Zlatan Ibrahimovic Transfer Speculation

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Probably the worst team he's played in since he was a teenager.

To be fair... his national team.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

But we've still got plenty of good players and the last few seasons should show you that even without Champions league we can still attract real talent. We've also got maybe the best manager in the world who is supposed to get the most out of his players. There's plenty to be hopeful about next season with or without Zlatan.

For sure. But if he leaves we need even more than we need now.
Losing him gives Mourinho more work to do to get us challenging next year and we'll need to hope a potential new striker hits the ground running.

 

[Acole9]

But we've still got plenty of good players and the last few seasons should show you that even without Champions league we can still attract real talent. We've also got maybe the best manager in the world who is supposed to get the most out of his players. There's plenty to be hopeful about next season with or without Zlatan.

But how much longer is that going to last? Top players are only coming to us still because we made Champions League last season, that won't carry on.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

But how much longer is that going to last? Top players are only coming to us still because we made Champions League last season, that won't carry on.

People also forget that Zlatan is part of the pull, I have serious doubts that we would have signed Pogba if Zlatan wasn't already a United player @Acole9

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

People also forget that Zlatan is part of the pull, I have serious doubts that we would have signed Pogba if Zlatan wasn't already a United player @Acole9

There might be some role reversal now. Ibrahimovic knows he only has a year or two left at the top, he's not going to want a repeat of this season (even if we do win the EL)... so he's pushing our board to back the manager with quality, and not rely so much on him.

Griezman for example could be the league's top scorer next season, so even if Zlatan's numbers drop to say 20, he's likely to be a part of a winning team.

 

[Dobbs]

For sure. But if he leaves we need even more than we need now.
Losing him gives Mourinho more work to do to get us challenging next year and we'll need to hope a potential new striker hits the ground running.

That moments coming imminently though anyway, if not this summer it'll be next year.

Even if Zlatan stays we're still probably going to need another striker. I can't see Jose going into a season with just Zlatan and Rashford.

 

[Dobbs]

But how much longer is that going to last? Top players are only coming to us still because we made Champions League last season, that won't carry on.

Who knows but I'm sure we can finish 5th and still get some top players this summer. The money and prestige is still there.

It's not Griezmann or bust either. If we sign him that's probably the end of Mata. So yeah you'd be getting goals but you'd also be losing some (Mata) as well.

There are plenty of goals already there in this squad. Numerous players proven to be capable of double figures, some of them 20+.

 

[Cassidy]

Who knows but I'm sure we can finish 5th and still get some top players this summer. The money and prestige is still there.

It's not Griezmann or bust either. If we sign him that's probably the end of Mata. So yeah you'd be getting goals but you'd also be losing some (Mata) as well.

There are plenty of goals already there in this squad. Numerous players proven to be capable of double figures, some of them 20+.

Not many proven to be consistent 20 goals a season players at the top level.

I can count Ibra, Mata and Mhiki. The later 2 are not consistent 20 goals a season players.

I think we need at least 2 proven 20 goals a season players in the squad tbh

 

[Dobbs]

Not many proven to be consistent 20 goals a season players at the top level.

I can count Ibra, Mata and Mhiki. The later 2 are not consistent 20 goals a season players.

I think we need at least 2 proven 20 goals a season players in the squad tbh

Do the other big EPL clubs have two proven 20+ players in their squad?

I'm not sure what proven really means either. Mkhi did it just last season, Mata has done it before and we all know his eye for goal, Martial got 17 last season. That to me is enough to say there's players here with goals in them.

 

[Cassidy]

Do the other big EPL clubs have two proven 20+ players in their squad?

I'm not sure what proven really means either. Mkhi did it just last season, Mata has done it before and we all know his eye for goal, Martial got 17 last season. That to me is enough to say there's players here with goals in them.

Do any of them look like they can win the Champions League? That should be our long term aspiration when building a squad.

At the moment the manager doesn't want to rotate a 35 year old striker because he doesn't feel like he has a consistent proven scorer elsewhere in the side if he leaves him out.

 

[Dobbs]

Do any of them look like they can win the Champions League? That should be our long term aspiration when building a squad.

At the moment the manager doesn't want to rotate a 35 year old striker because he doesn't feel like he has a consistent proven scorer elsewhere in the side if he leaves him out.

Well if we're framing this discussion in the long term with ECL in mind Zlatan will still need replacing. Right now we don't know what his plans are for September.

I agree Jose doesn't have another proven striker to rotate Zlatan with but he does have other goalscorers in his team. Which is the discussion here. The question is why aren't these guys doing what we know they can.

 

[Cassidy]

Well if we're framing this discussion in the long term with ECL in mind Zlatan will still need replacing. Right now we don't know what his plans are for September.

