Eric Dier | Poch: “He is an important player for us and the idea is not to sell him."

Do you want United to sign Eric Dier?


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WW Lynchpin
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This is the crux of it.

Rightly or wrongly, Mourinho doesn't want Fabinho. Like you have already said, if he did want him he'd have joined by now.

The unfashionable Matic and Dier seem the only options.

I'd go for Dier as he's younger, can play multiple positions and I don't think he's finished developing yet.
Dier is the logical choice, all things considered, only issue being Daniel freaking Levy and his unnatural loathing of our club. It's going take a £50m bid for Levy to even bat an eye lid.

Assuming the transfer goes ahead, which is hardly a forgone conclusion in itself, the final fee doesn't bare thinking about.
 

xplatformjedi

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There hasn't been an offer from United for him...and with Tuanzebe now playing holding mid I sure as heck don't want Dier.
 

izec

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Eric fecking Dier :lol:

I d rather have kept Schweinsteiger than dealing with Levy and getting rinsed for an above average player. Once he leaves Spurs, he will get exposed, so best for him to hide in that functioning team
 

Hammerfell

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Eric fecking Dier :lol:

I d rather have kept Schweinsteiger than dealing with Levy and getting rinsed for an above average player. Once he leaves Spurs, he will get exposed, so best for him to hide in that functioning team
Tell us how you really feel.
 

Eugenius

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I'm not really surprised if Jose is in for Dier. I think he wants a big physical destroyer at the base of midfield. Last season he started out Fellaini in that role until he realised he was a liability there.

But he basically wants a tall, strong, mobile, cynical player in there who can do a man marking job. Fits with how he used Matic, Mikel and Luiz in his last spell at Chelsea.
 

xplatformjedi

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But he basically wants a tall, strong, mobile, cynical player in there who can do a man marking job. Fits with how he used Matic, Mikel and Luiz in his last spell at Chelsea.
You just describe Tuanzebe, who played more at holding mid last season than Fosu Mensah did.

Feck Dier. He's a Spur.
 

Eugenius

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You just describe Tuanzebe, who played more at holding mid last season than Fosu Mensah did.

Feck Dier. He's a Spur.
That's probably what he saw in Tuanzebe as a DM, but not sure he has the cynical mentality Jose wants from his defenders. Look at the man marking job he asked Herrera to do on Hazard, requires a player with high tactical IQ.
 

red thru&thru

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That's probably what he saw in Tuanzebe as a DM, but not sure he has the cynical mentality Jose wants from his defenders. Look at the man marking job he asked Herrera to do on Hazard, requires a player with high tactical IQ.
I think you maybe referring to agression? The kid has the "tactical IQ". Just look at what he did on his full debut against Sanchez?! There is not on game he let us down in. But referring to agression, Matic is no Herrera/Kante either.

Like I posted earlier, I'm pretty positive Axel will be given his opportunity on the tour. Only he can throw it away...& I'm not expecting him too.
 

Maradona10

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People are talking out of their arse if they are real about playing TFM or Axel Tuanzebe in DM. Same people would blame the club for not getting a proper Dm in the window and how it ruined our season. Would you start TFM against madrid in the CL? Or against City in a crucial end of season clash? The simple answer is No, we need a dm and if jose wants a premier league proven player then so be it.
The last Dm/cm we bought from them turned out to be great so i am not too bothered.

People Bickering about Price need to understand how Amortization works and how just the transfer fee does not matter and does not show value for money.
 

xplatformjedi

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Tuanzebe is 19. He's not strong or at least he's not bulky enough to put his weight about effectively.

I disagree, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.


I mean...if you're NOT going to get Fabinho it seems to me Jose might be happy with the players he's got. I'm thinking Carrick plans to be the CDM when we need a cdm (4-3-3).

If we play a 4-2-3-1...no CDM needed and Carrick/Herrera/Fellaini are going to take the spot beside Pogba.

