General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%
  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%
  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%
  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%
  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%
  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%
  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%

  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .

FromTheBench

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The policing numbers made no difference to these attacks. Responding to them is the job of the police, preventing them is the job of the intelligence services.
Policing at the local level and awareness is usually a large part of intelligence gathering and services as well.
 

Classical Mechanic

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Not necessarily true. There's a case that having the police working closely with communities means they can get early information on people that are becoming radicalized. People are more likely to talk to the local 'bobby on the beat' than they are to contact a faceless hotline or huge government department.
Exactly. It is vital that we have more police on the ground.
 

ThierryHenry

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Interesting, rather than earth-shattering, take on what different margins of victory would mean for May.

https://www.ft.com/content/54546e9a-486d-11e7-a3f4-c742b9791d43
Thought this one from last week was good too;

https://www.ft.com/content/5c4e3720-45ed-11e7-8519-9f94ee97d996
(Google the headline of the article and open the link if anyone wants to read it)

The FT (as far as I can see) is the only serious paper still banging the anti-Brexit drum. Sadly no-one's listening.
 

altodevil

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David Cameron's former advisor:
 

altodevil

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But also:

Labour vote could increase, but might only be running up the score in safe seats.
 

ThierryHenry

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I've now taken Friday off to enjoy the fun of the day after. And to nurse my hangover from going out to watch the results come in.
 

Mr Pigeon

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Powerful speech from Corbyn, but it boils my piss that yet again he's being ignored by a lot of the press unless he makes a gaff.
 

Penna

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We voted in RL (postal) last week, as we won't get back to our town till Friday. Seems strange being in another country right now, as there's obviously nothing here to remind you that we're a couple of days away from a UK election.

We're full of gloom about it all. I can't recall feeling so pessimistic about the future in previous elections.
 

ThierryHenry

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But also:

Labour vote could increase, but might only be running up the score in safe seats.
180 sounds low, but Labour and non-Labour sources have highlighted this throughout the campaign.

Largest gains seem to be coming in cities where Labour are already strong, and in parts of the South where they're very weak. Midlands and the North still look very worrying for Labour.
 

dumbo

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But also:

Labour vote could increase, but might only be running up the score in safe seats.
Managing expectations and getting the vote out aside, I feel that this is a lot more likely than any of the polls suggestion Labour are a threat to the current government.

That said I was wrong about the last election, Brexit and Trump, but I believe them to be all of the same trend, and it still has some way to run.
 
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altodevil

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I think the problem with YouGov's model is that they are predicting a much higher youth turnout (fair enough), but then applying that evenly over constituencies, when really it is clustered in the university towns.
 

Oscie

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Powerful speech from Corbyn, but it boils my piss that yet again he's being ignored by a lot of the press unless he makes a gaff.

Some of that is his own doing. You can't really spend your entire leadership treating the press as the enemy, being largely unresponsive to requests for interviews etc, and then when election time comes expect positive coverage. You need a media strategy to woo elements of the media who can help get your message across in times like this. That's part of what being a leader should be able, being a good communicator. Until the past couple of weeks there's never seemed to be much appetite to talk to anyone unless they already agree.

Being poor in that sense as leader can be manageable if you've a team around you who handle the media well, but Corbyn's inner circle seems to view the media with hostility and mistrust too. Perhaps understandably but if you're in that position you need to accept the media is arguably the best way, still, of reaching a wider audience in a way that Tweets and attending rallies held in your own honour isn't going to.
 

NinjaFletch

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I think the problem with YouGov's model is that they are predicting a much higher youth turnout (fair enough), but then applying that evenly over constituencies, when really it is clustered in the university towns.
The problem is this election that it really isn't going to be. Lots of students have gone home and it will cause problems for MPs like Clive Lewis in Norwich South who is the sole Labour MP in a sea of blue in East Anglia based off the the student vote.
 

KM

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fecking hell, I just read about May's plan for Internet censoring on reddit. Fairly disastrous for you guys living in UK.

Interesting that many other European countries have resisted the urge to go for RW parties, here's hoping Britain does the same although signs are not promising.

What's the system there if one party doesn't get the full majority, I'm assuming they'll seek alliance with other parties to just get them over the line.
 

Mr Pigeon

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Some of that is his own doing. You can't really spend your entire leadership treating the press as the enemy, being largely unresponsive to requests for interviews etc, and then when election time comes expect positive coverage. You need a media strategy to woo elements of the media who can help get your message across in times like this. That's part of what being a leader should be able, being a good communicator. Until the past couple of weeks there's never seemed to be much appetite to talk to anyone unless they already agree.

Being poor in that sense as leader can be manageable if you've a team around you who handle the media well, but Corbyn's inner circle seems to view the media with hostility and mistrust too. Perhaps understandably but if you're in that position you need to accept the media is arguably the best way, still, of reaching a wider audience in a way that Tweets and attending rallies held in your own honour isn't going to.
That's fair enough imo, still makes it frustrating to see.
 

Pexbo

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Some of that is his own doing. You can't really spend your entire leadership treating the press as the enemy, being largely unresponsive to requests for interviews etc, and then when election time comes expect positive coverage. You need a media strategy to woo elements of the media who can help get your message across in times like this. That's part of what being a leader should be able, being a good communicator. Until the past couple of weeks there's never seemed to be much appetite to talk to anyone unless they already agree.

