Players to bin - April 2018 edition

[DomesticTadpole]

Can't argue with that - heads us towards a rather more balanced view though.

I was also going to say that the players have some responsibility for themselves & within themselves - but you just done that, .

I reckon style of play & recruitment are entirely valid concerns though, as do the majority here too, I think.

Problem is you don't always know how a player will deal with playing for Manchester United. A dream big name player might fail miserably. Someone who everyone thought was going to be a squad player might turn into the star. It is all hit and miss and you cannot always presume their attitude will suit United.

 

[montpelier]

Problem is you don't always know how a player will deal with playing for Manchester United. A dream big name player might fail miserably. Someone who everyone thought was going to be a squad player might turn into the star. It is all hit and miss and you cannot always presume their attitude will suit United.

I was maybe meaning without saying that any new arrivals are being dropped into a squad that is a bit mish-mash in the style of play it / they prefer, but you are right again too, obviously.

3 big names & comparatively recent - Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez - I just don't see it.

And going back to the thread theme - many of the commonest 'deadwood' names are not helping to increase the potential thrill level - limitations of movement, either of ball or people - not sure how much of that is down to the Manager.

If you want to get very excited, those 3 big buys I just listed could even be labelled as looking a bit panicky maybe. (are those all on Mourinho? they're under his name)

But get 8 better players in & the whole ethos might change parallel to the style of play dramatically improving. They are all interlocking issues that may still not be easily resolved.

I just don't believe the ''change the manager, all the problems go away'' point of view.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I was maybe meaning without saying that any new arrivals are being dropped into a squad that is a bit mish-mash in the style of play it / they prefer, but you are right again too, obviously.

3 big names & comparatively recent - Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez - I just don't see it.

And going back to the thread theme - many of the commonest 'deadwood' names are not helping to increase the potential thrill level - limitations of movement, either of ball or people - not sure how much of that is down to the Manager.

If you want to get very excited, those 3 big buys I just listed could even be labelled as looking a bit panicky maybe. (are those all on Mourinho? they're under his name)

But get 8 better players in & the whole ethos might change parallel to the style of play dramatically improving. They are all interlocking issues that may still not be easily resolved.

I just don't believe the ''change the manager, all the problems go away'' point of view.

We aren't going to get 8 players in one transfer window though, so that could be another season where we are out of touch.

 

[Offsideagain]

Rojo, Jones, Lindelof for a start. Pogba must be worried. Valencia and Young are getting on a bit but we seriously need two real full backs.

 

[Enigma_87]

Actively sell / let leave:
Blind
Darmian
Shaw
Jones
Young
Valencia
Smalling
Fellaini
Carrick

Consider selling at right price:
Martial
Mata
Rojo
Herrera


Obviously we won't sell 9 players but really don't see any place for the first group.

Getting a new pair of full backs should be absolute priority, alongside a dynamic B2B next to Matic.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

People are going mad in here. There won't be wholesale changes.

I would let go of Darmian, Blind and Shaw as they've lost the trust of the manager.

Then bring in another full back to help out Young and another striker to give Lukaku competition as it looks like Jose doesn't want Rashford doing that yet.

Give martial and pogs another chance.

 

[Ludens the Red]

More than anyone, Coaches decide the work rate. Check how Klopp and Poch sides work, which ever club they coach, their work rate is high because that's how they train and that's how they play.

Why was this not a problem for Mourinho at any of his previous clubs? bar his last year at Chelsea.
How come every year since Fergie left have we seen these same issues with work rate and accountability in our squad ?

I think you'll also find Pep and klopp have binned off the players they had who couldn't cut it. If anything I'd say our managers including Mourinho haven't been ruthless enough with certain players. Look how long Rooney got away with his shit shows.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Well put. I find it very strange when people talk about Pogba and Martial doing better in other teams due to being a certain profile of player.

The reality is that Pogba and Martial are very difficult to fit into a system and so flourish under pragmatic managers that adapt their system to their qualities.

I would say that Rashford is far more suited to a Guardiola system, due to his usage of space and work rate. He is a similar profile to Pedro and Sterling. Martial would also get nowhere near a Klopp team due to his limited pressing qualities.

Exactly, agree with those examples too. It's just all a bit weird because Mourinho is actually a lot less demanding than Klopp and Pep but that seems to have gone over people's heads.

 

[roonster09]

Why was this not a problem for Mourinho at any of his previous clubs? bar his last year at Chelsea.
How come every year since Fergie left have we seen these same issues with work rate and accountability in our squad ?

