[#07]

interesting post, and goes with what jose said about taking him off

Valencia was closest to me in the second half and I thought he was as infuriating. Actually moreso because Valencia is an experienced player and I remember the days when he used to push the ball past players and then put the ball into the box. He's become a shadow of that player. Its shocking he's captain. No obvious leadership skills to my eyes.

The one saving grace Valencia has is pace, which he almost never uses going forward. It meant he was able to track runners better than Shaw though.

All of our full backs were poor against Brighton and have been poor for awhile. We salvaged the Palace game by playing Lingard at full back FFS. Jose needs to get rid of them like how Pep binned Zabaleta etc and get in some proper quality. Although I'd love to see Timbo Fosu-Mensah get a crack at right back. With his speed and stamina he'd be a real asset out there.

 

[JK-27]

These comments aren't coming from Jose though. They're coming from a Southampton academy director, who has zero reasons to go and talk about Shaw mentality like this. In fact you would have expecting one of the academy directors of the club Shaw emerged from would have defended more than anyone but he came on and said the trust.

The astonishing thing is him getting defended regarding this after almost everyone that worked with him talked about either his mentality or fitness as a clear, but instead directing it towards Mourinho. Ok, feck Mourinho, but what about all the rest ? Are all of them have an agenda against Shaw ? for what ?

Have IQ's dropped around here? How can you completely misinterpret the point. Let me make it blatantly clear for you.

1) Our manager has publicly claimed Luke Shaw is training hard. He publicly claimed this 5 weeks ago. Not a single person from Utd has claimed different since.

2) Luke Shaw was subbed at half time against Brighton for tactical reasons (he was not doing what Jose asked him to do, neither was Valencia. Jose publicly said he could have subbed both of them but that would have been too aggressive - you can listen to him say literally say that). At no point was Shaw's physical fitness or training called in to question as a reason for him being subbed.

3) Since Luke Shaw was subbed against Brighton, the media and the sheeple of this board have claimed he is not training hard. Nobody from Utd has said this is the case. The media's evidence of Shaw not training hard is the view of someone who last worked with him 5 years ago. That person has no experience of how Luke Shaw is training today.

4) There is no evidence or claim from any Utd personnel that Luke Shaw is not currently training hard. None. So why is that story being pushed in the media and on this board?

 

[el3mel]

Have IQ's dropped around here? How can you completely misinterpret the point. Let me make it blatantly clear for you.

1) Our manager has publicly claimed Luke Shaw is training hard. He publicly claimed this 5 weeks ago. Not a single person from Utd has claimed different since.

2) Luke Shaw was subbed at half time against Brighton for tactical reasons (he was not doing what Jose asked him to do, neither was Valencia. Jose publicly said he could have subbed both of them but that would have been too aggressive - you can listen to him say literally say that). At no point was Shaw's physical fitness or training called in to question as a reason for him being subbed.

3) Since Luke Shaw was subbed against Brighton, the media and the sheeple of this board have claimed he is not training hard. Nobody from Utd has said this is the case. The media's evidence of Shaw not training hard is the view of someone who last worked with him 5 years ago. That person has no experience of how Luke Shaw is training today.

4) There is no evidence or claim from any Utd personnel that Luke Shaw is not currently training hard. None. So why is that story being pushed in the media on this board?

Such a long pointless post.

You probably should reread the post you were replaying to from the start. The poster was talking about what the academy director at South was talking, then you came with a replay about Mourinho selling other talents and his talking about Shaw, not just that but you go and complain about others' IQ ?

Do you actually read what you're replaying to or you're just listing what are you memorizing ? The point of talk was one of the people responsible for Shaw development at South talking about his mentality there. He hasn't said he isn't training hard at United. He's saying his views on the player from his experience with him. Don't divert it elsewhere.

 

[Giggsyking]

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[breakout67]

Luke Shaw could be morbidly obese, so long as he is playing well. There is nothing wrong with being a bit of a tank ie. Kolasinac, it's about quality on the pitch and Luke Shaw has been average for the majority of time he has been here. To be honest, his mythical 5 games streak under LVG is in my opinion massively overrated. Luke Shaw has yet to hit the level he had at Southampton, and ideally he should be improving on that level not just reaching it.

