Kylian Mbappe | PSG

[Deleted member 101472]

@The holy trinity 68

Dennis Bergkamp at Arsenal had a goal ratio of 1 in 4 and an assist rate just a little bit better. For the position he played, and the success that Arsenal team had, the stats aren't the best, but everyone with eyes knew he was one of the most talented players in the league.

Stats aren't everything. They make or break some players but don't tell the full story with a prodigious talent like mbappe.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

@The holy trinity 68

Dennis Bergkamp at Arsenal had a goal ratio of 1 in 4 and an assist rate just a little bit better. For the position he played, and the success that Arsenal team had, the stats aren't the best, but everyone with eyes knew he was one of the most talented players in the league.

Stats aren't everything. They make or break some players but don't tell the full story with a prodigious talent like mbappe.

And he is obviously just glancing at Mbappe's stats.

 

[VorZakone]

Adding to the stat discussion, he's outperforming plenty of players with his goal/assist ratio per 90 mins anyway. His production is nothing to be sniffed at.

 

[Damien]

He played 28 games. Look at the amount of games the others i mentioned played and the goals amount they got. Can you not read stats properly? Because they are there to see and you can see the others did better.

Yes 15 goals in Ligue 1 in 29 appearances. Cavani scored 35 in 36 games. Lacazette 28 goals in 30 games. Falcao 21 goals in 29 games. Gomis 20 goals in 30 games. Balotelli 15 goals in 23 games.

Can you see the pattern here? That is only in the French League, never mind England, Spain, Germany.

I am not dismissing that he is a good player which he is. What I am dismissing is the notion that he is world class and a finished article already. Which he is not.

You're rubbish with stats. You need to break down the minutes. Here are the minutes and goals/assists in the leagues for the players you mentioned there and in the 16 players better than Mbappe.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

You're rubbish with stats. You need to break down the minutes. Here are the minutes and goals/assists in the leagues for the players you mentioned there and in the 16 players better than Mbappe.

Now ban him. That table wrecks his agenda completely.being Level with messi is just insane

 

[vadimivich]

You're rubbish with stats. You need to break down the minutes. Here are the minutes and goals/assists in the leagues for the players you mentioned there and in the 16 players better than Mbappe.

Mbappe is unreal. Also ... Harry Kane!

 

[BBRBB]

You're rubbish with stats. You need to break down the minutes. Here are the minutes and goals/assists in the leagues for the players you mentioned there and in the 16 players better than Mbappe.

Exactly, and Mbappé doesn't take the pens making these stats even more impressive.

 

[Moonred]

He has been fantastic consistently since he became good. But whether he is a finished article or not can only be established after a few seasons. He can be even better or stagnate. He is still so young and the hype looks real but I don’t think we are at a stage to be absolutely definitive about everything.

 

[Camy89]

Your post makes sense. I'm sure he will leave the French league in the next 3-4 years.

Henry left Monaco and the French league at the age of 22 and M'Bappé is just 18.

Tired of the discussion or in general?

In general. Post nightshift.

 

[Bwuk]

Messi
Ronaldo
Neymar
Cavani
Lukaku
Kane
Lewandowski
Aubemayang
Suarez
Morata
Aguero
Costa
Zlatan
Lacazette
Benzema
Higuain

That's 16 but hey ho.

Lacazette

I'm convinced you've never seen Mbappe play, either that or your basing everything off stats.

 

[B20]

Remember the fuss we made about depay? If Ronaldo at PSV was modern era, he'd have been the most hyped player ever

He wasn't though. So wasn't considered world class.

My point is no one saw him develop, he came on the scene and was the best.

Fair enough. He probably was the best well before he went to a big enough stage to be acclaimed the best.

 

[Ecstatic]

Lacazette

I'm convinced you've never seen Mbappe play, either that or your basing everything off stats.

Any French follower would .

He said "I know 15 better strikers" but the reality is he posted a list of 15 "offensive players":

Morata is a funny choice in the sense that he had to leave Madrid very interested in taking M'bappé.

A ranking of the offensive players under 22 would be also interesting.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

He wasn't though. So wasn't considered world class.



Fair enough. He probably was the best well before he went to a big enough stage to be acclaimed the best.

He was by those who knew. Different times man

 

[Stacks]

Top post. I would just add that M'Bappé will certainly develop his game in 2 phases:

- Phase 1 2017/19: he will be mainly deployed on the right because Cavani is still competitive
- Phase 2 2019/21: he is likely to replace Cavani as the #9

Henry is an inspiring example for him in terms of versatility.

