Maybe Jose has some use for Lingard. Guess we have to trust Jose for now.
Lingard: RedCafe Enemy #1?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
To me, it makes a lot more sense to have solid, hardworking squad options in defensive positions, or doing midfield dirty work.
Ciriticising the likes of Darmian suggesting he's the reason we're not at the top level seems daft, he provides solid back up and can cover all defensive positions and rarely lets us down in that respect.
Our attack has been shocking for 4 years though. We scored 54 goals last season, Bournemouth scored more. Our attacking positions are too important to just throw in a player who "can do a job" or their main attribute is work rate. Our defensive record was 2nd best in the league last season and more than good enough to win the league. To go from 6th to 1st we need players who are going to create and score goals in our attack.
Not at all. He is a very useful player to have on the team. He just should not have started in the Super Cup. I think Mourinho thought his aggressiveness and running would help put pressure on the ball to create turnovers. The problem is RM are so good that a little pressure does not faze them. So the whole point of him being in the side was neutralized. Any other team bar Barca, the tactic might have worked.
Nothing against the lad personally. I just prefer that he doesn't play unless we have nobody else to play in his position. He gets so much slack because he is homegrown.
Thinking objectively, do you see any of our rival clubs including him in their starting line-ups so often? Do you think we'll ever get a transfer offer for him from a club that is above mid-low table in the league? Will Spurs or Inter Milan ever make a bid for Jesse Lingard? Also, he's 24. Not exactly a youth player with potential anymore. He broke into the first team at the same time as Rashford so I feel that some people subconsciously group him in the same age category and again, give him more slack.
Thinking objectively, do you see any of our rival clubs including him in their starting line-ups so often? Do you think we'll ever get a transfer offer for him from a club that is above mid-low table in the league? Will Spurs or Inter Milan ever make a bid for Jesse Lingard? Also, he's 24. Not exactly a youth player with potential anymore. He broke into the first team at the same time as Rashford so I feel that some people subconsciously group him in the same age category and again, give him more slack.
If he was just used a squad player then he wouldn't get half the abuse he did. People might even appreciate some of the qualities he brings to the team. Still doesn't justify any abuse me he might get mind.
It is not like any of the other attacking players have shown the aptitude to lock down the attacking slots. I'd like to see a fair few of the attackers raise their game and if it organically pushes Lingard out of the team then so be it, people just want to be seen moaning because it gets them the most attention. As seen by some of the back-and-forth bilge in this thread.
He's pointless from an attacking sense. Movement shouldn't justify your inclusion in an attacking position for man utd
Maybe it just means that the rest of our players are not good enough. That's not Lingard's fault.
Of course, you didn't say that it was.
Absolutely. It speaks worse of the other players who aren't displacing Lingard despite being supposedly better.
He's just not good enough, no hate in that.
He's just a nothing player really. Good to come off the bench to shore up a lead, replace a tired player or play in the early rounds of domestic cups etc. He just doesn't have much talent and should almost never start for us.
He's basically Tom Cleverly but a winger.
He's basically Tom Cleverly but a winger.
How does the blame go to Martial for example for the Super Cup? He destroyed Real Madrid in the friendlies, he generally had a good preseason. Yet Jesse was picked ahead of him. I'm sorry but more often than not that narrative isn't true.
I agree with the poster that said it's like Jose has one criteria for Lingard and another for Martial, and by the looks of it it's not working on Martial so far. At the end Jose picks the team, and he takes the consequences.
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During a certain period, Mikel was a very good player for Chelsea. Don't let his last 2-3 seasons fool you because by then he was happy with the paycheck basically.
What winds me up about him is the way he speaks, all the social media stupidity, almost everything about this generation of footballers annoy me
You could go back as far as you like and im pretty sure id know the players you would mention but it really dosnt matter either way,its not a whos the top red discussion.
Jose,i think he's one of the best managers in the world who still gets his fair share of things wrong just like every other manager ever,whats your opinion of him?
I dont need to bore everyone with lists of all the periods and players of everytime we'v been successful,the whole forum knows we'v had some great sides and a lot of great youth players have been a part of them but we wernt successful JUST because we had a lot of academy players in the teams,we were successful because the players both academy and the ones we bought were good enough,which is what i said..."preferably with as many youth players who are good enough to achive that"....A lot of fans,myself included dont think lingard is good enough,he had 1 goal and 2 assits in 25 league games last season,playing mostly as one of the 3 behind the striker,if your happy with that then thats fine but just because others arnt happy with that it dosnt make them plastic fans as you called them.