Sometimes when a player has a massive injury, they need a change of scenery to find their hunger again. A similar thing happened with Falcao, he was a donkey in England but transformed when he went back to Monaco. The psychology of a long term injury is very difficult to overcome.

 

[Oldyella]

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How long before the ‘Young bullying shaw’ headlines?

Comments seem to align with what people have been saying re Jose, that hes frustrated as he thinks he can be a player.

Bit weird hassling Young over it though, was this with England?

 

[Nuts]

Sure that’s the only difference...

He makes a fair point, actually. Walker used to get criticised a lot when he was younger and in Poch and Pep he’s worked with two managers recognised for their work with full backs. He’s come a hell of a long way but I’d have thought, watching him play for Southampton, that Shaw had the higher ceiling of the two.

 

[sherrinford]

Shaw overlapps but cannot cross for shit so it is not really helpful. If he could whip it in ala [Irrelevant point] I'd understand wanting to play him a lot but he is average at best.

Any delivery from Shaw is garbage but Alonso or Young consistently provide telling crosses? You are exaggerating. And an overlap doesn’t need to end with a good whipped ball in to be good play. Crosses from deep (relatively, against set defenders facing away from their goal) have to be good or it’s just infuriating, unimaginative and dull football - and unless you have Beckham that is the case the vast majority of the time. Willing runners - overlaps, third-man runs, one-twos - provide the means to move defenders about, to break their set lines, create gaps and get them turning which is itself good play. Evra and Dani Alves were both ridiculously wayward with their crosses and were still assets for their clubs.

Again, Shaw didn’t exactly provide a barnstorming presence down our left side during Young’s suspension but he did take a few carefully chosen opportunities to open the legs a bit and it made a difference. Coupled with his defensive solidity - through his athleticism and cautious positioning generally - his play was similar to Valencia’s and showed something to work with and work on. He didn’t get to keep his place, and there were no hints of off the ball running at all during his half against Brighton. Ironically, it would seem Mourinho was looking for him to provide exactly that. If his time here wasn’t unsalvageable before that game I’d imagine it is now.

 

[kouroux]

Any delivery from Shaw is garbage but Alonso or Young consistently provide telling crosses? You are exaggerating. And an overlap doesn’t need to end with a good whipped ball in to be good play. Crosses from deep (relatively, against set defenders facing away from their goal) have to be good or it’s just infuriating, unimaginative and dull football - and unless you have Beckham that is the case the vast majority of the time. Willing runners - overlaps, third-man runs, one-twos - provide the means to move defenders about, to break their set lines, create gaps and get them turning which is itself good play. Evra and Dani Alves were both ridiculously wayward with their crosses and were still assets for their clubs.

Again, Shaw didn’t exactly provide a barnstorming presence down our left side during Young’s suspension but he did take a few carefully chosen opportunities to open the legs a bit and it made a difference. Coupled with his defensive solidity - through his athleticism and cautious positioning generally - his play was similar to Valencia’s and showed something to work with and work on. He didn’t get to keep his place, and there were no hints of off the ball running at all during his half against Brighton. Ironically, it would seem Mourinho was looking for him to provide exactly that. If his time here wasn’t unsalvageable before that game I’d imagine it is now.

At the very least they are better than him

 

[haram]

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Well well well.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

May be do a Shaw/Rose swap with Spurs in the summer? Shaw can reunited with his manager Poch, and Rose can get the pay raise he want for a long time.

 

[Vault Dweller]

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Well well well.

THAT'S the response he needed to show, good to see.

 

[FootyGirl88]

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Well well well.

There's something very strange about this chap.

 

[Catt]

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Well well well.

Just met him on my daily round.

 

[Swift Football]

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Well well well.

Probably Shaw thinks Jose wont be here beyond next season and is ready to wait and take risk of not playing for a whole season ( he is not playing much now anyways). And maybe he wont compromise his wages either.

 

[breakout67]

Is Shaw's fitness the actual problem here? He just looks lost on the pitch, and doesn't provide much quality on the ball.

