- Joined
- May 10, 2009
- Messages
- 36,888
Liverpool fans defending is better than their team's.Every media outlet I've looked at concentrates on Liverpool fans' fury & suspicions; not a word about whether Klopp should be charged for his comment.
Liverpool fans defending is better than their team's.Every media outlet I've looked at concentrates on Liverpool fans' fury & suspicions; not a word about whether Klopp should be charged for his comment.
Lol.Liverpool fans defending is better than their team's.
The argument about the first pen is interesting, because it is about highly distinct interpretations about the offside rules, and will have consequences for later games.Can't believe you guys are still arguing about the 1st penalty, he didn't score so who cares, no injustice has been done.
The 2nd one is as clear a penalty as you are ever going to get.
In an effort to remain open minded I just rewatched it a few times and I'm even more sure it's a peno. If you strip back the situation to the basics (reasons like eyes on the ball, trying to pull out, intentional or not, Lamela playing for it are actually irrelevant whether you agree with them or not) you have a Liverpool defender kicking a Spurs player inside the box. It's a peno.At the start I thought it was penalty but I rewatched it like 5 times to make sure. I have to say it's not penalty.
The contact was so soft from VVD & VVD's main intention was to clear the ball away. Look at VVD's eye was on the ball only before the contact, he swing his leg to clear the ball but the moment he realised he won't get the ball, he tried to pull away his leg and ensure the less contact as possible he can do which he did the contact was so soft. Lamela's reaction was so late as well.
Klopp is obviously furious, Mourinho would have been furious as well. But we are all know Mourinho will get punished while Klopp will get away from being sarcastic about referee.
As an United fans, I'm happy with the result.
In an effort to remain open minded I just rewatched it a few times and I'm even more sure it's a peno. If you strip back the situation to the basics (reasons like eyes on the ball, trying to pull out, intentional or not, Lamela playing for it are actually irrelevant whether you agree with them or not) you have a Liverpool defender kicking a Spurs player inside the box. It's a peno.
If player A fouls player B but didn't mean to, it's still a foul right?
Agree on Klopp and is probable lack of punishment, if Mou said that he'd be slapped with a huge fine
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
yes. Otherwise there would be no foul ever since everyone can claim the same.If player A fouls player B but didn't mean to, it's still a foul right?
If you watch it from a better angle then yes.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Can you call that as a foul though?
By positioning himself in an offside position, Kane has taken action to influence the game.But the rule doesn't state anything about positioning, it says action. While Harry was offside he didn't attempt to tackle Lovern. If the ball had simply bounced off Lovern Kane would have been offside, but he botched his clearance.
I’m sorry for my salty wording previously. I do think it’s an interesting debate, and that you, Listar, are making some very good points that a failed to acknowledge. I was wrong in at first thinking the rules were obvious.As you said, that is your opinion and it is not according to the letter of the rules.
The fact is lovren deliberately attempt to play the ball and successfully connected with the ball. These two actions are all that is required. the rules does not state that he has to deliberately play the ball to the offside player. It says "deliberately plays the ball".
As for your advantage argument, if lovren did not miskick, but controlled the ball, then deliberately play it to an offside Kane, doesn't Kane then considered to have gain an advantage from an offside position?
This is not a handball situation where interpretation is needed. The referee in this instance does not need to interpret if lovren miskick or actually meant it. He just need to assess if lovren made an attempt to kick (note it's kick, not block).
If you keep arguing that it is a save, imagine the redicule the commentator would get if a defender make a clearance, and the commentator say, wow what a good save by the defender.
Yes... if that was the only angle we had it would have still been a foul but it would have been soft. Luckily we have many angles and the evidence is conclusive.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Can you call that as a foul though?
The Football Association has invited Jurgen Klopp to clarify his remarks that 'the FA is bent as f*ck and the poxy refs want shooting'. Mr Klopp has five years to respond.'
Very likely soSeems so you've forgot your point too.