We're not getting Dier. He's a Spur.
 

Oscie

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The whole assuming a young, largely inexperienced at a decent level, player will automatically be as good as or better than identified transfer targets is persistently annoying. I know the Class of 92 happened it's as if people think naming a player from the reserves to be promoted over a signing makes them a better fan.

Our record of promoting from within post Class of 92 isn't as great as I think people believe it is. Dier is established, experienced and attracting interest. I don't get the comparison to Tuanzebe at all beyond 'I'll see your transfer target with someone from the reserve team because #TopRed' or something.
 

xplatformjedi

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The whole assuming a young, largely inexperienced at a decent level, player will automatically be as good as or better than identified transfer targets is persistently annoying. I know the Class of 92 happened it's as if people think naming a player from the reserves to be promoted over a signing makes them a better fan.

Our record of promoting from within post Class of 92 isn't as great as I think people believe it is. Dier is established, experienced and attracting interest. I don't get the comparison to Tuanzebe at all beyond 'I'll see your transfer target with someone from the reserve team because #TopRed' or something.
You're post makes a lot of sense.

Mark my words...

ERIC DIER WILL NOT BE A RED THIS YEAR. And he shouldn't be. If the Spurs are willing to part with him then I don't want him.
 

Nick7

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You're post makes a lot of sense.

Mark my words...

ERIC DIER WILL NOT BE A RED THIS YEAR. And he shouldn't be. If the Spurs are willing to part with him then I don't want him.
:lol: what in God's name? We might as well not sign anyone if that's the case.
 

Mainoldo

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Unless they are the reincarnation of Mascherano. No DM is ready to play for us at 18.
 

Mr Smith

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Eric fecking Dier :lol:

I d rather have kept Schweinsteiger than dealing with Levy and getting rinsed for an above average player. Once he leaves Spurs, he will get exposed, so best for him to hide in that functioning team
Odd comment given that Spurs play much more expansive football than we do...
 

Dante

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Mourinho is a master as getting limited players to fit his system. Dier doesn't need to be able to dribble or pick out a 40 yard through pass. Makalele couldn't either. His role would be about fulfilling a particular set of duties in front of the defence. That's all we should be judging him on. If he's the best at doing the 4 or 5 things that Mourinho wants in that position, we should pay whatever the hell it takes.

Fabinho might be a better overall player, but he's probably not as good at plugging gaps and winning aerial duels. Those are the criteria to judge our next holding player on. And the reasons why neither Blind nor Schneiderlin will play there next season (but why Carrick will).
 

ike

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People are talking out of their arse if they are real about playing TFM or Axel Tuanzebe in DM. Same people would blame the club for not getting a proper Dm in the window and how it ruined our season. Would you start TFM against madrid in the CL? Or against City in a crucial end of season clash? The simple answer is No, we need a dm and if jose wants a premier league proven player then so be it.
The last Dm/cm we bought from them turned out to be great so i am not too bothered.
And that's why we'd play Carrick in games against madrid in the CL Or City in a crucial end of season clash. :D
 

Jam

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I think he's the best option that we have been linked with.

He'd give us the flexibility to play a 352 (especially if Perisic is bought for left wing back) with him stepping forward into midfield when we have possession and back into a solid back three when we don't.

He's also more than capable of anchoring the midfield.

Dier and Matic just seem such boring signings but both would do a good job.
This is the holding midfielder role we're talking about though; you're not going to get a glamorous player in that role.

You might bring up some historic names but a lot of those will be from the age of two centre midfielders so they're all action whereas the game has evolved to a three midfield system generally.

The 'exciting' side of these signings would be that they allow the rest of our players to thrive - we've got the bones of a great squad however it just needs a couple more pieces to complete the puzzle.

We need someone who'll offer cover for the defence and will stay back allowing Pogba and Herrera the freedom to use their attacking abilities with less worrying about being caught too far forward. The reassurance of a sturdy holding midfield behind them will improve their confidence going forward too, less worry and more focus on what they can do.