With regards to supporting him,iv wanted him to have the game of his life every single time he's played for us,id love it if he went out today and had a stormer,just because i dont rate him it dosnt mean i dont want him to do well.
Lingard sets a perfectly achievable target for the so called more talented players to meet if they want to take his place.
That certain players aren't willing or able to show the required qualities to take his place says more about them than it does him. I imagine Lingard is a dream for the manager, he works his bollocks off everyday and follows the managers orders to the letter on game day, he's also highly unlikely to kick off if he does find himself out of the team for a period and by all accounts is very popular guy in the squad.
If the likes of martial and mhiki knuckle down and give José what he wants then they shouldn't have a problem getting Jesse's spot. If they don't they either wait for the next manager who may well have a different approach to José or they'll continue not to play as much as Lingard.
That certain players aren't willing or able to show the required qualities to take his place says more about them than it does him. I imagine Lingard is a dream for the manager, he works his bollocks off everyday and follows the managers orders to the letter on game day, he's also highly unlikely to kick off if he does find himself out of the team for a period and by all accounts is very popular guy in the squad.
If the likes of martial and mhiki knuckle down and give José what he wants then they shouldn't have a problem getting Jesse's spot. If they don't they either wait for the next manager who may well have a different approach to José or they'll continue not to play as much as Lingard.
I hate them fecking snapchats more than his performances.
Also, I don't understand the criticism he gets personality wise
I'm glad to see him enjoying his football and life in general. He should be pinching himself every day for living the dream 99% of this forum has - playing for Manchester United and being paid handsomely for doing so. You couldn't surgically remove the smile from my face if I was in his position.
If I had scored that winning goal in the fa cup final for my beloved United I'd still be dancing now whilst retweeting the moment every minute for the rest of my life
I swear some people on here would rather we had a team of robots
I'm glad to see him enjoying his football and life in general. He should be pinching himself every day for living the dream 99% of this forum has - playing for Manchester United and being paid handsomely for doing so. You couldn't surgically remove the smile from my face if I was in his position.
If I had scored that winning goal in the fa cup final for my beloved United I'd still be dancing now whilst retweeting the moment every minute for the rest of my life
I swear some people on here would rather we had a team of robots
Not as awful as this insightful effort or your one above it....Tom cleverly,yeah i wish we'd been more loyal to him....he got england caps while he was with us which have dried up since he left and played over 50 games for us,a club who are so far above his level its unreal,as has been proven by his career path since he left....i think we done alright by him. Honestly i think some fans would still have luke chadwick running down the wing for us,good old academy lad ya see. Some academy lads just arnt good enough,hundreds get released without getting a sniff of the first team,some have a decent run in the first team squad and ultimately get sold on,fans arnt been disloyal because they dont rate a player from the academy,they just want the club to be successful.
That is part of it. He's basically our only winger, and while he's not a very good player, he's probably as good a winger as the others who are played there out of position, just not as good a player.
Still though, it's not good enough and that's the issue.
He's definitely not as good as park that's for sure, park worked hard but was a very good player as well but he sacrificed himself for the good of the team as it was clear that other attacking players were far superior to him.
Lingard can have moments of brilliance but they are quite rare, he an ok player but starting him regularly isn't how we are going to win games.
Fixed. Certainly the case for me.all the social media stupidity, almost everything about this generation annoy me
Lingard is a superb player.
I think Jose's a great manager. Has his flaws, like we all do. He also knows a lot more about the game of football than I do. He's been very successful. He continues to be successful. He's adapted to our squad and culture as a club. If he thinks Lingard is the man for that particular game, then I'll habe to agree.
Supporting a player when he's doing isn't very difficult, is it? Supporting a player when he's going through a tough time is supporting a player. Believe it or not, a football club isn't just based on the quality of players on the pitch. It's about the squad harmony. Who would you have instead of Jese? Player like him is worth more to us, than other clubs. The players I mentioned earlier were exactly the same. They will go to lesser clubs. They won't go to a top four club. But these guys will do more for us, on & off the pitch for us, than someone more talented, aka ADM.
Oh I completely agree with you. It was a bit of a throwaway statement in that if it were that simple, then Martial/Miki would just work harder.
I can only imagine that Mourinho continues with Lingard as a starter because he trusts him to do a specific job, which he must be doing pretty well, coz he gets started in place of more talented players.
What I do find strange is the underlying commentary (by some) than manifests as personally targeted, anti Lingard vitriol.
