The Spurs thread | 2017-18 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

[redflair]

I expected one of Spurs or United to go out of the CL at this stage simply because the currency of the away draw (even the score draw) isn't what it used to be in this competition.

United also face a highly dangerous game against Sevilla and we have to hope some of those Europa League collywobbles at OT last season have been well and truly dusted off.

They have to improve drastically, particuarly at home, to go deep into the competition.

 

[RedSky]

I agree with a lot of what you wrote.
But in 1998, we were one of the best teams. Our problem was that Cole kept missing chances. Against Dortmund (it was a German team, though can't be sure if it was Dortmund), we absolutely dominated the game, having created an unprecedented number of chances and having laid seige to their goal for almost the entire 90 minutes of the OT fixture. We couldn't finish, though and we went out.
In the 1998 season, M.Lippi himself said that MUFC are now the best team in Europe.
In 1999, we were the best team in Europe. No question about that, having beaten the previous best team (Juventus) in an earlier round.
I would even say that the following year we were the best team in Europe, but we didn't win the CL, so can't claim this. We absolutely dominated the league, though.
I am 43 years of age, so I remember watching those games/seasons.

I don't quite understand why MUFC fans, are belittling us, while praising our rivals. If I didn't know any better, I'd think that this was a LFC or MCFC forum.

1. Spurs have no budget and yet have done brilliantly in the last few seasons to get to where they are playing the football they do. They deserve praise to be able to compete against teams like Juve and Madrid.
2. We've spent a fortune since LvG arrived and yet still play inconsistent and at times very dull football. I can understand why fans would moan about our performances in the last 5 years.

There's no harm in praising other clubs like there's no harm in laughing at our rivals messing up from time to time. The over defensive United fans make me cringe hard tbh.

 

[Random Task]

1. Spurs have no budget and yet have done brilliantly in the last few seasons to get to where they are playing the football they do. They deserve praise to be able to compete against teams like Juve and Madrid.
2. We've spent a fortune since LvG arrived and yet still play inconsistent and at times very dull football. I can understand why fans would moan about our performances in the last 5 years.

There's no harm in praising other clubs like there's no harm in laughing at our rivals messing up from time to time. The over defensive United fans make me cringe hard tbh.

The vast majority of those United fans taking a swipe at Spurs right now are doing so purely to get one over on Glaston, rather than some obscure hatred of the club itself.

I kinda like Glaston, the guy is a constant source of entertainment on this forum and actually quite informative on all matters related to Spurs football club.

Admit it, this particular thread would be far less interesting if he chose not to partake in its content.

 

[Haddock]

I think Barry Glendenning has said this almost verbatim multiple times on the Guardian's Football Weekly podcast. Some real pathetic stuff from him.

Glendenning is a real piece of work but Wilson and Auclair are the ones who do the pop psychoanalysis. Shame because Auclair can be very good indeed, especially when interviewing players. Wilson, well, his 'Blizzard' is excellent. Also hilarious that Glendenning often jokes about not making it past page 10 of 'Inverting the pyramid'. 'Tedious' is the word he used I think.

I am genuinely perplexed after reading this post. Do you actually mean to say, with all sincerity, that it's not Glaston's fault?

That makes no sense. I'm confused.

Yes, I neglected to mention that Glaston can be a prat. He's the Spurs version of Ty isn't he?

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

What's remarkable about Glaston is he was just as annoying at a time when we were winning league titles and the European Cup and Spurs were a total nothing club going nowhere.

Even when we used to routinely take 6 points off them every season he managed to come across as unbearable smug. His talent for winding people up is impressive really.

 

[Random Task]

Glendenning is a real piece of work but Wilson and Auclair are the ones who do the pop psychoanalysis. Shame because Auclair can be very good indeed, especially when interviewing players. Wilson, well, his 'Blizzard' is excellent. Also hilarious that Glendenning often jokes about not making it past page 10 of 'Inverting the pyramid'. 'Tedious' is the word he used I think.




Yes, I neglected to mention that Glaston can be a prat. He's the Spurs version of Ty isn't he?

Sorry, who?

 

[JuveGER]

Spurs fans can be proud of their team. They were really impressive. Fast, strong, comfortable on the ball with some crisp passing. They played three strong teams in the CL and came away with a positive record. That may count for little, when you are eliminated in the last 16, but it's something that can give them believe and confidence that they belong on this level.

