Exactly my feelings
Lingard: RedCafe Enemy #1?
- Thread starter horsechoker
- Start date
Well I mean you took him a tad bit too literally.
You don't remember the WBA cross! It was the talk of the Lingard thread last season. Thought it would win him the Ballon D'Or st one point.
I like Lingard a lot. That positive attitude that oozes out. His high work rate, his movement, his confidence in the big games, his pace and the fact that he is an academy lad. I don't think he should always be a starter but a squad role for him is not a bad idea at all.
The thing is that talent is over rated and attitude trumps it every time. Lingard may not be the most talented of players but he definitely puts in the shift and probably follows his manager's instructions to the letter.
The thing is that talent is over rated and attitude trumps it every time. Lingard may not be the most talented of players but he definitely puts in the shift and probably follows his manager's instructions to the letter.
Still, multiple pages and no one has really addressed why the criticism comes mostly his way, not Mourinho's, if the problem indeed is him seeing too much playing time.
I'm 61, can't run much any more but I have fantastic attitude and desire for the club to win every match. I am expecting a call-up from Jose at any minute.
Remember when Tony Pulis was managing Stoke? they worked harder than anyone but they were still midtable because they were average, limited and lacking in talent.
A players attitude only matters if he has the natural talent to make it a factor; Lingard doesn't. He's a West Brom level player.
Agree with this. He plays a specific role that Jose values which is why he is playing. Good squad player imo.
Which for me, if United fans feel that way, I'd be more concerned with Jose. Why can he not see, what other United fans do?! That would be my concern.
As one of biggest "haters" of lingard i see it like this:
Football players play in sport which makes them huge amount of money and that money is going from sponsors which again invest huge amount of money because football has biggest base of fans in all sports. No fans no sponsors no 100k per week for lingard.
So our( fans) right is to criticize or praise players, coaches, owners..
Also if we can criticize coaches, why not criticize players when they deserve?
Lingard case is similiar with moyes. He is out of his depth in manchester united. He took the chance( who wouldn't?) to play for united but he is just awful awful player and deserves to be trashed here.
And situations goes south when somebody stands in his defence with "he runs", "opens space", "he is local".. then people go berserk.
Football players play in sport which makes them huge amount of money and that money is going from sponsors which again invest huge amount of money because football has biggest base of fans in all sports. No fans no sponsors no 100k per week for lingard.
So our( fans) right is to criticize or praise players, coaches, owners..
Also if we can criticize coaches, why not criticize players when they deserve?
Lingard case is similiar with moyes. He is out of his depth in manchester united. He took the chance( who wouldn't?) to play for united but he is just awful awful player and deserves to be trashed here.
And situations goes south when somebody stands in his defence with "he runs", "opens space", "he is local".. then people go berserk.
Yes I am concerned as well, I have no objections with most of Jose's decisions but every manager makes strange decisions and that includes Fergie who imo was the best manager ever. Usually over time the best managers will eventually realise if they do make an error.
I get the point.
The difference between you and Jesse is that the kid is actually a professional football player.
Lingard may not be a particular skilful or technical player but he does well enough (above average) is most things.
Martial is a much better dribbler but Lingard can still beat a man at speed occasionally.
Arguably, Rashford can finish better but Lingard has shown he has ability to find the net too.
It is easy to scorn Lingard because his Football isn't easy on the eye. But it does appear that he does other things well enough such as being defensively more astute, attacking the space, disrupting defenders etc, better than the likes of Martial, Rashford or Mhiki.
I love Martial as a player, his direct forceful runs are beautiful to see but the problem is without the ball he seems very static.
Lingard most certainly deserves a spot in the team.
People keep claiming he is keeping better players out of the team. That's illogical, if these so-called better players were showing their true value and potential, Lingard would never get a sniff. It just means that these so-called better players aren't stepping up enough, or that there are situations where the manager trusts certain qualities that Lingard has over the others. That's the manager's prerogative.
Honestly this forum is getting worse over the years. There has always been criticism but increasingly there is so much hate and dislike and negative sentiment towards our own players. Support our manager and players and stand behind them. If they are good or bad, time will sort it out.