He's being asked to do a job by his boss, he does it and he does it well enough to be trusted to do it again.
I can't blame him for doing the best he can, even if his best is at a level below some of his teammates. Like many on others I do get frustrated with his limitations and I have been known to shout "for fecks sake jesse" at the TV a few times, but thats in the context and passion of a live match.
Personally I'd love to see more of Rashford, Miki and Martial on the pitch at the same time.
Whether Mourinho agrees with me is another thing altogether.
spot on!
Can't disagree with this. Work-rate is just one aspect as is talent, intelligence, speed. fitness etc.
For whatever reason, it looks like Lingard has the combination of attributes which Mourinho values.
I would prefer he used more of the attacking talent he has at his disposal, in a more attack minded formation.
But I get paid to write code and Mourinho gets paid to win football matches. What do I know?
There's always going to be one scape goat people want to put their negative energy on and selling him is definitely going to be the answer to all our problems. Happens every season.
Selling him isn't the answer no, but playing someone who can contribute more than 1 league goal and 2 assists most likely will be. If you don't think that Lingard playing so many games had no connection to us being so dire last season in terms of goals scored then you would be deluded.
Thats were we differ,whilst knowing full well that jose knows more about football than i could ever dream of knowing a million times over i still have my own opinion.
Supporting a player and not rating a player are two totally differant things,i dont rate jesse but i support him every time he plays for us and not because he's doing well,it dosnt matter how badly he's played prevously or how badly he's playing during a game i still want him to do well the nxt time he gets the ball,he hasnt got a clue nor does he care that i dont rate him so me supporting him during good times or bad dosnt effect his performance anyways. Have you rated every single player thats came through our academy and played first team?
Whilst i agree squad harmony is important,using that as one of his qualitys rather than anything he does on the pitch speaks volumes and for all we know other players could be just as well liked amongst the group.
The players you mentioned earlier who you said you'd put jesse alongside i think your doing a massive disservice,especially butt and fletcher,i dont think lingard is anywher close to being as good or important to the club as these two,does that make you a plastic fan because you dont rate these 2 academy products as highly as i do...No,of course it dosnt,just like it dosnt make us who dont rate lingard plastic fans either.
What I don't understand is, how you can slate a player and support him at the same time? Also, how can he be so poor and be in a team that has picked up trophies in the past couple of years? He's not just been a bit part player, he's been an integral player.
If I'm doing Butt and Fletcher such a disservice, why did these guys not go to a league challenging team? Because like I said earlier, players like Jesse, Fletcher & Butt etc are more valuable to us, than they're to other top 6 teams. They're really good squad players. Without such players, you won't win trophies.
Like I say, I really don't understand why Jesse gets so much stick?! But of course, everyone has their own opinion on players, just like I do. But I'm a, "half glass full" kind of guy. I'll always try and see the best in our players. Rather than see what they don't bring to the team, I'll look at what they do bring.
Hating is justifed he/she says
Fellaini gets the worst by far
This.
It's not personal (he seems a nice lad, although seriously immature). Just that he's a West Brom or Palace player who's starting for United.
Would love to see barca, Madrid, bayern fans arguing for a player like lingard to even be on their bench. That's the level we need to reach and that is never happening if Lingard plays as many games as he did last year.
Another thing, this blaming of our top players for not keeping him out the team? Martial won us the game against Middlesbrough, has been more productive than lingard in previous season... but still won't get starts. The feck else can he do?
Another thing, this blaming of our top players for not keeping him out the team? Martial won us the game against Middlesbrough, has been more productive than lingard in previous season... but still won't get starts. The feck else can he do?
Lingard shows decent quality at times, as many have probably said of him, his main quality is off the ball, he tends to find a lot of space and wants the ball. It's just really when he's on the ball that's the issue, his passing needs to be better, there's a lack of quality there. Over the course of a season he can easily play an important part within the squad but we need a more talented player as a starter, with more cutting edge.
I always like to question whether he'd play for any of our rivals, then again why would our rivals want to play any home grown players?
I always like to question whether he'd play for any of our rivals, then again why would our rivals want to play any home grown players?
Voice of reason.
With the exception of Madrid, would we argue about having every "squad player" that Bayern & Barca have? I mean, you reckon Barca's Rafinha would come straight into our 11? You think Gnabry would come straight into our 11? The answer would be no.
Gnabry is much better than Lingard though to be honest.
Great reply. Truly an excellent addition to the thread.
Its all you deserve. Rethink your life