But they certainly need to be more more clever/cynical. Our second goal was playground stuff with Higuain dropping deep, pulling the defender with him and Dybala running into the space behind to receive the throughball. That should never happen. You have to prevent him from turning and if you can't, take him out. They could have managed the game much better, dropping a little deeper, keeping the ball and force us to press them. If they can keep that team intact and go through some more CL KO rounds, they will learn.

Hope they will do well for the remainder of the season. They are doing a good job against teams with much more financial pulling power. They deserve some reward.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

@balaks A great example of the media bias Spurs get that's started to make many neutrals lean away from them (you were asking yesterday why so many United fans 'hate' Spurs).

Can you imagine an article like this being written if United go out at the same point?

It's from the BBC...

Painful defeat can help Spurs build bright future

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43326021

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

@balaks A great example of the media bias Spurs get that's started to make many neutrals lean away from them (you were asking yesterday why so many United fans 'hate' Spurs).

Can you imagine an article like this being written if United go out at the same point?

It's from the BBC...

Painful defeat can help Spurs build bright future

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43326021

There is a massive difference in the status of United and Spurs though? Also the media are trying to sell our best players and manager to anyone possible so we don't get that easy a run of it.

 

[Varun]

@balaks A great example of the media bias Spurs get that's started to make many neutrals lean away from them (you were asking yesterday why so many United fans 'hate' Spurs).

Can you imagine an article like this being written if United go out at the same point?

It's from the BBC...

Painful defeat can help Spurs build bright future

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43326021

I don't get it, why would you ever expect the reaction to Spurs going out being the same as us? Pedigree, resources, size of the club, etc. How are they remotely comparable?

 

[FootyGirl88]

I wonder if last nights result will effect the rest of their PL campaign.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

I wonder if last nights result will effect the rest of their PL campaign.

Don't think so, we played well, I am sure Poch will have them back on track, just hope he goes all out for the FA Cup and top 4.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I don't get it, why would you ever expect the reaction to Spurs going out being the same as us? Pedigree, resources, size of the club, etc. How are they remotely comparable?

The point is - do you not think that article has a biased slant...?

"Shaping bright future" in the title of an article of a team that's just lost a home leg to be dumped out of another CL is insane.

@balaks was asking why neutrals were leaning away from Spurs, I believe the above is a big part of the answer.

Spurs have a very strong first 11, that was all pretty much fit yesterday. And they've spent a decent amount in Pochettino's time there - the excuses have to stop somewhere.

I'm sure there must be some Spurs fans who can see the same truth.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Don't think so, we played well, I am sure Poch will have them back on track, just hope he goes all out for the FA Cup and top 4.

True, he'll want a strong response against Bournemouth at the weekend to make sure you get back on track.

 

[Akshay]

Don't think so, we played well, I am sure Poch will have them back on track, just hope he goes all out for the FA Cup and top 4.

I think you'll get top 4 comfortably and you're the team I'm most worried about in the FA cup. Think ourselves, you and Chelsea will all be desperate to win that one given how the season's turned out.

 

[Buchan]

Gutted to go out tonight but also really pleased with the performance during the whole of the Champions League campaign this season.

I believe in the long run, this will make us stronger after this seasons experience in the competition.

It may well have done us a favour, as I don't believe we could've won the CL with clubs like Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man City and obviously Juve in it. We can now prioritise the Top 4 and hopefully we can challenge for the FA Cup, without the pressure and travel etc in the CL.

Proud of the team, and watching some of the best football i've seen from Spurs in years. I like to be entertained as well as challenging. It must be awful watching tumescent, negative, defensive football like other teams play. Soul destroying

The salt!

 

[GazTheLegend]

They deserved to go through but typical bottle job really.

 

[JakeC]

What's remarkable about Glaston is he was just as annoying at a time when we were winning league titles and the European Cup and Spurs were a total nothing club going nowhere.

Even when we used to routinely take 6 points off them every season he managed to come across as unbearable smug. His talent for winding people up is impressive really.

It's genuinely admirable.

 

[Varun]

The point is - do you not think that article has a biased slant...?

"Shaping bright future" in the title of an article of a team that's just lost a home leg to be dumped out of another CL is insane.

@balaks was asking why neutrals were leaning away from Spurs, I believe the above is a big part of the answer.

Spurs have a very strong first 11, that was all pretty much fit yesterday. And they've spent a decent amount in Pochettino's time there - the excuses have to stop somewhere.