I agree Jose doesn't have another proven striker to rotate Zlatan with but he does have other goalscorers in his team. Which is the discussion here. The question is why aren't these guys doing what we know they can.

Mata has double figures and I think Mhiki has 10 also which is fair given his slow start to the season and getting into the side. Martial is young and bound to be inconsistent.
Infact Mata has scored 10 goals for United in his last 3 seasons, I.E he is scoring as expected. He got 20 once at Chelsea which was, if you look at his record, probably a freak season

EDIT: There are 2 or maybe 3 players with lower goal counts than they should for their position in the squad.

Rashford and Martial, however those are 2 very young and inexperienced players.

EDIT: Mhikis record over the last 3 seasons. 13, 5, 23... erm

 

[Dobbs]

Mata has double figures and I think Mhiki has 10 also which is fair given his slow start to the season and getting into the side. Martial is young and bound to be inconsistent.
Infact Mata has scored 10 goals for United in his last 3 seasons, I.E he is scoring as expected. He got 20 once at Chelsea which was if you look at his record probably a freak season

Imagine Mata in a team with a functioning attack, playing in his best position. Last time he did that he got 20.

 

[Cassidy]

Imagine Mata in a team with a functioning attack, playing in his best position. Last time he did that he got 20.

I addressed the Mata one in an edit. He is capable yes, but I get the feeling he is more of a 10-15 goals a season player not 20, which his whole career suggests apart from that stand out season.
I think his output this season has been fair IMO. Same with Mhiki although I would have liked a little more but thats down to his poor start IMO

 

[Dobbs]

I addressed the Mata one in an edit. He is capable yes, but I get the feeling he is more of a 10-15 goals a season player not 20, which his whole career suggests apart from that stand out season.
I think his output this season has been fair IMO. Same with Mhiki although I would have liked a little more but thats down to his poor start IMO

I'd agree Mata is probably more around the 15 mark. That would be enough though, certainly to get us in top four. If all our guys just hit two thirds of what they have previously we'd probably be challenging for top spot.

 

[Raoul]

10 in 38 fixtures is pretty good for Mata. Can't really see him going much higher than that, especially as his best years are likely already behind him.

 

[Cassidy]

I'd agree Mata is probably more around the 15 mark. That would be enough though, certainly to get us in top four. If all our guys just hit two thirds of what they have previously we'd probably be challenging for top spot.

Had he remained fit till the end of the season there is no reason to expect he wouldn't have been able to get close to 15 and we still probably finish outside of the top 4.

The outputs of Rashford and Martial and also Lingard have been what has let us down. However those players are young/inexperienced and so you can expect the inconsistency.

EDIT: If we want to continue to develop those players, then we need to upgrade the likes of Mata with someone who can garuantee more goals (Greizzman or someone of that ilk) Also I would say we should really be upgrading Lingard also IMO

 

[Dobbs]

Had he remained fit till the end of the season there is no reason to expect he wouldn't have been able to get close to 15 and we still probably finish outside of the top 4.

The outputs of Rashford and Martial and also Lingard have been what has let us down. However those players are young/inexperienced and so you can expect the inconsistency.

EDIT: If we want to continue to develop those players, then we need to upgrade the likes of Mata with someone who can garuantee more goals (Greizzman or someone of that ilk) Also I would say we should really be upgrading Lingard also IMO

Yeah but if they all got somewhere close to what we know they can, then we'd definitely be in top four. Same goes for Pogba and Herrera.

I'm surprised more aren't looking at why almost all of our players are scoring less than they can. Then also questioning would the same thing happened to Griezmann.

 

[AN17]

If we are really serious about challenging for the league next season, plus move forward and build for the future, it is highly imperative that we find another capable forward to share the load and possibly take over from Zlatan.

Can't rely on a 36 year old to do all of it again, especially in a make or break season for the manager and the club.

 

[Raoul]

If we are really serious about challenging for the league next season, plus move forward and build for the future, it is highly imperative that we find another capable forward to share the load and possibly take over from Zlatan.

Can't rely on a 36 year old to do all of it again, especially in a make or break season for the manager and the club.

That would probably be the rationale behind pursuing Griezmann

 

[Cassidy]

Yeah but if they all got somewhere close to what we know they can, then we'd definitely be in top four. Same goes for Pogba and Herrera.

I'm surprised more aren't looking at why almost all of our players are scoring less than they can. Then also questioning would the same thing happened to Griezmann.

You're missing the point. Mata is scoring at the rate he can/ we should expect IMO. The rest I said is down to inconsistency due to being young.
Herrera and Pogba is a different story. Pogba has 7 in all competitions, he been a little unlucky not to have more but then again why would we expect more than 10 goals when hes playing CM? He never got more than 10 at Juventus.

What I am saying is in the makeup of the squad there is not enough guaranteed goals. There are other issues too, poor finishing and lack of another serious option to Ibra.
But in essence the squad doesn't have enough goals in it if you remove Rooney and Memphis as options.