Being poor in that sense as leader can be manageable if you've a team around you who handle the media well, but Corbyn's inner circle seems to view the media with hostility and mistrust too. Perhaps understandably but if you're in that position you need to accept the media is arguably the best way, still, of reaching a wider audience in a way that Tweets and attending rallies held in your own honour isn't going to.
There is two reasons and two reasons alone as to why the press is ignoring his best moments and overplaying his worst moments.

1. Billionaire press owners protecting their own interests.

2. Journalists protecting their own interests thanks to Conservative pledge to scrap the Leveson 2 enquiry.


That's why he is "unelectable", not because the public won't like him or his policies but because the press are doing their absolute best (and worst) to make sure the Tories get back in.



The pledge to scrap Leveson 2 is sickening. How is that in the public interest?
 

Jippy

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Kentonio

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Nick 0208 Ldn

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The policing numbers made no difference to these attacks. Responding to them is the job of the police, preventing them is the job of the intelligence services.
Former Deputy Assistant Commissioner at the Met, Lord Paddock, said on LBC yesterday that he didn't think increased numbers would have altered the attacks. He was more concerned about any further cuts though, which even if there were any planned they'll now be quietly binned i imagine. And they'd already begun increasing the number of armed officers again IIRC.
 

Oscie

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Corbyn's bang on when he says we're going to have to look again at our relationship with Saudi Arabia. But that's a far more nuanced and therefore difficult narrative vs 'He opposed anti-terror legislation'. If we're thinking about what's more likely to cut through in the final few days of the campaign, there isn't really a contest.
 

montpelier

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A hung Parliament & a free MP (or rebellion) vote on Brexit might be very interesting.

Won't be holding my breath like...
 

Adisa

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I would be happy with any result that calls bullshit on May's "mandate".
 

Oscie

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I'd be flabbergasted if it's a hung parliament. If I had to call it now I'd say Tory majority 50-70.
 

Sweet Square

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Former Deputy Assistant Commissioner at the Met, Lord Paddock, said on LBC yesterday that he didn't think increased numbers would have altered the attacks. He was more concerned about any further cuts though, which even if there were any planned they'll now be quietly binned i imagine. And they'd already begun increasing the number of armed officers again IIRC.
Why ?

Also I think I'm right in saying that the lack of armed officers isn't the problem, it's everyday policing and intelligence gathering thats the issue.

Edit - Also worth looking at this interview

 
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Nick 0208 Ldn

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Is this where I point out that Labour is a democratic party and an individual's opinions don't matter in regards to the manifesto, even that of the leader? Corbyn is against nuclear weapons full stop, it's in there because the party isn't.
No, this is where i tell you that they answered on behalf of a prospective government, and were asked what they would seek as Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary. It is also quite possible for them to hinder and degrade a Trident renewal, while still classifying it one's manifesto as a deterrent.


A start would be the humility to know that the British PM can't "fix" an entire country, let alone one which has nothing to do with Britain or him.
But he has linked the attacks to Libya (the Tunisia beach massacre before that), not to mention the small matter of a migrant crisis. It is also the case the intelligence services have been talking to government about going back in for a few years at least.
Corbyn talks about instability and the dangers inherent to such, yet he doesn't go any further. An honest answer, would be that he seeks to bring about no tangible improvement directly.
 

Abizzz

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She manages to say both 'We can't be half in half out of Europe' and that she will fight hard to be half in half out of Europe within 3 mins.
 

berbatrick

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No, this is where i tell you that they answered on behalf of a prospective government, and were asked what they would seek as Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary. It is also quite possible for them to hinder and degrade a Trident renewal, while still classifying it one's manifesto as a deterrent.




But he has linked the attacks to Libya (the Tunisia beach massacre before that), not to mention the small matter of a migrant crisis. It is also the case the intelligence services have been talking to government about going back in for a few years at least.
Corbyn talks about instability and the dangers inherent to such, yet he doesn't go any further. An honest answer, would be that he seeks to bring about no tangible improvement directly.
He has linked these attacks to the instability caused by previous PMs who thought their crusades, unlike every previous one, would indeed "fix" the region.
To appropriate the logic of your favoured PM candidate, no intervention is better than bad intervention, and given recent history, almost every intervention in that region has gone wrong. Which was precisely the point you dodged with your comment- this is not a problem a British PM can fix, it is a Libyan problem worsened by British (and other) intervention.
But your last line is correct, and is an improvement over people with grand plans, that look at best stupid, at worst catastrophic in hindsight (and the same to anyone with foresight).
 

Nick 0208 Ldn

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In light of events, demands of the party, take your pick.


Also I think I'm right in saying that the lack of armed officers isn't the problem, it's everyday policing and intelligence gathering thats the issue.
We've got people here posting about the bobby on the beat, sight which was a bloody rarity even during the boom years of Labour. It's not even where the Met wants to have its people. Intelligence gathering is another matter, however, but one that neither of us knows the answer to. We still can't follow absolutely everybody on the watchlist.

There do need to be more armed officers away from our largest cities in my view, so as to bridge the gap in capability/response times. Parity it wont' be, however we can do better than at present.

Counter-extremism is the thorny one, yet possibly the most important as well. I've read suggestions by Muslims on this forum that government would shy away from (well except UKIP perhaps). On the one hand, a government might to deal with a rogue Imam/mosque; on other, such religious leaders represent the first line of defence.