I'm sure there must be some Spurs fans who can see the same truth.

Your post expressed surprise stating the narrative would be very different if we went out like they did. My point was simple, that's to be expected.

 

[manunited1919]

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So looks like PSG will be in for Poch in the summer.

That would be a mistake. PSG needs to re-hire Ancelotti, as their aim is to win the CL.

 

[manunited1919]

Yeah - the FA cup is now a massive competition for us this year. Having now slept on it and (finally) calmed down a bit I can reflect on what has been a good European campaign overall - we had one of the toughest groups which we topped and were beaten in a very close tie by one of the giants of European football full of experience. Disappointed yes but downhearted no. I know we keep saying it but it is true - we are improving year on year - I do not think we would have got through that group last year.

As long as we continue to show incremental improvements then I have no doubt that we will start winning things - with a bit of luck. I think the team still is inexperienced when it counts - as is Poch tbh and I hope that they grow from this experience and the manager becomes more pro-active in adapting to changes within games - that let us down last night and the players didn't know how to cope with Juve's changes in the second half.

If we end this season in the top 4 and win the FA cup I'll be very happy with this season as a whole - especially given the disruption due to the move to Wembley this was always going to be a tough season for us but we have dealt with it better than I'd expected. If we don't win the FA cup then I will be a bit disappointed tbh as my expectations for this team are growing and we should be getting to finals on a regular basis given the talent we have.

I can see a few European giants going all out to sign some of your best players, so I wouldn’t assume you will improve next season. You are at risk of losing Kane, Son and Eriksen, their heads can be turned.

 

[Sky1981]

Spurs fans can be proud of their team. They were really impressive. Fast, strong, comfortable on the ball with some crisp passing. They played three strong teams in the CL and came away with a positive record. That may count for little, when you are eliminated in the last 16, but it's something that can give them believe and confidence that they belong on this level.

But they certainly need to be more more clever/cynical. Our second goal was playground stuff with Higuain dropping deep, pulling the defender with him and Dybala running into the space behind to receive the throughball. That should never happen. You have to prevent him from turning and if you can't, take him out. They could have managed the game much better, dropping a little deeper, keeping the ball and force us to press them. If they can keep that team intact and go through some more CL KO rounds, they will learn.

Hope they will do well for the remainder of the season. They are doing a good job against teams with much more financial pulling power. They deserve some reward.

Ye... sometimes the only right thing to do is to close up shop.

When Tottenham scores juve needs to score 2 or out on goal difference, the pressure is huge on them to score. If totenham close up shop real tight juve might get one goal but probably not 2.

 

[RedFish]

football is wonderful!

 

[TheReligion]

Gutted to go out tonight but also really pleased with the performance during the whole of the Champions League campaign this season.

I believe in the long run, this will make us stronger after this seasons experience in the competition.

It may well have done us a favour, as I don't believe we could've won the CL with clubs like Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man City and obviously Juve in it. We can now prioritise the Top 4 and hopefully we can challenge for the FA Cup, without the pressure and travel etc in the CL.

Proud of the team, and watching some of the best football i've seen from Spurs in years. I like to be entertained as well as challenging. It must be awful watching tumescent, negative, defensive football like other teams play. Soul destroying

As soul destroying as empty trophy cabinets? Save a few quid and don't bother with one in the new stadium. You might need a few quid to try and keep Harry in the summer

 

[TheReligion]

Thanks for the considerate responses guys.

I like you and Spurs really.

Some Spurs posters on the Caf though got very cocky and disrespectful of United though and think that shaped some of the negativity towards the club.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Your post expressed surprise stating the narrative would be very different if we went out like they did. My point was simple, that's to be expected.

The point about us was secondary. You can put any top 5 team in the place where I said 'Utd'.

The point was that it's a highly usual slant to take on a team that's just been dumped out of the CL from a home game that they only needed to draw 1-1 to get through.

The media in England is well known to be biased toward Spurs and my post was an example of that.

 

[breakout67]

It's quite sad that Spurs fans are trying to one up other clubs regarding style of football. Liverpool are more entertaining and Man City are just on a different planet to Spurs. United aren't particularly entertaining but they can shithouse their way to wins which is very valuable at the top level.

 

[finneh]

It's quite sad that Spurs fans are trying to one up other clubs regarding style of football. Liverpool are more entertaining and Man City are just on a different planet to Spurs. United aren't particularly entertaining but they can shithouse their way to wins which is very valuable at the top level.