1994: He started his career on the wing at the age of 16
1998: he is part of the starting 11. You can see the SF of the Champions League in 1998




1999: Henry joined Juventus at the age of 22: mainly deployed on the left wing. 6 months later, he joined Arsenal
1999/2000:

UEFA Cup Final 2000

WC Final 2006

Champions League final 2009

Zidane in a midfield two. I knew my memory hadn't deserted me as I remember him playing CM. Also Juve team was the most Italian team I have ever seen there.

 

[Ecstatic]

Zidane in a midfield two. I knew my memory hadn't deserted me as I remember him playing CM. Also Juve team was the most Italian team I have ever seen there.

The game against Monaco in 98


----------------Back4
---------------- Conte
-- Tacchinardi------------- Pessotto
---------------- Zidane
--------Del Piero ---- Inzaghi

Young Zidane was an aggressive player


1997 CL Final vs Borussia Dortmund

1998 CL Final vs Real Madrid

 

[WackyWengerWorld]

Yes 15 goals in Ligue 1 in 29 appearances. Cavani scored 35 in 36 games. Lacazette 28 goals in 30 games. Falcao 21 goals in 29 games. Gomis 20 goals in 30 games. Balotelli 15 goals in 23 games.

Can you see the pattern here? That is only in the French League, never mind England, Spain, Germany.

I am not dismissing that he is a good player which he is. What I am dismissing is the notion that he is world class and a finished article already. Which he is not.

Umm most of those were substitute appearances, he started 17 times and came off the bench 12 times, scoring 16 and assisting 8 in just 1500 minutes. He had 6 CL starts, 3 off the bench scoring 6 in just 536 minutes. That's world class goals/assists per minute.

If you must use stats at least use whoscored instead of wikipedia chief

 

[WackyWengerWorld]

The game against Monaco in 98


----------------Back4
---------------- Conte
-- Tacchinardi------------- Pessotto
---------------- Zidane
--------Del Piero ---- Inzaghi

Young Zidane was an aggressive player


1997 CL Final vs Borussia Dortmund

1998 CL Final vs Real Madrid

Was he aggressive or was it a case of Jugovic and DiLivio doing the donkey work for him? I was around during this time but I tended to watch highlights. Juve did play far better football than Inter back then, despite the latter having R9 they were negative.

 

[Ecstatic]

Was he aggressive or was it a case of Jugovic and DiLivio doing the donkey work for him? I was around during this time but I tended to watch highlights. Juve did play far better football than Inter back then, despite the latter having R9 they were negative.

Jugovic & Di Livio do the donkey job but Zidane was a disciplined player.

The perfect answer is below: Zidane against Monaco in a 4-4-2 system

----------------Back4
---------------- Conte
-- Tacchinardi------------- Pessotto
---------------- Zidane
--------Del Piero ---- Inzaghi





And if you want to see Zidane in 92 and his aggressive personality

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Lacazette

I'm convinced you've never seen Mbappe play, either that or your basing everything off stats.

Lacazette scored 37 goals last season.

 

[Varun]

Lacazette scored 37 goals last season.

You're merely proving his point.

 

[RedCurry]

You're rubbish with stats. You need to break down the minutes. Here are the minutes and goals/assists in the leagues for the players you mentioned there and in the 16 players better than Mbappe.

Caf loves its minutes per goal stat even though it doesn't prove much. Only thing that stat tells me is how offensive their respective teams are. There needs to be a lot more context to goal scoring than minutes per goal. Mbappe is absolutely fantastic little player but someone claiming Lacazette is better currently because of number of seasons he's consistently produced in, is at least debateable in my opinion.

 

[Schneckerl]

Caf loves its minutes per goal stat even though it doesn't prove much. Only thing that stat tells me is how offensive their respective teams are.

The poster quoted cited goals per game comparing a player who was a sub with someone with mostly full games played. How is that in any way a superior method?

 

[Drainy]

18/19 and already one of the best.

Hilarious that some of our fans didn't want us to try and sign him in the summer. Every club was in for him and for obvious reasons!!

Would have taken out right wing up 2-3 levels.

 

[Rozay]

Was clear at Monaco that he's no flash in the pan. Definitely the real deal for me, and the best young striker I've seen since R9.

Many seem determined to dismiss him simply because of his age, and '6 months of football' and all that, I think it's better to say what you see on this one.

 

[Ecstatic]

Lacazette scored 37 goals last season.