It was totally clear what he said. His English is excellent.Klopp co
Okay, so what else was he possibly trying to say when he said the referee wanted to be the center of attention?
Funny thing about opinions is, I clearly see him not pulling out. He kicks the player as he would try to kick the ball. You see him clearly pulling out, I see him clearly not doing it, so the truth is obviously not clear.It was not that bad a decision. It is a normal penalty for me. You see some of them given, some of them not. Van Djik did get contact with Lamela though he was clearly trying to pull out. Lamela did over-react as if his back was split. That's the only way you get penalties nowadays (Blame the refs for it)
But the player was touched and it was a foul.
The thing is when you touch a player in the box, you give a chance for the ref to make a decision. And it is not in your favour a good number of times.
Seems like Wanyama is inside as well, which kind of clears the LFC-players, or so I’ve heard....If we're nitpicking about rules, then the first penalty should've been retaken
Thanks. Despite your heavy handed style of argument, including unfortunate references to disability, your points did help me get my head around the legalities of the case. You have persuaded me that the goal should have stood. But looking at the rules around offside brings home what a bloody complicated rule it is.And just to make sure you completely understand, I'll quote it from the above again, which is pivotal:
Q: Did lovren deliberately play the ball?
- A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is not considered to have gained an advantage.
A: yes, judging by his swing of the leg to attempt a clearance. I think everyone (unless issues with sight) agrees lovren tried to clear the ball. I think everyone agrees attempt to clear the ball is a deliberate attempt to play the ball (unless logic fails you)
Q: Did lovren touch the ball from his attempted clearance?
A: yes. Wherever the ball goes after is immaterial.
The rules didn't actually say anything about deliberately playing the ball means the ball has to travel in the direction of the intended target did it?
I'm not even sure why this is worth a debate. Pretty much black and white and nothing to argue about. You will be hard press[ed] to find an official or even an article to agree with klopp that it was offside.
He’s not actually trying to pull out, it’s Lamela’s leg that buckles and the lower part “recoils” from the violent kick he has made.It was not that bad a decision. It is a normal penalty for me. You see some of them given, some of them not. Van Djik did get contact with Lamela though he was clearly trying to pull out. Lamela did over-react as if his back was split. That's the only way you get penalties nowadays (Blame the refs for it)
But the player was touched and it was a foul.
The thing is when you touch a player in the box, you give a chance for the ref to make a decision. And it is not in your favour a good number of times.
He’s not actually trying to pull out, it’s Lamela’s leg that buckles and the lower part “recoils” from the violent kick he has made.
It looked like he was trying to pull out for me from another videoFunny thing about opinions is, I clearly see him not pulling out. He kicks the player as he would try to kick the ball. You see him clearly pulling out, I see him clearly not doing it, so the truth is obviously not clear.
The ironic thing is that Lovren’s clearance is absolutely beautiful, relative to the one he had five minutes earlier.
it doesn't matter if he was trying to pull out (lol). He was too late. He kicks his calf. How can that not be a pen?
It is a foul and pen.it doesn't matter if he was trying to pull out (lol). He was too late. He kicks his calf. How can that not be a pen?
This a million times. They cannot shut up about the first pen but the first one was misse anywayCan't believe you guys are still arguing about the 1st penalty, he didn't score so who cares, no injustice has been done.
The 2nd one is as clear a penalty as you are ever going to get.
If Mourinho did that he'd be banned until April.He's out of order the way he criticize the referee in my opinion, he can't claim that the linesman wanted to be the center of attention, it is questioning his integrity. Complain about the decision, but not the motive behind.
And rightly so (or at-least for a match or two), I'm really tired of managers shifting blame onto referees to mask their own teams shortcomings. Not every decision will go your way, and although in some cases it is justified to complain about a decision it happens far too often. When managers start saying things like 'it should have been a free-kick in the middle of the pitch in the buildup to the goal' or things like that it's unhealthy for the game and referees who have to face the reactions from the million of fans the manager of their team can influence.If Mourinho did that he'd be banned until April.