As much as I would like a holding midfield with the passing ability of Scholes I'd be more than happy with someone who is positionally sound and an effective tackler who can play a safe pass to a creative player. Someone who can intercept or tackle to break up attacks and recycle possession - someone who won't leave gaping holes in front of the defence especially when a lot of teams play with a ten so that space needs to be occupied. An athletic player who can cover ground quickly to boot.

Not every player has to be an artist and even artists needs sturdy equipment else they'd fail more often than they'll succeed.

On the issue of who the three most common names are Dier, Matic and Fabinho. If it were me I'd go like Fabinho > Dier > Matic taking into considering ability and what we need, age and price. Fabinho would be the best option of those three since he's at a good age and I believe has better ability than the other two and won't totally break the bank for that higher ability with the bonus being he's positionally flexible and can player right back if needed. Dier is young and Premier League proven, technical ability wise he's not as good as Fabinho but for the role we need him for he's very suitable but the price would be a sticking point and I'd rather not have to negotiate with Levy - it'd potentially cost more for a lesser player in Dier. Matic is very experienced and again Premier League proven but he's the slowest and oldest of the three but has the bonus of playing under Mourinho before so has the manager's trust and likewise he understands Mourinho's coaching and style.

Ultimately I'd be 'happy' with any of the three since they'll all fulfill a role we need. Even with Matic, I'd rather sign him as a last resort than go into the season without that midfielder, he's still a good player who will do an effective job.
 

gr3yham3

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The hate for Dier is incredible here, makes me wonder if people have actually seen him. I'd love it if we got him but Levy will probably be a dick.
I don't think it is hate, just that he is way overrated for the prices thrown around. Has he won anything? Has he been more outstanding than Kante or even Herrera? Seems to be another O'Shea to me.

The "want want want" post only made things worse of course.
 

gr3yham3

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To be fair though, who else would we get for value?
The rumoured 50m pounds and up for Dier is no way "value". Other options like Fabinho, Romeu, N'zonzi,Weigl, N'didi should cost less and do the same or even better job. I watched a lot of Spurs last season and nothing about Dier impressed me. Only remember his "see you soon"remark about Herrera, and then promptly lost that game at Old Trafford too.
 

LeftyBlaster

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The rumoured 50m pounds and up for Dier is no way "value". Other options like Fabinho, Romeu, N'zonzi,Weigl, N'didi should cost less and do the same or even better job. I watched a lot of Spurs last season and nothing about Dier impressed me. Only remember his "see you soon"remark about Herrera, and then promptly lost that game at Old Trafford too.
Do you seriously rate N'zonzi or Romeu above Dier? I haven't seen much of Weigl so I can't judge. Fabinho looks the most glamourous of the lot but it doesn't look like he's signing.
 

gr3yham3

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Do you seriously rate N'zonzi or Romeu above Dier? I haven't seen much of Weigl so I can't judge. Fabinho looks the most glamourous of the lot but it doesn't look like he's signing.
Not above him, but certainly they can offer what he can offer - decent pace, physicality, height, defensive cover. Weigl does not have the phyiscal aspect, but offers the calmness and distribution of Carrick. Fabinho has title-winning experience and was in the UCL semis just a while back, not to mention that he wants to perform well to get into the Brazil NT for the World Cup. Dier, like the rest of the Spurs team, has won nothing of note, were knocked out of Europe at both competitions pretty early, and I think they are made to look better through the way they play. Take them out of the team and system they are playing in, and we might see different players. Lastly, I may be biased, but I am not entirely convinced of this generation of English players - none of them have impressed me, as compared to the Gerrard, Lampard, Rio, Rooney days.
 

NoPace

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Do you seriously rate N'zonzi or Romeu above Dier? I haven't seen much of Weigl so I can't judge. Fabinho looks the most glamourous of the lot but it doesn't look like he's signing.
N'Zonzi is better than Dier. He's much older, but he's straight up better right now.

