begin with, and allthough maybe once more suited to United, has lost his mojo since failing in Madrid and London, it looks even worse for the future. So we better cling on to the many positives like Zlatan, Zlatan, Zlatan and Ibrahimovic and keep hope alive with a future of more 100 million signings.
There's definitely been progress under Jose, anyone can see that ..you don't need blinding with stats. We are one world class finisher away from being serious contenders for the league next season, I'm sure Jose will buy the right player.
The football we've played this calendar year is not too great of an improvement on last season at all.
Our best football this season has been between October and December. So, basically, we're getting worse. Incidentally, this was when our schedule of games had been reduced. Right now, we've got games coming thick and fast and understandably the quality of football won't be as high.
With that said, much of what @Wumminator has said on the previous page has real credence. We're not remotely good enough and Mourinho hasn't hit anything like the expectations we require. Deep down he'll know it, too.
Our best football this season has been between October and December. So, basically, we're getting worse. Incidentally, this was when our schedule of games had been reduced. Right now, we've got games coming thick and fast and understandably the quality of football won't be as high.
With that said, much of what @Wumminator has said on the previous page has real credence. We're not remotely good enough and Mourinho hasn't hit anything like the expectations we require. Deep down he'll know it, too.
Agreed completely. Somehow our home record is worse than last season after 15 games. Intention to attack is there but we're just not converting and drawn too many games.
This season after 15 home games:
W: 6 D: 8 L: 1
Points: 26
GF: 20 (6 teams have scored fewer)
GA: 10
Scorers:
Zlatan: 6
Martial: 3
Mata: 3
Mkhitaryan: 2
Pogba: 2
Blind: 1
Rashford: 1
Rojo: 1
Smalling: 1
Last season after 15 home games:
W: 9 D: 4 L: 2
Points: 31
GF: 20 (7 teams have scored fewer, 2 other teams scored the same)
GA: 7
Scorers:
Martial: 5
Mata: 3
Rooney: 3
Herrera: 2
Lingard: 2
Rashford: 2
Blind: 1
Memphis: 1
Walker (OG): 1
Eh, he didn't. It was just one of a whole bunch of other stats that did demonstrate progress. But carry on. You seem to be plowing your own furrow here. Don't let me stop you.
Do you think he just included it because it was something we were number 1 in?
I was meaning more for next season if we end up back in it.
Yup. He'll grasp at any straws to blow smoke up Mourinho's arse. As I implied in the post where I shared his tweet.
Doesn't make all the other stats any less relevant to this thread, mind you.
You're spot on, he's just a propagaondist for José at this stage, maybe that gets him interviews and inside information which pays the bills but hard to call him a journalist now.
It's not a bad thing to be able to control some aspects of the press though, as many football fans are very fickle and their opinion is easily swayed by what they're told. Ferguson would ban journalists from press conferences for any minor indiscretion, which obviously massively effects their professional life if they can no longer cover the biggest club in the country. Mourinho is getting too wound up by questions which gives them their headline, he needs to just let the journalist know you won't entertain questions you don't like, and make him stay onside like Fergie and his "Well done Geoff" at the end of every interview where Fergie didn't get asked anything difficult.
Looking at fixtures and being realistic we're probably going to finish the season below 6th. (5th last year)
The football has deteriorated over the last two months, especially the home games which are now playing out like home games under van Gaal. So not only are the results poor but so now are the performances.
League Cup won but the FA Cup was won last year, meaning essentially unless we win the Europa League, somehow despite all the promise at the start of the year in actual fact not only are we NOT making progress, we're actually getting worse other than this completely pointless unbeaten league run.
Have to admit I'm surprised, genuinely thought we were making progress under Mourinho, wasn't expecting Top 4 but thought we'd be there abouts and that we would at least improve our goal scoring at home. No obvious in form players, likes of Pogba, Zlatan and Mkhitaryian back to being disappointing. The Football is complete trash and our defending looks shaky.
Basically WE HAVE to win the Europa League.
The football has deteriorated over the last two months, especially the home games which are now playing out like home games under van Gaal. So not only are the results poor but so now are the performances.
League Cup won but the FA Cup was won last year, meaning essentially unless we win the Europa League, somehow despite all the promise at the start of the year in actual fact not only are we NOT making progress, we're actually getting worse other than this completely pointless unbeaten league run.
Have to admit I'm surprised, genuinely thought we were making progress under Mourinho, wasn't expecting Top 4 but thought we'd be there abouts and that we would at least improve our goal scoring at home. No obvious in form players, likes of Pogba, Zlatan and Mkhitaryian back to being disappointing. The Football is complete trash and our defending looks shaky.
Basically WE HAVE to win the Europa League.
It's amazing to think we're unbeaten since October but still having a poor season, league wise.