I don't see them as more entertaining than United, despite this seeming to be the accepted narrative. They've got the best striker in the league and their best squad in decades, which along with an apparent attacking style should comfortably have them outscoring United.

In truth I thought they were more entertaining under Redknapp; especially considering that his best team included Pavyluchenko, Lennon, Kaboul, Huddlestone and Palacios.

 

[Haddock]

Sorry, who?

Glaston or Wilson? Wilson is a very well respected football journalist. Like a modern day Glanville. He wrote (literally) a book on tactics - 'Inverting the pyramid' and he's written about football in eastern Europe, a history of Argentinian football, covers AFCON (very well) and he started a pay as you go magazine (the blizzard) that covers very interesting football stories across the globe, fan culture, interviews with former players and so on. Sort of the anti-four four two. He's also agenda driven, loves Bielsa, hates Mourinho and prizes aesthetics over everything. See his newest article in today's Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...otball-aesthetics-manchester-united-liverpool) I assume he was the pejorative 'Einstein' Mourinho referred to last year.

Auclair is another well known french journo who wrote a biography of Eric Cantona. He also writes for the Blizzard.

Glastonspur is a spurs fan who wums on the caf.

 

[Random Task]

Glaston or Wilson? Wilson is a very well respected football journalist. Like a modern day Glanville. He wrote (literally) a book on tactics - 'Inverting the pyramid' and he's written about football in eastern Europe, a history of Argentinian football, covers AFCON (very well) and he started a pay as you go magazine (the blizzard) that covers very interesting football stories across the globe, fan culture, interviews with former players and so on. Sort of the anti-four four two. He's also agenda driven, loves Bielsa, hates Mourinho and prizes aesthetics over everything. See his newest article in today's Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...otball-aesthetics-manchester-united-liverpool) I assume he was the pejorative 'Einstein' Mourinho referred to last year.

Auclair is another well known french journo who wrote a biography of Eric Cantona. He also writes for the Blizzard.

Glastonspur is a spurs fan who wums on the caf.

I keep hearing of the fabled Glastonspur, his antics are legendary around these parts, he sounds like quite a guy. Yet he never shows himself, I'm beginning to believe it's all myth. He doesn't exist.

 

[RedSky]

I don't see them as more entertaining than United, despite this seeming to be the accepted narrative. They've got the best striker in the league and their best squad in decades, which along with an apparent attacking style should comfortably have them outscoring United.

In truth I thought they were more entertaining under Redknapp; especially considering that his best team included Pavyluchenko, Lennon, Kaboul, Huddlestone and Palacios.

You obviously don't watch enough games to form that opinion. We've played dire football for a good while now, it's slowly improving under Jose but it's taking time. Spurs have played good football for 3 seasons now, bossing games and generally shooting significantly more than us.

It's bizarre how many people on here seem bothered about the media. It's weird.

 

[africanspur]

I don't see them as more entertaining than United, despite this seeming to be the accepted narrative. They've got the best striker in the league and their best squad in decades, which along with an apparent attacking style should comfortably have them outscoring United.

In truth I thought they were more entertaining under Redknapp; especially considering that his best team included Pavyluchenko, Lennon, Kaboul, Huddlestone and Palacios.

We were more entertaining under Redknapp for the neutral perhaps because we tended to have far less control of matches and had quite a few high scoring (on both sides) exciting games. I can categorically say that there are very few Spurs fans who would say they enjoyed watching Spurs under Redknapp more we do now.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with Lennon or Palacois for that matter. The team also included Bale, Modric, Van Der Vaart and King.

 

[breakout67]

I keep hearing of the fabled Glastonspur, his antics are legendary around these parts, he sounds like quite a guy. Yet he never shows himself, I'm beginning to believe it's all myth. He doesn't exist.

He tends to disappear when Spurs lose a game, then gives it the biggun' when they win their next game. A professional, you have to admire his dedication to the craft of WUMming.

 

[Random Task]

He tends to disappear when Spurs lose a game, then gives it the biggun' when they win their next game. A professional, you have to admire his dedication to the craft of WUMming.

The last few pages of this thread are testiment to his wumming skills.

Where art thou, oh Glaston of Spur?

 

[GlastonSpur]

The last few pages of this thread are testiment to his wumming skills.

Where art thou, oh Glaston of Spur?

One person's 'wumming' is another's valid criticism.