Weigl is definitely a better passer and dribbler and in possession, though it wouldn't be shocking if he might have some trouble in the Prem his first season at his age and position, though long-term I think he could be our Busquets helping us win midfield battles from the base for 10 years.
 

Sammyjunn

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The hate for Dier is incredible here, makes me wonder if people have actually seen him. I'd love it if we got him but Levy will probably be a dick.
Nobody hates him, he's just above average and his price tag is out of proportion. He's a bit of a cnuty player though, certain statements and tackles he makes can make you question his morality.
 

ManuMou

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Whats with this whole story of Jose signing Dier ?

What so special about him ? He is so "average Joe"

Just doesn't sound right to me at all. Plus the reported fee seems massive !!

At least there are still some argument to be made for Perisic !
 
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barmyarmy

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Found an interesting article on Dier:

http://blog.betbright.com/football/eric-dier-is-football-plumbing/

In Hollywood, there’s a concept known as scene plumbing. It refers to the role of a particular type of actor who, rather than being a leading man or woman, is employed for continuity purposes. Grease in a scene’s mechanics, if you will. On the basis that films and television programs have to pace themselves and can’t just be a series of a high-spots, these actors are essential to pacing. They’re usually versatile and adaptable and, fundamentally, are there to allow the stars to shine. Gunther in Friends, maybe, or KACL’s various station managers in Frasier.

Football doesn’t really have a term for its equivalent, but they definitely exist – and Eric Dier is an example of one.

Currently, Dier is the subject of transfer speculation. Manchester United are rumoured to be interested in him and, apparently, Tottenham have set an asking price of around £50m. United’s fans have balked at that; even with recent inflation considered, that seems an awful lot of money for a player who isn’t individually spectacular.

In their defence, it does seem slightly out of step with their club’s recent movements. Jose Mourinho shows little interest in organic development and United, while still in the business of winning, are no longer solely motivated by sporting success. Both appear aligned on this issue: they want stars of the game, players who glint on the pitch and draw on the balance sheet.

Dier is not that. He certainly wouldn’t be the kind of vanity signing that has become the club’s standard in recent seasons.

And it is easy to overlook his value. At Tottenham, his first-team worth has been defined by a rare ability to play a variety of positions to a high, unwavering standard. Under Mauricio Pochettino, he has been employed as right-sided full-back, a deep-lying central midfielder, and a centre-half in both a four and three-man defence. Adaptable players are nothing new, but – by today’s standards – it’s rare to find one capable of performing to such a high level in such a breadth of roles.

Flexibility is a skill. Often, players like Dier are dismissed as “jacks of all trades, but masters of none”, but that description would do him an egregious disservice. Rather than being someone who simply fills a vacant space, his skillset has proven eclectic enough for him to be able to bring something unique to every position he’s played, be it his delivery at full-back, his broader-than-assumed passing range and ball-winning in midfield, or his defensive discipline alongside Toby Alderweireld and Jan Vertonghen.

At the time of writing, no other player in the Premier League offers the same flexibility. Others may operate in more than one position, but always with some kind of opportunity cost. When you consider also that Tottenham are prone to shifting their shape several times within the same game, a player like Dier – who is able to flow into the tactical fractures which occur as a result of those tweaks – is really worth his weight in gold. Scarcity implies value and, within the context of the Premier League, he is a footballing unicorn.

In fact, on the basis that £50m now only buys a very good rather than an outstanding player – and that such a fee is typically attached to one capable only of performing one role – Levy’s valuation of Dier is very reasonable at a time when squad dexterity is at a premium and formations are as fluid in this country as they’ve ever been. Alongside Christian Eriksen, Mousa Dembele or Harry Kane, someone of his profile will always struggle to stand out, but expecting him to do so is a mistake; he’s picked by Spurs to accentuate the value of those players, not to challenge them for aesthetic appeal.