As far as I'm concerned, Shaw's physical qualities are quite good. He's very good in the air, difficult to push off the ball, has pace for days.

Shaw's positioning isn't good, and that is what I think he needs to improve.

 

[Revaulx]

Sir Alex knew when to put his arm around the shoulder of his players and had that father-child relationship with a lot of them. LVG was more similar to Mourinho, complain, blame and hope for the best.

Not true regarding Shaw.

LvG called him out for arriving unfit and overweight. He then went on to praise him for the effort he was putting in to sort himself out.

He was also full of praise for Shaw’s desire to get back from the leg break.

 

[haram]

Is Shaw's fitness the actual problem here? He just looks lost on the pitch, and doesn't provide much quality on the ball.

As far as I'm concerned, Shaw's physical qualities are quite good. He's very good in the air, difficult to push off the ball, has pace for days.

Shaw's positioning isn't good, and that is what I think he needs to improve.

Tbf even when he gets into good advanced positions his final ball isn't good enough anyway

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Comments seem to align with what people have been saying re Jose, that hes frustrated as he thinks he can be a player.

Bit weird hassling Young over it though, was this with England?

Someone on radio Manchester said it’s clear Mourinho really rates him but wants more and then said they bet Darnian wishes he got all this attention from the manager.

 

[TheReligion]

This is one of those "I know someone who knows someone who knows him" things.. make of it what you will..

Apparently he's not that fussed about football in general. It's just a job to him and nothing more. Would go some way to explain the question marks about his motivation/professionalism.

Could be nonsense but thought I'd share.

 

[Santoryo]

Yeah only Mourinho has called out Shaw for his work rate and attitude in public.

When did Jose call out Shaw for his work rate? Genuine question. I want to know if some of you guys are just repeating what you've heard on the Internet, following a trend kinda like hive mind or if you really know what you're talking about.

It's well known Jose has been critical of Shaw but nowhere has he ever mention anything about his work rate or even attitude. It's mostly been about tactics etc.

So I'd really love to hear your answer otherwise you're just repeating what you've heard and simply don't know what you're talking about.

 

[kundalini]

When did Jose call out Shaw for his work rate? Genuine question. I want to know if some of you guys are just repeating what you've heard on the Internet, following a trend kinda like hive mind or if you really know what you're talking about.

It's well known Jose has been critical of Shaw but nowhere has he ever mention anything about his work rate or even attitude. It's mostly been about tactics etc.

So I'd really love to hear your answer otherwise you're just repeating what you've heard and simply don't know what you're talking about.

Mourinho said: "It's difficult for him to be on the bench. Because I cannot compare him with Ashley Young, or with Matteo Darmian, or with Daley Blind.

"I cannot compare the way he trains, the way he commits, the focus, the ambition. I cannot compare. He is a long way behind." (early April 2017)

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...nchester-united-team-mates-says-jose-mourinho

This is one of those "I know someone who knows someone who knows him" things.. make of it what you will..

Apparently he's not that fussed about football in general. It's just a job to him and nothing more. Would go some way to explain the question marks about his motivation/professionalism.

Could be nonsense but thought I'd share.

Duncan Castles does a podcast with another journalist. I listen to the section on Luke Shaw. It was brutal. There was a mention of Graeme Souness' comment "show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser" (I may have got that slightly wrong). Also top level sport being a tough environment. They weren't convinced Shaw has the personality for it. 5 assists in his career to date, criticism of his attacking, his weight, his agent planting stories in the press about Luke being one of the fittest players at United (apparently Castles asked his contacts at United for comment on this story and they just laughed) etc.

https://audioboom.com/posts/6735077...n-the-move-aaron-ramsay-next-to-leave-arsenal

 

[Tapori]

Shaws youth coach at Southampton was spot on.
I'd encourage everyone to listen to him on that BBC 5 live show
Backs Mourinho essentially, and says Shaw was always difficult to get the best out of and always needed
"to be pushed; he likes that, he needs that challenge."
because he was so good naturally through the levels relying on pure natural physique and pace at the level he played at but at United here is the highest level and for that you need to improve positional play AND put in that hard work. Pace won't be enough.