I do have confidence in Mourinho that he'll turn us from a team that's difficult to beat to a team that actually beats other teams. The steel seems to be there, we need that spark in the final third!
I do have confidence in Mourinho that he'll turn us from a team that's difficult to beat to a team that actually beats other teams. The steel seems to be there, we need that spark in the final third!
Are we better off now than we were under luis vangaal ? The answer to this should determine mourinho's position.
I think 6 points better in term of results atm.
But, VG's home record was better last season I think. Funny though how I wish this season's home record were like that.
I am fine with half of all these shots on goal, creating chances stats away to get half of draws into wins for us.
Tells you that the football sport is all about results at the end. Even SAF admitted it.
Imagine if we had the same amount of chances last season, but with this season's conversion rates.
Relegated!Imagine if we had the same amount of chances last season, but with this season's conversion rates.
Conversely if we'd created this many chances last season with last season's conversion rate (wasn't Rashford 7 goals from 9 shots at one point) then we'd have probably won the treble!
The areas of progression and regression are clear for all to see.
We are creating more chances this season but have a much worse conversion rate when compared to last.
Also the football played this season has been much better (although it has dropped significantly since the Liverpool game)
I also think we're in a better place to move forward. A few more experienced clinical players and we could really begin to fly. Whereas how do you turn last seasons team around without replacing half the squad?
We are creating more chances this season but have a much worse conversion rate when compared to last.
Also the football played this season has been much better (although it has dropped significantly since the Liverpool game)
I also think we're in a better place to move forward. A few more experienced clinical players and we could really begin to fly. Whereas how do you turn last seasons team around without replacing half the squad?
So, if our conversion rates are so much lower and creation rates are so much higher, could this just be due to taking more shots/from longer range/tougher angles than the players were allowed to under LvG?
Wow, feck if we had more finishers in midfield or from wide we would be untouchable
Mata - has to be up there for players starting out wide to have scored for us this season, right?
Rashford - his immaturity shows. potential. bags of it. but can't bear the burden alone as we saw with Ibra out.
Martial - it's easy to forget how young he is after the debut season. This season he has taken all the bad parts of his game from last year and expounded upon them. How many PL goals does he have? So few that I can't remember.
Lingard - scored a few here and there, buzzes about nicely but lacks the 'whole package' feel of a winger that should be starting at United.
Mikhi - the best of the lot, but should be central as we've found.
Especially with Mata out, that's it. We need some actual consistent quality out wide. I keep thinking about how Di Maria under Mourinho might have fared in this team...first off, would he have stayed with the class signings of the summer, then would have been happy with life in Manchester...if yes, I can't help wondering whether that one piece to the puzzle would have been enough this season?
And every one of those efforts could have been hit earlier, harder, with a swerve, an inch to the right or left or lower and so go in instead of hitting the woodwork.
It all surmounts to the same thing: we need to improve our finishing. Play the same way with a 25% improvement in finishing and we romp the large in style.
League goals for them
Mata - 6 (1400 mins)
Rashford - 3 (1330 mins)
Martial - 3 (980 mins)
Mkhitaryan - 3 (990 mins)
Rooney - 2 (1000 mins)
Lingard - 1 (940 mins)
Total - 18
Ibrahimovic - 16
And some here actually hope Ibra leaves this summer
Than you so much for posting this.
It provides conclusive evidence of what many of us have been saying for months: Mourinho doesn't have the attacking quality required, that his methods and tactics produce great football but he cant physically score the goals himself, that with better finishing we'd probably be ahead of Chelsea this year.
It also proves that if the if we can significantly upgrade the finishing and decision making attributes in our striker department, either through improvement of current players and/or acquisition of genuine world class goal scorers, we will romp the league next year.
Lastly, it provides irrefutable data to Mourinho critics: He has already created a team delivering a marked improvement from last year, despite a shocking start when the team was adjusting to him. He will solve the one remaining but very important issue of finishing big chances with summer acquisitions. Not an old Ibrahimovic, but proven goal scorers that SAF used to sign like Cole, Ruud, Saha or Van Persie. Get a few of those in and we'll romp it next year.
Argue away if you must, but that is the end of debate as far as I'm concerned
We are very good at breaking of deep lying stubborn defences and creating enough chances. We just dont convert the chances.
They don't count as clear cut chances though. The clear cut chances are where a player should reasonably be expected to score. So 1 on 1s and the likes. Last year they all flew in whereas this year they bounce just wide or crash off the bar.
I think we will come good with a couple of high quality additions but making the CL would aid us so much in the transfer market in getting said players.
I don't think we are TBH. Look at WBA and Everton for instance. The amount of possession we had in those games, we made very little in terms of clear chances. We rely on percentage football hoping for a knock down in the box rather than crafting out a nice pass and move chance or dribbling passed a man and shooting etc.
I feel that if teams come to OT at the moment and park the bus, we are going to draw.
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