Regulus Arcturus Black
Full Member
To be fair... his national team.Probably the worst team he's played in since he was a teenager.
To be fair... his national team.Probably the worst team he's played in since he was a teenager.
For sure. But if he leaves we need even more than we need now.But we've still got plenty of good players and the last few seasons should show you that even without Champions league we can still attract real talent. We've also got maybe the best manager in the world who is supposed to get the most out of his players. There's plenty to be hopeful about next season with or without Zlatan.
But how much longer is that going to last? Top players are only coming to us still because we made Champions League last season, that won't carry on.But we've still got plenty of good players and the last few seasons should show you that even without Champions league we can still attract real talent. We've also got maybe the best manager in the world who is supposed to get the most out of his players. There's plenty to be hopeful about next season with or without Zlatan.
People also forget that Zlatan is part of the pull, I have serious doubts that we would have signed Pogba if Zlatan wasn't already a United player @Acole9But how much longer is that going to last? Top players are only coming to us still because we made Champions League last season, that won't carry on.
There might be some role reversal now. Ibrahimovic knows he only has a year or two left at the top, he's not going to want a repeat of this season (even if we do win the EL)... so he's pushing our board to back the manager with quality, and not rely so much on him.People also forget that Zlatan is part of the pull, I have serious doubts that we would have signed Pogba if Zlatan wasn't already a United player @Acole9
That moments coming imminently though anyway, if not this summer it'll be next year.For sure. But if he leaves we need even more than we need now.
Losing him gives Mourinho more work to do to get us challenging next year and we'll need to hope a potential new striker hits the ground running.
Who knows but I'm sure we can finish 5th and still get some top players this summer. The money and prestige is still there.But how much longer is that going to last? Top players are only coming to us still because we made Champions League last season, that won't carry on.
Not many proven to be consistent 20 goals a season players at the top level.Who knows but I'm sure we can finish 5th and still get some top players this summer. The money and prestige is still there.
It's not Griezmann or bust either. If we sign him that's probably the end of Mata. So yeah you'd be getting goals but you'd also be losing some (Mata) as well.
There are plenty of goals already there in this squad. Numerous players proven to be capable of double figures, some of them 20+.
Do the other big EPL clubs have two proven 20+ players in their squad?Not many proven to be consistent 20 goals a season players at the top level.
I can count Ibra, Mata and Mhiki. The later 2 are not consistent 20 goals a season players.
I think we need at least 2 proven 20 goals a season players in the squad tbh
Do any of them look like they can win the Champions League? That should be our long term aspiration when building a squad.Do the other big EPL clubs have two proven 20+ players in their squad?
I'm not sure what proven really means either. Mkhi did it just last season, Mata has done it before and we all know his eye for goal, Martial got 17 last season. That to me is enough to say there's players here with goals in them.
Well if we're framing this discussion in the long term with ECL in mind Zlatan will still need replacing. Right now we don't know what his plans are for September.Do any of them look like they can win the Champions League? That should be our long term aspiration when building a squad.
At the moment the manager doesn't want to rotate a 35 year old striker because he doesn't feel like he has a consistent proven scorer elsewhere in the side if he leaves him out.
Mata has double figures and I think Mhiki has 10 also which is fair given his slow start to the season and getting into the side. Martial is young and bound to be inconsistent.Well if we're framing this discussion in the long term with ECL in mind Zlatan will still need replacing. Right now we don't know what his plans are for September.
I agree Jose doesn't have another proven striker to rotate Zlatan with but he does have other goalscorers in his team. Which is the discussion here. The question is why aren't these guys doing what we know they can.
Imagine Mata in a team with a functioning attack, playing in his best position. Last time he did that he got 20.Mata has double figures and I think Mhiki has 10 also which is fair given his slow start to the season and getting into the side. Martial is young and bound to be inconsistent.
Infact Mata has scored 10 goals for United in his last 3 seasons, I.E he is scoring as expected. He got 20 once at Chelsea which was if you look at his record probably a freak season
I addressed the Mata one in an edit. He is capable yes, but I get the feeling he is more of a 10-15 goals a season player not 20, which his whole career suggests apart from that stand out season.Imagine Mata in a team with a functioning attack, playing in his best position. Last time he did that he got 20.