Agreed defensively Shaw has been found out at the high level and needs to improve.
Says best approach is arm round the shoulder, a cuddle and then a kick up the backside to push on and develop.

Thinks Shaw should stay and work harder to realise his potential and that Mourinho wouldn't persevere or care if Shaw didn't have any ability to do well. Just needs to buckle down, show he really f'in wants it and learns the game.

Says he can see United have tried everything and this is probably Jose using one last push to get Shaw to understand the work required is immense but that he has a place if he actually wants it.

The most telling thing he said was this:
"he's never faced criticism before and this is the first time in his career he's been questioned"

 

[villain]

When did Jose call out Shaw for his work rate? Genuine question. I want to know if some of you guys are just repeating what you've heard on the Internet, following a trend kinda like hive mind or if you really know what you're talking about.

It's well known Jose has been critical of Shaw but nowhere has he ever mention anything about his work rate or even attitude. It's mostly been about tactics etc.

So I'd really love to hear your answer otherwise you're just repeating what you've heard and simply don't know what you're talking about.

I was literally being sarcastic in response to the post I was quoting.
So you should ask that guy

 

[RedPnutz]

You see on these type of things I don't really blame the manager, he doesn't have the time to do it but I definitely blame the supposed leaders in the locker room, they are the ones supposed to push the younger players and the players that need pushing, they are supposed to establish standards and make sure that everyone respect them.

When do we start blaming the player himself though?

 

[RedPnutz]

What does calling him out in public achieve over a personal conversation? Can’t this be done in private?

Mourinho is calling out Luke Shaw to millions of people, saying that he almost begs to come off. I’m pretty sure he called him out last season too. Maybe Jose should realize that Shaw won’t be good enough for what he demands and leave it be.

How do we know this hasn’t been done in private already many times? Do we believe manager’s never communicate with players except in public? There are poor performers that Jose doesn’t call out. The common point seems to be that he is calling out those that probably has a high ceiling but are performing way below par.

 

[RedPnutz]

But what has he done wrong? Wasn't he performing when Young was out? If he'd shown horrendous form during those games and a shite attitude, then it would be more than understandable. However, it's been the opposite from what we can see.
For the life of me I cannot see what Mourinho wants from him that he thinks Young is providing all the time. Young has made mistakes and not been great except for the Liverpool game, yet Mourinho hasn't treated him like this.

It's all a puzzle.

It’s pretty simple isn’t it? If you are a teacher and see a student capable of achieving so much but he doesn’t apply himself, you’d be frustrated. Arbitrarily, I see Young as a 70/100 player and Shaw maybe a potential 85/100 player. But if Shaw continuously puts in 60-65 performances like Young does, that’s a problem.

 

[beergod]

Duncan Castles does a podcast with another journalist. I listen to the section on Luke Shaw. It was brutal. There was a mention of Graeme Souness' comment "show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser" (I may have got that slightly wrong). Also top level sport being a tough environment. They weren't convinced Shaw has the personality for it. 5 assists in his career to date, criticism of his attacking, his weight, his agent planting stories in the press about Luke being one of the fittest players at United (apparently Castles asked his contacts at United for comment on this story and they just laughed) etc.

https://audioboom.com/posts/6735077...n-the-move-aaron-ramsay-next-to-leave-arsenal

Brutal doesn't even begin to describe it. They slaughtered him and didn't stop butchering him until the segment ended.

 

[JPRouve]

When do we start blaming the player himself though?

Whenever you want, my post don't prevent it.

 

[AP88]

Said it previously and maintain it - I’m not sure Shaw’s strengths are suited to being a leftback anymore. He’s a great passer, fast good tackler and good in the air, but modern fullbacks need to be more going forward and his output is shambolic in that regard - his crossing is woeful. The only way he can sustain there is if he plays the role the way Pep has utilised Delph and Zinchenko there this season - inverting to become an extra midfielder with orthodox width ahead of him. And i don’t think that’s what Jose wants.

He’s probably going to go, but I’d have liked to have seen him at least trialed as a left-sided central defender before does - his skillset would allow him to potentially become a decent ball-playing central defender in the Blind mould, but with the physicality to dominate duels too.