Lacazette played more games: more opportunities to score goals
Lacazette played much more minutes: much more opportunities to score goals.
Lacazette was the main CF in a 4-3-3 system: the whole team plays to make him shine while M'bappé was a 2nd/support striker in a 4-4-2 moving around Falcao.
Falcao can score a lot of goals but there isn't a second Lyon player capable to do so.
Last but not least, Lacazette scored a high number of penalties: 11 goals mate! M'bappé? ZERO.

If you exclude the penalties, M'bappé scored a similar amount of goals.

What about the stats of Lacazette at the age of 18 or 19? What's the impact of Lacazette at the European level?

I'm not saying that M'bappé will be necessarily successful or that he is already a Legend of the game.

I just say context matters when it comes to comparing.

 

[Ecstatic]

Caf loves its minutes per goal stat even though it doesn't prove much. Only thing that stat tells me is how offensive their respective teams are. There needs to be a lot more context to goal scoring than minutes per goal. Mbappe is absolutely fantastic little player but someone claiming Lacazette is better currently because of number of seasons he's consistently produced in, is at least debateable in my opinion.

1. The minutes per goal ratio allows comparisons between players who have different games times. The best way to define an impact player
2. Individual stats and collective ones are 2 different things: some teams have a single top scorer, others have 2 for example.

 

[ThierryHenry]

Comparing Lacazette to Mbappe.

You only need to spend five minutes watching them to know the kid's in a different league.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Comparing Lacazette to Mbappe.

You only need to spend five minutes watching them to know the kid's in a different league.

Would Mbappe have scored as many as Lacazette did last season if he lead the line for Lyon? A team inferior to Monaco who had better players and managed to win the he league. Probably not. 37 goals is nothing to be sniffed at.

Mbappe has had 1 good season and hasn't even had 1 full season yet. He is a good player but having half a good season in the French league and a few good games in the Champions League doesn't equate to him being world class. He is far from world class but he will be one day. People's definition of world class on here is a bit strange. World class for his age yes, world class amongst other attackers in the world no.

Not just number 9's either. Wingers, inside forwards, number 10's etc. I named about 13 attackers who are better and 3 debatable. That is not to mention I didn't mention Hazard, Sanchez, Eriksen, Dybala, Robben etc.

World class is the top 5 in their position in the world and he is not.

 

[Smores]

You're rubbish with stats. You need to break down the minutes. Here are the minutes and goals/assists in the leagues for the players you mentioned there and in the 16 players better than Mbappe.

Not for this thread but the main thing i take out of that table is what the hell happened with Falcao, how was he so shit for us.

I need to catch more of PSG Mbappe is just a joy to watch

 

[Hellboy]

Would Mbappe have scored as many as Lacazette did last season if he lead the line for Lyon? A team inferior to Monaco who had better players and managed to win the he league. Probably not. 37 goals is nothing to be sniffed at.

Mbappe has had 1 good season and hasn't even had 1 full season yet. He is a good player but having half a good season in the French league and a few good games in the Champions League doesn't equate to him being world class. He is far from world class but he will be one day. People's definition of world class on here is a bit strange. World class for his age yes, world class amongst other attackers in the world no.

Not just number 9's either. Wingers, inside forwards, number 10's etc. I named about 13 attackers who are better and 3 debatable. That is not to mention I didn't mention Hazard, Sanchez, Eriksen, Dybala, Robben etc.

World class is the top 5 in their position in the world and he is not.

It's not about scoring goals but natural talent. Mbappé is certainly the Messi/Ronaldo of the next 10 years, Lacazette is a good player nothing more.

 

[Ecstatic]

@The holy trinity 68

The consensus is more about saying he has the "potential" to be world-class one day

 

[RedCurry]

1. The minutes per goal ratio allows comparisons between players who have different games times. The best way to define an impact player
2. Individual stats and collective ones are 2 different things: some teams have a single top scorer, others have 2 for example.

Goals per minute stat might show the player's impact but I don't think the poster was talk about "impact". He was merely talking about why he thought Lacazette is at the moment more proven, hence better. Goals per minutes cannot be used as a measure of whether one player in better than the other. If that were true, Harry Kane would be better than Ronaldo. And I am pretty sure Iheanacho would be better than Benzema. And yet that's far from the truth. Consistency over a long period is a better measure. No one would argue that Mbappe truly looks like a once in a generation talent.

 

[Schneckerl]

Not just number 9's either. Wingers, inside forwards, number 10's etc. I named about 13 attackers who are better and 3 debatable. That is not to mention I didn't mention Hazard, Sanchez, Eriksen, Dybala, Robben etc.

World class is the top 5 in their position in the world and he is not.