I'd agree Mata is probably more around the 15 mark. That would be enough though, certainly to get us in top four. If all our guys just hit two thirds of what they have previously we'd probably be challenging for top spot.I addressed the Mata one in an edit. He is capable yes, but I get the feeling he is more of a 10-15 goals a season player not 20, which his whole career suggests apart from that stand out season.
I think his output this season has been fair IMO. Same with Mhiki although I would have liked a little more but thats down to his poor start IMO
Had he remained fit till the end of the season there is no reason to expect he wouldn't have been able to get close to 15 and we still probably finish outside of the top 4.I'd agree Mata is probably more around the 15 mark. That would be enough though, certainly to get us in top four. If all our guys just hit two thirds of what they have previously we'd probably be challenging for top spot.
Yeah but if they all got somewhere close to what we know they can, then we'd definitely be in top four. Same goes for Pogba and Herrera.Had he remained fit till the end of the season there is no reason to expect he wouldn't have been able to get close to 15 and we still probably finish outside of the top 4.
The outputs of Rashford and Martial and also Lingard have been what has let us down. However those players are young/inexperienced and so you can expect the inconsistency.
EDIT: If we want to continue to develop those players, then we need to upgrade the likes of Mata with someone who can garuantee more goals (Greizzman or someone of that ilk) Also I would say we should really be upgrading Lingard also IMO
That would probably be the rationale behind pursuing GriezmannIf we are really serious about challenging for the league next season, plus move forward and build for the future, it is highly imperative that we find another capable forward to share the load and possibly take over from Zlatan.
Can't rely on a 36 year old to do all of it again, especially in a make or break season for the manager and the club.
You're missing the point. Mata is scoring at the rate he can/ we should expect IMO. The rest I said is down to inconsistency due to being young.Yeah but if they all got somewhere close to what we know they can, then we'd definitely be in top four. Same goes for Pogba and Herrera.
I'm surprised more aren't looking at why almost all of our players are scoring less than they can. Then also questioning would the same thing happened to Griezmann.
I think most would agree Mata, Mkhi, Pogba and Martial are capable of scoring more. So I disagree they're in line with what we can expect. If you actually play Mkhi or have Mata getting closer to goal on a more regular basis their figures would increase as they have before.You're missing the point. Mata is scoring at the rate he can/ we should expect IMO. The rest I said is down to inconsistency due to being young.
Herrera and Pogba is a different story. Pogba has 7 in all competitions, he been a little unlucky not to have more but then again why would we expect more than 10 goals when hes playing CM? He never got more than 10 at Juventus.
What I am saying is in the makeup of the squad there is not enough guaranteed goals. There are other issues too, poor finishing and lack of another serious option to Ibra.
But in essence the squad doesn't have enough goals in it if you remove Rooney and Memphis as options.
EDIT: BTW thats not me saying they should be options but those are 2 players who were in the squad at the start of the season who probably shouldn't have been (Rooney) where in place we needed another goal getter.
We should be looking to sign 2 attackers and keep Ibra IMO
Correct, just hope they get it done without too much hassle.That would probably be the rationale behind pursuing Griezmann
I don't disagree on Zlatan.I think most would agree Mata, Mkhi, Pogba and Martial are capable of scoring more. So I disagree they're in line with what we can expect. If you actually play Mkhi or have Mata getting closer to goal on a more regular basis their figures would increase as they have before.
Zlatan can be added to the list as well. Overall his stats are good but given his rep the league tally is just decent. Most would think Aguero has had an average season but he's only one off Zlatan.
I agree though we need another striker to rotate with Zlatan. A Rooney replacement essentially.
SameCorrect, just hope they get it done without too much hassle.
Sign a striker in the summer and Zlatan can replace Rooney as the experienced backup. Its not that hard. We signed Ibra with the view to give Rashford/Martial time to develop. The real issue was that we still also had Rooney on the books as a striker IMOMy main objection to signing Zlatan was that it continued the sticking plaster approach to our striking department. It's been a mess for years and here we are again in April not knowing who our striker will be next season.