That multiplying effect has shown itself all over the pitch. When part of a back-three, for instance, his ability to cover wider areas from the right of the trio allows Toby Alderweireld to remain stable and central at the base of the defence, while also lessening the defensive responsibility carried by either Kyle Walker or Kieran Trippier. Neither is overly-reliable in one-on-one situations and so that layer of protection is crucial to both their effect on a game and the perception of them as players.

It’s not a coincidence either that, when used in midfield, Dier’s presence has allowed Victor Wanyama to be far more aggressive with the ball and Dembele to operate further beyond the halfway line. His distribution is reliable and occasionally incisive too, but he has also shown a tremendous capacity for tactical comprehension; he seems to have been educated to a far greater level than the average British player and that’s visible in his anticipation. It’s a slightly dated stereotype, but while many of the footballers developed in this country are capable of following instruction, most appear to struggle in read-and-react situations or any scenario in which they’re asked to improvise. Dier doesn’t. He has the capacity to problem-solve which so many of his British contemporaries lack – and that’s likely the trait which has animated his move from the fringes of the Sporting Lisbon squad to the top of the Premier League in just three years.

To call him a plumbing player may admittedly by slightly derisory. Instead, maybe Dier is more of a blank Scrabble tile? Someone whose individual worth is slightly vague, but whose importance rises exponentially when combined with more obviously useful pieces. To question his value is to underestimate his range of functions and, ultimately, to do that is to misunderstand the forces which bind football teams.
 

AKDevil

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Found an interesting article on Dier:

http://blog.betbright.com/football/eric-dier-is-football-plumbing/

In Hollywood, there’s a concept known as scene plumbing. It refers to the role of a particular type of actor who, rather than being a leading man or woman, is employed for continuity purposes. Grease in a scene’s mechanics, if you will. On the basis that films and television programs have to pace themselves and can’t just be a series of a high-spots, these actors are essential to pacing. They’re usually versatile and adaptable and, fundamentally, are there to allow the stars to shine. Gunther in Friends, maybe, or KACL’s various station managers in Frasier.

Football doesn’t really have a term for its equivalent, but they definitely exist – and Eric Dier is an example of one.

Currently, Dier is the subject of transfer speculation. Manchester United are rumoured to be interested in him and, apparently, Tottenham have set an asking price of around £50m. United’s fans have balked at that; even with recent inflation considered, that seems an awful lot of money for a player who isn’t individually spectacular.

In their defence, it does seem slightly out of step with their club’s recent movements. Jose Mourinho shows little interest in organic development and United, while still in the business of winning, are no longer solely motivated by sporting success. Both appear aligned on this issue: they want stars of the game, players who glint on the pitch and draw on the balance sheet.

Dier is not that. He certainly wouldn’t be the kind of vanity signing that has become the club’s standard in recent seasons.

And it is easy to overlook his value. At Tottenham, his first-team worth has been defined by a rare ability to play a variety of positions to a high, unwavering standard. Under Mauricio Pochettino, he has been employed as right-sided full-back, a deep-lying central midfielder, and a centre-half in both a four and three-man defence. Adaptable players are nothing new, but – by today’s standards – it’s rare to find one capable of performing to such a high level in such a breadth of roles.

Flexibility is a skill. Often, players like Dier are dismissed as “jacks of all trades, but masters of none”, but that description would do him an egregious disservice. Rather than being someone who simply fills a vacant space, his skillset has proven eclectic enough for him to be able to bring something unique to every position he’s played, be it his delivery at full-back, his broader-than-assumed passing range and ball-winning in midfield, or his defensive discipline alongside Toby Alderweireld and Jan Vertonghen.

At the time of writing, no other player in the Premier League offers the same flexibility. Others may operate in more than one position, but always with some kind of opportunity cost. When you consider also that Tottenham are prone to shifting their shape several times within the same game, a player like Dier – who is able to flow into the tactical fractures which occur as a result of those tweaks – is really worth his weight in gold. Scarcity implies value and, within the context of the Premier League, he is a footballing unicorn.