 

[MUFC OK]

Jose's treatment of luke has been harsh but I really wouldn't lose too much sleep if he is moved on. He has never looked in good physical shape, is clearly carrying excess weight and his attitude has been questioned in the past. For me it is inexcusable for a professional footballer to not be physically well conditioned, considering the nature of the job and with all the access to dieticians, personal trainers etc that they could desire.

Luke is a talented player, but world class players need to be devoted, dedicated and determined to become the best, think the likes of Beckham and Ronaldo who were constantly looking to improve. He could learn a lot from someone like Gary Neville as regards what it takes to be a fullback for United. Looks like we will cut our losses if a decent offer comes in for him though.

 

[sunama]

I admire some loons who thought his absence after the injury was a big reason for us being shit. Shame about the injury but he is absolutely average.

I do remember this.
When he got injured, some declared him as the best LB in the country. As the injury wore on, he became the best LB in the World and some stated that had he not been injured, we'd have won the league.
They somehow managed to convince themselves that our lack of goal scoring would be solved by a defender/LB.

In any case, I think Shaw, like Memphis, needs to man up and tell the boss to find him a new club. He needs to restart/reset his career. At MUFC, it is clear that his career has completely stalled (and some will say, gone backwards) and he needs a fresh start.

Personally, I think his standard is Southampton. He'll be a big fish (no pun intended), in a small pond and he can do well for them.

 

[sunama]

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Well well well.

Well, this is excellent news.
IF this is true, then Shaw has decided that he wants to fight for his MUFC career.
And if he genuinely does put in extra training sessions, then Jose will be beaming. Jose loves grafters, even if those grafters aren't particularly good.
As long as a player is willing to run through brick walls for the team and manager, Jose will reward that player.

I'm not a fan of Shaw, but if Shaw can prove to Jose that he is willing to out-work everybody else in the team, I hope he gets a run of games and does well. I'd love to see a hard working, lean Luke Shaw, doing well for MUFC.
What I don't like seeing is Shaw doing the bare minimum, getting fat and expecting to get into the team. << this is the type of player which I want to see sold off.

 

[AR87]

I'll care about Shaw putting in extra sessions when it results in him looking like the player we were hoping for when we bought him 4 years ago.

 

[Full bodied red]

Watching England tonight, it's difficult to see why JM appears to be ready to ditch Shaw and replace him with Rose.

Well....As far as what happens on the pitch goes....

 

[Nick7]

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Well well well.

This happens literally every time after negative news stories come out in the papers about him.

 

[Garethw]

Watching England tonight, it's difficult to see why JM appears to be ready to ditch Shaw and replace him with Rose.

Well....As far as what happens on the pitch goes....

Rose was absolute shite wasn’t he?

Mourinho and Woodward need dropping off at the funny farm if they are willing to pay anywhere close to £50 million for him. Bang average player.

 

[balaks]

Rose was absolute shite wasn’t he?

Mourinho and Woodward need dropping off at the funny farm if they are willing to pay anywhere close to £50 million for him. Bang average player.

Rose has regressed about 3 years this season.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

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Well well well.

If true, and I think it is, nice one.

Thing is, his recent two performances is not so sharp compare to his early season form up until end of Jan/Feb. His play and number of performances before that (10+ games) is so sharp and consistently good, very good actually both in attacks and defends. Not so much in the recent two where he's less reactive to dangers and the speed of his play while it's still fast, not so sharp as before, could've been sharper. It's clear when he plays, our attacks are more balance since he provides that left width always. Hopefully this break do him wonders getting that sharp form back, and since Valencia's form is bad, Young may play RB and him getting chance at LB. We need him.

 

[#07]

This happens literally every time after negative news stories come out in the papers about him.

This.

When Cristiano Ronaldo has been in the gym you don't need to read about it in the papers. You can look at him and tell.

I'll buy the reports if Luke Shaw looks like a white Tony V when he next plays for United.

Until then I'll treat these reports like the ones of the players being shocked at Mou's supposed bullying.

You read that latest Pique interview and its clear that a lot of these are lucky Keano & co. aren't in the dressing room. A lot of marshmallow toasting would go on...