EDIT: BTW thats not me saying they should be options but those are 2 players who were in the squad at the start of the season who probably shouldn't have been (Rooney) where in place we needed another goal getter.

We should be looking to sign 2 attackers and keep Ibra IMO

 

[Dobbs]

You're missing the point. Mata is scoring at the rate he can/ we should expect IMO. The rest I said is down to inconsistency due to being young.
Herrera and Pogba is a different story. Pogba has 7 in all competitions, he been a little unlucky not to have more but then again why would we expect more than 10 goals when hes playing CM? He never got more than 10 at Juventus.

What I am saying is in the makeup of the squad there is not enough guaranteed goals. There are other issues too, poor finishing and lack of another serious option to Ibra.
But in essence the squad doesn't have enough goals in it if you remove Rooney and Memphis as options.

EDIT: BTW thats not me saying they should be options but those are 2 players who were in the squad at the start of the season who probably shouldn't have been (Rooney) where in place we needed another goal getter.

We should be looking to sign 2 attackers and keep Ibra IMO

I think most would agree Mata, Mkhi, Pogba and Martial are capable of scoring more. So I disagree they're in line with what we can expect. If you actually play Mkhi or have Mata getting closer to goal on a more regular basis their figures would increase as they have before.

Zlatan can be added to the list as well. Overall his stats are good but given his rep the league tally is just decent. Most would think Aguero has had an average season but he's only one off Zlatan.

I agree though we need another striker to rotate with Zlatan. A Rooney replacement essentially.

 

[AN17]

That would probably be the rationale behind pursuing Griezmann

Correct, just hope they get it done without too much hassle.

 

[Cassidy]

I think most would agree Mata, Mkhi, Pogba and Martial are capable of scoring more. So I disagree they're in line with what we can expect. If you actually play Mkhi or have Mata getting closer to goal on a more regular basis their figures would increase as they have before.

Zlatan can be added to the list as well. Overall his stats are good but given his rep the league tally is just decent. Most would think Aguero has had an average season but he's only one off Zlatan.

I agree though we need another striker to rotate with Zlatan. A Rooney replacement essentially.

I don't disagree on Zlatan.
Martial I agree (but hes young and inexperienced) I expected a dip this season from him.
Mata - Disagree
Mhiki - Not sure, plus he had a bad start to his career here so think his output this season has been fair (10 goals)
Pogba - Never ever scored more than 10 goals in all comps and has to play with less attacking freedom in this side

 

[Cassidy]

Correct, just hope they get it done without too much hassle.

Same

 

[Dobbs]

My main objection to signing Zlatan was that it continued the sticking plaster approach to our striking department. It's been a mess for years and here we are again in April not knowing who our striker will be next season.

If Zlatan is leaving you'd think we need to know now, giving enough time to scout and sign the guy who'll lead us back to the top.

If Zlatan stays won't we still need to buy another striker? Rooney being either useless or gone. How are we scouting a back up striker if we don't know who the main guy will be?

Then of course if Zlatan does stay are we sure he'll be good enough at 36. He's great for his age but we're dicing with father time here.

No other top club would operate like this. We've been doing it for about three years.

 

[Cassidy]

My main objection to signing Zlatan was that it continued the sticking plaster approach to our striking department. It's been a mess for years and here we are again in April not knowing who our striker will be next season.

If Zlatan is leaving you'd think we need to know now, giving enough time to scout and sign the guy who'll lead us back to the top.

If Zlatan stays won't we still need to buy another striker? Rooney being either useless or gone. How are we scouting a back up striker if we don't know who the main guy will be?

Then of course if Zlatan does stay are we sure he'll be good enough at 36. He's great for his age but we're dicing with father time here.

No other top club would operate like this. We've been doing it for about three years.

Sign a striker in the summer and Zlatan can replace Rooney as the experienced backup. Its not that hard. We signed Ibra with the view to give Rashford/Martial time to develop. The real issue was that we still also had Rooney on the books as a striker IMO

EDIT: Even if Ibra has 23 instead of 17 this season (so top scorer in the league) we still wouldn't be high enough up the table IMO we'd still be fighting for 4th

 

[wolvored]

My main objection to signing Zlatan was that it continued the sticking plaster approach to our striking department. It's been a mess for years and here we are again in April not knowing who our striker will be next season.

If Zlatan is leaving you'd think we need to know now, giving enough time to scout and sign the guy who'll lead us back to the top.

If Zlatan stays won't we still need to buy another striker? Rooney being either useless or gone. How are we scouting a back up striker if we don't know who the main guy will be?

Then of course if Zlatan does stay are we sure he'll be good enough at 36. He's great for his age but we're dicing with father time here.

No other top club would operate like this. We've been doing it for about three years.