Martial is a much better dribbler but Lingard can still beat a man at speed occasionally.
Arguably, Rashford can finish better but Lingard has shown he has ability to find the net too.
It is easy to scorn Lingard because his Football isn't easy on the eye. But it does appear that he does other things well enough such as being defensively more astute, attacking the space, disrupting defenders etc, better than the likes of Martial, Rashford or Mhiki.
I love Martial as a player, his direct forceful runs are beautiful to see but the problem is without the ball he seems very static.
Lingard most certainly deserves a spot in the team.
People keep claiming he is keeping better players out of the team. That's illogical, if these so-called better players were showing their true value and potential, Lingard would never get a sniff. It just means that these so-called better players aren't stepping up enough, or that there are situations where the manager trusts certain qualities that Lingard has over the others. That's the manager's prerogative.
Honestly this forum is getting worse over the years. There has always been criticism but increasingly there is so much hate and dislike and negative sentiment towards our own players. Support our manager and players and stand behind them. If they are good or bad, time will sort it out.
Let's see. But as I say, Jesse a good squad player but definitely need a winger of quality, to take us to the next level. Bale would be a dream.
This in a nutshell!
Because out support is 60% cnut. Unfortunately
I wouldn't say hate him more hate the fact we have someone so poor playing regularly that it hampers us just like Tom Cleverley before. I will always keep an eye out for him if he moves away but I just want better than him at United or we will be mediocre with mediocre players playing.
I don't hate Lingard. He's young, English and a good squad player.
It's just that Rashford, Mkhitaryan, Martial and Mata are all better and should be starting ahead of him.
It's just that Rashford, Mkhitaryan, Martial and Mata are all better and should be starting ahead of him.
Cannot believe the hate on here for Lingard.
I really hope the ones that give him so much stick, never celebrated when he scored a worldly to win us our first FA Cup in 12 years.
I really hope the ones that give him so much stick, never celebrated when he scored a worldly to win us our first FA Cup in 12 years.
So fans aren't allowed to celebrate the TEAM winning a trophy because they don't rate Lingard? What a terrible post.
I meant celebrate the goal that he scored from nothing, in a game that we struggled in.
You're right there's nothing wrong with celebrating the team winning a trophy. But let's remember that it was Lingard that won it for us, and I don't think Mkhi, Martial or Mata have done enough to warrant the crap that Lingard gets.
I think we are the only big club who consistently start an attacking player whose role is to 'do a job' which doesn't consist of scoring or assisting. And then the moments we bring Fellaini in to play no.10 just compound these mistakes.
The worst thing of all with our team right now is the fact we don't play with an attacking LB and spend the whole game lopsided and predictable attacking with Valencia all game. I feel an attacking LB will bring the best out of our team especially if we pair him with any of our wingers who love cutting in like Martial.
Name me any elite team who would have Lingard start for them or even make 30 appearances in a season. Id rather have Lamela, Coman, Vasquez, Deulofeu etc as our squad winger.
The worst thing of all with our team right now is the fact we don't play with an attacking LB and spend the whole game lopsided and predictable attacking with Valencia all game. I feel an attacking LB will bring the best out of our team especially if we pair him with any of our wingers who love cutting in like Martial.
Name me any elite team who would have Lingard start for them or even make 30 appearances in a season. Id rather have Lamela, Coman, Vasquez, Deulofeu etc as our squad winger.
I'm amazed after all the stick Rooney used to get here (and no surprise he scored at everton today) that anyone thinks lingaard is worth more than £50/week
I think that might be the problem in the first place. Lingard is frankly speaking an awful attacking player, and people who have watched United for their entire lives, do not like that much awful attacking players (just look at Valencia's thread from the moment he became a bad winger until when he reinvented himself as a defender). And it is double frustrating when we have just three attacking players in the pitch (like against Madrid) and one of them is Lingard whose biggest attribute are workrate and defensive contributions.