If Zlatan is leaving you'd think we need to know now, giving enough time to scout and sign the guy who'll lead us back to the top.
If Zlatan stays won't we still need to buy another striker? Rooney being either useless or gone. How are we scouting a back up striker if we don't know who the main guy will be?
Then of course if Zlatan does stay are we sure he'll be good enough at 36. He's great for his age but we're dicing with father time here.
No other top club would operate like this. We've been doing it for about three years.
Exactly. We need an experienced in his prime world class striker, or as near as dammit to come in, but someone who has at least 5 years in them, and build around that. This is just an example, but a Lukaka/Bellotti, with a Chicarito as a second striker or option to play from the bench if we need to chase a game, or freshen it up. Add a Bernardo Silva type winger and the goals would come with the chances we create.My main objection to signing Zlatan was that it continued the sticking plaster approach to our striking department. It's been a mess for years and here we are again in April not knowing who our striker will be next season.
If Zlatan is leaving you'd think we need to know now, giving enough time to scout and sign the guy who'll lead us back to the top.
If Zlatan stays won't we still need to buy another striker? Rooney being either useless or gone. How are we scouting a back up striker if we don't know who the main guy will be?
Then of course if Zlatan does stay are we sure he'll be good enough at 36. He's great for his age but we're dicing with father time here.
No other top club would operate like this. We've been doing it for about three years.
If Zlatan is already unsure about staying you think he'd be happy sitting on the bench behind our new No.9? You've no chance.Sign a striker in the summer and Zlatan can replace Rooney as the experienced backup. Its not that hard. We signed Ibra with the view to give Rashford/Martial time to develop. The real issue was that we still also had Rooney on the books as a striker IMO
EDIT: Even if Ibra has 23 instead of 17 this season (so top scorer in the league) we still wouldn't be high enough up the table IMO we'd still be fighting for 4th
Then he can go, its his choice. If we get UCL then he will have a shot at winning it which I am sure he would take tbhIf Zlatan is already unsure about staying you think he'd be happy sitting on the bench behind our new No.9? You've no chance.
And he will if that's the case. Hence me saying the striker position is yet again a mess.Then he can go, its his choice. If we get UCL then he will have a shot at winning it which I am sure he would take tbh
Who should we have signed last summer? I think it was a smart choice to get Zlatan last summer tbh and I'm sure we would have been scouting all seasonAnd he will if that's the case. Hence me saying the striker position is yet again a mess.
I'm not sure, honestly I don't watch much football outside of United. Nor do I have a scouting network that covers the globe.Who should we have signed last summer? I think it was a smart choice to get Zlatan last summer tbh and I'm sure we would have been scouting all season
One important thing is, yes he did 17 last season. However there are many players going really strong in their first season. Its often said 2nd season thats when we are gonna see what we are made of. I think everyone who follows the games are a bit disapointed.Do the other big EPL clubs have two proven 20+ players in their squad?
I'm not sure what proven really means either. Mkhi did it just last season, Mata has done it before and we all know his eye for goal, Martial got 17 last season. That to me is enough to say there's players here with goals in them.
My whole argument is that this will be the situation next summer as well. Zlatan is going to leave this year or next.One important thing is, yes he did 17 last season. However there are many players going really strong in their first season. Its often said 2nd season thats when we are gonna see what we are made of. I think everyone who follows the games are a bit disapointed.
Do you think its a good idea starting the season with a guy(or 2)that never played in United, with 5 attackers that most likely wont get 20 goals between them?
feck me, that was at a time in which we had Giggs, Rooney, Ronaldo.At the time i was all for selling RVN and playing Saha. I heard the same arguments for RVN as I'm hearing for Zlatan right now, but for me they're the same scenario and i think it'd be the sane outcome whereby we'd get more from our attack as a whole if it isn't centred around one man.
As has been said plenty, to give Rashford and Martial timeMy whole argument is that this will be the situation next summer as well. Zlatan is going to leave this year or next.
What is the point in delaying this decision?