Exactly. We need an experienced in his prime world class striker, or as near as dammit to come in, but someone who has at least 5 years in them, and build around that. This is just an example, but a Lukaka/Bellotti, with a Chicarito as a second striker or option to play from the bench if we need to chase a game, or freshen it up. Add a Bernardo Silva type winger and the goals would come with the chances we create.

 

[Dobbs]

Sign a striker in the summer and Zlatan can replace Rooney as the experienced backup. Its not that hard. We signed Ibra with the view to give Rashford/Martial time to develop. The real issue was that we still also had Rooney on the books as a striker IMO

EDIT: Even if Ibra has 23 instead of 17 this season (so top scorer in the league) we still wouldn't be high enough up the table IMO we'd still be fighting for 4th

If Zlatan is already unsure about staying you think he'd be happy sitting on the bench behind our new No.9? You've no chance.

 

[Cassidy]

If Zlatan is already unsure about staying you think he'd be happy sitting on the bench behind our new No.9? You've no chance.

Then he can go, its his choice. If we get UCL then he will have a shot at winning it which I am sure he would take tbh

 

[Dobbs]

Then he can go, its his choice. If we get UCL then he will have a shot at winning it which I am sure he would take tbh

And he will if that's the case. Hence me saying the striker position is yet again a mess.

 

[Cassidy]

And he will if that's the case. Hence me saying the striker position is yet again a mess.

Who should we have signed last summer? I think it was a smart choice to get Zlatan last summer tbh and I'm sure we would have been scouting all season

 

[Raoul]

He's incentivized to stay as we are likely to be considerably better next year.

 

[Dobbs]

Who should we have signed last summer? I think it was a smart choice to get Zlatan last summer tbh and I'm sure we would have been scouting all season

I'm not sure, honestly I don't watch much football outside of United. Nor do I have a scouting network that covers the globe.

Scouting for who if the plan was/is for Zlatan to stay as first choice for another season?

Signing Zlatan just kicked the bucket down the road. You're just delaying a decision that has to be made sooner or later.

We're almost in the same position now as we were last summer.

 

[FattyFooty]

Do the other big EPL clubs have two proven 20+ players in their squad?

I'm not sure what proven really means either. Mkhi did it just last season, Mata has done it before and we all know his eye for goal, Martial got 17 last season. That to me is enough to say there's players here with goals in them.

One important thing is, yes he did 17 last season. However there are many players going really strong in their first season. Its often said 2nd season thats when we are gonna see what we are made of. I think everyone who follows the games are a bit disapointed.

Do you think its a good idea starting the season with a guy(or 2)that never played in United, with 5 attackers that most likely wont get 20 goals between them?

 

[pocco]

At the time i was all for selling RVN and playing Saha. I heard the same arguments for RVN as I'm hearing for Zlatan right now, but for me they're the same scenario and i think it'd be the sane outcome whereby we'd get more from our attack as a whole if it isn't centred around one man.

 

[Dobbs]

One important thing is, yes he did 17 last season. However there are many players going really strong in their first season. Its often said 2nd season thats when we are gonna see what we are made of. I think everyone who follows the games are a bit disapointed.

Do you think its a good idea starting the season with a guy(or 2)that never played in United, with 5 attackers that most likely wont get 20 goals between them?

My whole argument is that this will be the situation next summer as well. Zlatan is going to leave this year or next.

What is the point in delaying this decision?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

At the time i was all for selling RVN and playing Saha. I heard the same arguments for RVN as I'm hearing for Zlatan right now, but for me they're the same scenario and i think it'd be the sane outcome whereby we'd get more from our attack as a whole if it isn't centred around one man.

feck me, that was at a time in which we had Giggs, Rooney, Ronaldo.

Have you seen the state of our other current attackers @pocco or are just genuinely saying that if you stuck a fit Saha in this team we'd suddenly be awesome in attack? That Rashford & Lingard will suddenly become the new Giggs & Ronaldo?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I still can't get over that Saha comparison.

1. Saha was better than any current forward option we have, and we could see the benefits before we sold RVN because he was our player, we could see how well he was working with Giggs, Rooney & Ronaldo.

2. Who the feck do we have now who looks remotely capable (judging on this season, because that's what we could do with the RVN decision) of making the massive step Ronaldo did in Ruuds absense?

3. It's also bollox it was all down to Saha, much of it was just Ronaldo maturing into the best player in the World. It's a daft myth that won't die.

Oh yeah, and Saha only played 18 bloody league games!

And finally... our most breathtaking performance that season was the Roma 7-1, with Alan fecking Smith up front!

@pocco

 

[Cassidy]

My whole argument is that this will be the situation next summer as well. Zlatan is going to leave this year or next.

What is the point in delaying this decision?

As has been said plenty, to give Rashford and Martial time