This a great point and one of the major factors why we have been struggling for so long. It's not just Lingard we have a few players who are just in the team to plug holes and 'just do a job'.
When i look at our rivals and the first team wingers they field: Sane, De Bruyne, Sterling, Hazard, Willian, Erikson, Coutinho, Mane, Sanchez, Ozil etc Lingard doesn't come close to any of these guys, then we wonder why we finished 6th last season.
Hate is a strong word and so is saying him as our enemy. He is a wonderful lad who loves our club but as a player he is bang average.
It's funny jose says he needs more goals from other players bar strikers and yet he doesn't play martial but plays lingard.
It's funny jose says he needs more goals from other players bar strikers and yet he doesn't play martial but plays lingard.
It's the ability to work hard for the team and unlike Martial, he doesn't play with a scowl on his face. Martial has bags more ability though
cleverley, evans, o'shea, fletcher, p neville, nicky butt etc.
All players who came from the ranks, all players who got the stick of blame for whatever reason. You get fans talking about how player should be loyal, when they cant even be loyal to their own.
All players who came from the ranks, all players who got the stick of blame for whatever reason. You get fans talking about how player should be loyal, when they cant even be loyal to their own.
Praise martial, he will also do well. Jose has one kind of treatment for martial and shaw , and one for lingard and fellaini. It's like jose himself knows lingard and fellaini are players with limitation so he gives them more encouragement, why not just show more trust to martial.
Awful post.
Maybe it's because he knows Martial could be so much better;he has the ability to be Henry-esque but shows it in fits and starts. I'm convinced he'll destroy some teams this season
I don't dislike the lad, but I don't think he's good enough. We should be looking to have class throughout our starting eleven at the very least for a club of our stature.
He wouldn't get on the bench for City, Madrid, Barca, Bayern etc, yet he's a starter for Manchester United.
He wouldn't get on the bench for City, Madrid, Barca, Bayern etc, yet he's a starter for Manchester United.
Final season for him to show something for all the playing time he gets. Barring the goals at Wembley, he has little to account for as successes. Will probably be shipped out next season if continues being a passenger in most games.
Lingard is an extremely limited player and I can't list one positive attribute about him. Can't dribble or beat a man, can't spot a pass, can't finish either. People say he's got pace but I don't think he's particularly pacey either who can skin a defender, any average full back gets better of him because he has no physical strength. There is much talk about his link up but all I see him playing the ball back to where it came from, another positive people bleat about is amazing movement and I just don't see any. He usually comes infield and clogs the center making it easier for the opposition to defend.
But there is one thing he does well which you mentioned in your post, that ability to work hard is what keeping him in the XI, be it European finals, domestic cup finals or games vs Top 6 sides. Lingard is starting all these big profile matches and that is entirely down to Mourinho, he hasn't been productive in easier fixtures but he still starts Lingard only to hook him at 50' mark. Folks on here used to criticize Cleverley for not taking risks but how can you do something when that's not within your skill-set? I see the same problem with Lingard he just doesn't have the talent to do things we expect our wide players to do, if he's being played after serving string of poor performances then the blame lies with the manager and not the player.
The blame lies with the other more talented players for not seizing their moment. Martial and Mkhi in particular should be dominating teams but often disappear in games when they are capable of being world class. The fault is not the coach's but the other players
I've said it before, I'll say it again, 'I don't get Jesse Lingard' He has no obvious strengths, he's not a midfielder, not a winger, not a striker, he's just Jesse £100k a week Lingard, the luckiest fecker on earth, I don't hate him, but as in the Super Cup, when I see his name on the team sheet I just go 'Noooooooo'
That would only be valid if Lingard was outshining them but he very clearly isn't. Those two were much more productive than he was last season like.
I like Lingard, and I hope we don't sell him. It's just that he shouldn't be a first team option, but then no one has been consistent enough in the wide areas. Hopefully that will change this season.
I understand many of the comments on here about him being limited and maybe shouldn't be playing as many games - but that's not the issue is it. It's the vitriol that you see poured out at the lad that's the problem. There really is no need for some of the personal comments I've seen on here.