If given the chance today you would start Lacazette, Higuain, Diego Costa, Benzema etc. over Mbappe?

 

[JPRouve]

Would Mbappe have scored as many as Lacazette did last season if he lead the line for Lyon? A team inferior to Monaco who had better players and managed to win the he league. Probably not. 37 goals is nothing to be sniffed at.

Mbappe has had 1 good season and hasn't even had 1 full season yet. He is a good player but having half a good season in the French league and a few good games in the Champions League doesn't equate to him being world class. He is far from world class but he will be one day. People's definition of world class on here is a bit strange. World class for his age yes, world class amongst other attackers in the world no.

Not just number 9's either. Wingers, inside forwards, number 10's etc. I named about 13 attackers who are better and 3 debatable. That is not to mention I didn't mention Hazard, Sanchez, Eriksen, Dybala, Robben etc.

World class is the top 5 in their position in the world and he is not.

I would say yes, he would have scored more. If Lyon had one thing last season it was their ability to create chances or create havoc in defenses and Mbappé's tools would have seen him score an awful lot for Lyon.

 

[Ecstatic]

Goals per minute stat might show the player's impact but I don't think the poster was talk about "impact". He was merely talking about why he thought Lacazette is at the moment more proven, hence better. Goals per minutes cannot be used as a measure of whether one player in better than the other. If that were true, Harry Kane would be better than Ronaldo. And I am pretty sure Iheanacho would be better than Benzema. And yet that's far from the truth. Consistency over a long period is a better measure. No one would argue that Mbappe truly looks like a once in a generation talent.

Indeed, the better way to assess a player is to combine diverse qualitative aspects & quantitative ones: style of play, potential, stats per season, stats over a career, stats at the European level, stats at the International level...

 

[The holy trinity 68]

It's not about scoring goals but natural talent. Mbappé is certainly the Messi/Ronaldo of the next 10 years, Lacazette is a good player nothing more.

@The holy trinity 68

The consensus is more about saying he has the "potential" to be world-class one day

I am not arguing that he has the potential to be the best in the world. A lot of posters are saying he is already world class as the finished article, which he is not.

If given the chance today you would start Lacazette, Higuain, Diego Costa, Benzema etc. over Mbappe?

No I would not, do you really believe he is better than all of them at this present time? In the future yes but now no. This is exactly what I mean about over rating the kid.

Better than Higuain, Benzema and Diego Costa? I have heard it all now.

 

[Damien]

Caf loves its minutes per goal stat even though it doesn't prove much. Only thing that stat tells me is how offensive their respective teams are. There needs to be a lot more context to goal scoring than minutes per goal. Mbappe is absolutely fantastic little player but someone claiming Lacazette is better currently because of number of seasons he's consistently produced in, is at least debateable in my opinion.

The holy trinity 68 was saying Mbappe scored 15 goals in 28/29 games to try and discredit him when in a lot of those games he was a sub, so goals/assists per minute is a better reflection, no? As for team offensiveness, the Liverpool team of 11-12 was very offensive but they hit the woodwork over 30 times and ended the season with 47 goals.

Not for this thread but the main thing i take out of that table is what the hell happened with Falcao, how was he so shit for us.

I need to catch more of PSG Mbappe is just a joy to watch

He was the same for Chelsea. Think he was recovering from his injury and for some players it takes longer than others.

 

[RedCurry]

The holy trinity 68 was saying Mbappe scored 15 goals in 28/29 games to try and discredit him when in a lot of those games he was a sub, so goals/assists per minute is a better reflection, no? As for team offensiveness, the Liverpool team of 11-12 was very offensive but they hit the woodwork over 30 times and ended the season with 47 goals.

Yea fair enough. I only replied to your post because it was actually the most researched one and others were just laughing at Mbappe and Lacazette comparison right off the bat. I don't think it's as easy a debate if you take consistency over multiple seasons into account.

 

[RedCurry]

Indeed, the better way to assess a player is to combine diverse qualitative aspects & quantitative ones: style of play, potential, stats per season, stats over a career, stats at the European level, stats at the International level...

Agreed there. Mbappe potential is as high as I've seen really. Kid's special. But I do think he'll have to produce at least one or two more seasons before we put him in the company of very best footballers in the world.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Agreed there. Mbappe potential is as high as I've seen really. Kid's special. But I do think he'll have to produce at least one or two more seasons before we put him in the company of very best footballers in the world.

This is what I was trying to say, great young talent but people saying he is world class already is a bit of an exaggeration. In a few years he is going to be, there is no denying that though.