Take Pogba, for example, I said he'd prove to be an expensive flop, but was told "look at how great he was in Serie A" and "he's world class".

Fast forward and now many people see that's he's lazy, lacks positional awareness, thinks he's he much better than he actually is, has the occasional good game but far more where he's either terrible or just bone average.

No one can realistically deny that for £90m you'd expect a lot, lot more.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

He's back and he's Wumming better than ever!

 

[finneh]

We were more entertaining under Redknapp for the neutral perhaps because we tended to have far less control of matches and had quite a few high scoring (on both sides) exciting games. I can categorically say that there are very few Spurs fans who would say they enjoyed watching Spurs under Redknapp more we do now.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with Lennon or Palacois for that matter. The team also included Bale, Modric, Van Der Vaart and King.

Of course Spurs fans prefer watching their team under Pochettino, rather than Redknapp... The former wins far more often and finishes higher in the league. Don't let that cloud your view though... Redknapp was a more entertaining manager.

The debate regarding Mourinho and Pochettino is no different to the non-debate between Pochettino and Redknapp. One is more succesful, the other is more entertaining.

Of course football fans are biased. Spurs fans prefer Pochettino to Redknapp because the former is more successful, but prefer Pochettino to Mourinho because he "plays better football", despite being far less successful.

Logic suggests you either prefer Redknapp to both Pochettino and Mourinho or you prefer Mourinho to both Pochettino and Redknapp. It would take a lot of mental gymnastics to say you want the non-success and quasi-entertainment of Pochettino over the success or entertainment of Mourinho and Redknapp.

 

[Kraftwerker]

One person's 'wumming' is another's valid criticism.

Take Pogba, for example, I said he'd prove to be an expensive flop, but was told "look at how great he was in Serie A" and "he's world class".

Fast forward and now many people see that's he's lazy, lacks positional awareness, thinks he's he much better than he actually is, has the occasional good game but far more where he's either terrible or just bone average.

No one can realistically deny that for £90m you'd expect a lot, lot more.

It’s like you’ve just described your entire life experience of watching Spurs.

All that shite you talked about Juve coming home to roost. Cluck cluck.

 

[Dominant]

The vast majority of those United fans taking a swipe at Spurs right now are doing so purely to get one over on Glaston, rather than some obscure hatred of the club itself.

I think those who are doing that are really childish and pathetic. Get a grip.

 

[africanspur]

Of course Spurs fans prefer watching their team under Pochettino, rather than Redknapp... The former wins far more often and finishes higher in the league. Don't let that cloud your view though... Redknapp was a more entertaining manager.

The debate regarding Mourinho and Pochettino is no different to the non-debate between Pochettino and Redknapp. One is more succesful, the other is more entertaining.

Of course football fans are biased. Spurs fans prefer Pochettino to Redknapp because the former is more successful, but prefer Pochettino to Mourinho because he "plays better football", despite being far less successful.

Logic suggests you either prefer Redknapp to both Pochettino and Mourinho or you prefer Mourinho to both Pochettino and Redknapp. It would take a lot of mental gymnastics to say you want the non-success and quasi-entertainment of Pochettino over the success or entertainment of Mourinho and Redknapp.

Or..you know, you could be a bit less patronising and realise that a Spurs fan who watches pretty much all of their football through season after season may be in a better position than you to say which iteration of which Spurs teams played more entertaining football?

The team under Poch plays better, more attractive football than the team under Redknapp. That is just plain to see., regardless of whatever point you are currently trying to prove about Pochettino and Mourinho, which I think is probably the true purpose of your post and I imagine probably clouds how you watch his team (as nobody would have been stupid enough to say Redknapp was better or played more attractive football than Ferguson).

Logic suggests no such thing. I preferred Jol than Redknapp. Redknapp was a more successful Spurs manager, who played better football but I still preferred Jol. I also preferred Jol over AVB and literally anyone over the snake Sherwood, despite him repeating over and over again how high his win percentage was compared to other Spurs managers.

I feel it is starting to get a bit pointless to debate Poch and his achievements (and very real faults as well) on here as the comparisons to Mourinho have made people lose objectivity. Which is fair enough, as you said, it is ultimately a sport rife with bias. However, as it became with Nani vs Bale as people on here felt Bale was getting too much credit vs Nani, the debates became silly and pointless. My personal favourite was Nani is already better than Bale's highest ceiling. Saying Redknapp played better football is pretty much in line with those comments.