In fact, on the basis that £50m now only buys a very good rather than an outstanding player – and that such a fee is typically attached to one capable only of performing one role – Levy’s valuation of Dier is very reasonable at a time when squad dexterity is at a premium and formations are as fluid in this country as they’ve ever been. Alongside Christian Eriksen, Mousa Dembele or Harry Kane, someone of his profile will always struggle to stand out, but expecting him to do so is a mistake; he’s picked by Spurs to accentuate the value of those players, not to challenge them for aesthetic appeal.

That multiplying effect has shown itself all over the pitch. When part of a back-three, for instance, his ability to cover wider areas from the right of the trio allows Toby Alderweireld to remain stable and central at the base of the defence, while also lessening the defensive responsibility carried by either Kyle Walker or Kieran Trippier. Neither is overly-reliable in one-on-one situations and so that layer of protection is crucial to both their effect on a game and the perception of them as players.

It’s not a coincidence either that, when used in midfield, Dier’s presence has allowed Victor Wanyama to be far more aggressive with the ball and Dembele to operate further beyond the halfway line. His distribution is reliable and occasionally incisive too, but he has also shown a tremendous capacity for tactical comprehension; he seems to have been educated to a far greater level than the average British player and that’s visible in his anticipation. It’s a slightly dated stereotype, but while many of the footballers developed in this country are capable of following instruction, most appear to struggle in read-and-react situations or any scenario in which they’re asked to improvise. Dier doesn’t. He has the capacity to problem-solve which so many of his British contemporaries lack – and that’s likely the trait which has animated his move from the fringes of the Sporting Lisbon squad to the top of the Premier League in just three years.

To call him a plumbing player may admittedly by slightly derisory. Instead, maybe Dier is more of a blank Scrabble tile? Someone whose individual worth is slightly vague, but whose importance rises exponentially when combined with more obviously useful pieces. To question his value is to underestimate his range of functions and, ultimately, to do that is to misunderstand the forces which bind football teams.
Very interesting piece. The bit highlighting how many positions he could cover for the price is also a good one. I'm intrigued about this deal and the interest. Like the player and also, importantly, his attitude and what he says. Like Lukaku it's the right things and suggests he has the ideal attitude for a club like ours. He's got a bit of personality and character, doesn't take s***, heart on sleeve and it reminds me a little of Roy Keane in that sense. In modern day football I think that's important as the game is becoming weaker and increasingly lacking players who seem to care. There is so much smoke about this one but at same time can't see Levy selling plus big interest this summer has proved to be smokescreens.
 

The red panther

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You don't pay £50m for a player because he can cover many positions.

If we get someone in that price range he has to be a quality upgrade over what we currently have. Dier would give us depth in the midfield but he is not a definite quality upgrade. Imo he is not what we need and he is not worth £50m at all.

There is the english nationality argument but he does not even qualify as homegrown.

If you consider that is Levy we will have to be dealing with to get him, I'd say don't even bother, he is not worth the trouble, we don't need him and he definitely won't be worth the money we would have to pay for him.
 

RC89

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I personally like the player as he's strong defensively and very versatile. I actually see him as a healthy, less rash version of Phil Jones.

In my opinion his fair value is probably between 25-30 million pounds. Spurs would easily want twice that for him and given he's a somewhat limited player in his abilities I think we would be wise to pursue other defensive midfielders.
The fact he's English, Prem proven, young and already playing for a CL team, I think you can expect to pay ~45m.

I'd say he's actually worth around 35m.
 

Oscie

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Sentiment was pretty similarly united against Carrick too. People didn't rate him, thought he was average, a lot of money (at the time) to spend on someone like that when there were more glamorous options available. Not necessarily comparing the two but there is a bit of doesnthaveafancynameitis about the objection to us being linked with him