I think you'll also find Pep and klopp have binned off the players they had who couldn't cut it. If anything I'd say our managers including Mourinho haven't been ruthless enough with certain players. Look how long Rooney got away with his shit shows.

Jose's team are not known for their workrate like Klopp's and Poch's, even Pep team cover lot of distance. All these teams press high and with lot of movement. Jose's team drop deep and maintain shape to win the ball. So distance covered will be less.

Regarding offloading players, it won't make much difference.

 

[Canagel]

I do always have a big chuckle when I see people on here say Pogba would be great under Pep.
I swear people just ignore what they actually see and come up with shit that suits their point or agenda.
Guardiola has binned far better players than Pogba because they couldn't keep up with his very particular demands.

You think Pep will stand for Pogbas carelessness? Or his lack of back tracking back? You get people on here slagging off Mourinho saying he's making Martial and Pogba do too much defensive work when they shouldn't.
Have you fecking seen De Bruyne? Sterling? At all this season.

Pep has been ruthless at city, I'm not even one to blow smoke up his arse as a lot of cafe folk do but anyone who couldn't keep up with the physical and mental demands of his football last season was binned. Sagna, Clichy, Zabaleta, Toure etc. No room for sentiment for one of city's best players or the club captain. Nobody got two years to adapt, they were straight out, even Bravo who he signed.

But somehow Pep in this fantasy world will tolerate Pogba picking and choosing when he can be arsed to play well?
Even Klopp, his midfielders are all stamina and work rate, none particularly creative, but yeah Pogba would be ideal for him.

He just called him a top player last week so of course he could play for Pep. These things happen very quickly. I remember Liverpool had significantly higher work rate in Klopps first game. The FIRST game. Away to Spurs. The style of counter pressing was already being implemented after one game. It depends on what the coach's idea is. Pogba would without a shadow of a doubt be tearing it apart at Man City or even Liverpool.

 

[Josep Dowling]

I do always have a big chuckle when I see people on here say Pogba would be great under Pep.
I swear people just ignore what they actually see and come up with shit that suits their point or agenda.
Guardiola has binned far better players than Pogba because they couldn't keep up with his very particular demands.

You think Pep will stand for Pogbas carelessness? Or his lack of back tracking back? You get people on here slagging off Mourinho saying he's making Martial and Pogba do too much defensive work when they shouldn't.
Have you fecking seen De Bruyne? Sterling? At all this season.

Pep has been ruthless at city, I'm not even one to blow smoke up his arse as a lot of cafe folk do but anyone who couldn't keep up with the physical and mental demands of his football last season was binned. Sagna, Clichy, Zabaleta, Toure etc. No room for sentiment for one of city's best players or the club captain. Nobody got two years to adapt, they were straight out, even Bravo who he signed.

But somehow Pep in this fantasy world will tolerate Pogba picking and choosing when he can be arsed to play well?
Even Klopp, his midfielders are all stamina and work rate, none particularly creative, but yeah Pogba would be ideal for him.

This is completely spot on. The problem with this group of players is the urgency and accuracy at which they play.

The amount of off place passes by our team is shocking. There’s is also no off the ball movment by most of the midfield. It just becomes easy to defend against.

The last few seasons it’s felt like the squad tries for the first two months. Then results start to dip and their heads drop. Then we are so far behind the players are already thinking about next season.

 

[Zlatattack]

Definitely out
Darmain - replace with TFM
Blind - replace with Mitchell
Fellaini - replace with new CM or Pereira
Shaw - replace with first choice LB
Young - replace with first choice Right winger
Valencia - Replace with first choice RB
Carrick - replace with new CM
1 of Smalling/Jones/Rojo - replace with first choice CB

That's 8.

I think we should bite the bullet and get rid of as many of these as we can this summer. At least 3 of those are upgraded internally, the rest is pretty in line with what everyone wants.

Next summer we should consider Mata and Herrera (maybe we can upgrade internally with Chong and Gomes or maybe we can just let them go) and consider swapping our weakest CB with Taunzebe (if he's good enough for a squad place). Of course the youngsters should only be in the squad if they are worthy of it. No scope for tokenism.

 

[P-Nut]

With all this chatter about players not being good enough, still lurking dead-wood, etc.

In the summer transfer window 2018: which names do you let go, no explanations, just cold hard names. Realistic. Split into these buckets:

Actively sell / let leave:
Blind
Darmian
Shaw
Smalling
Fellaini
Carrick

Consider selling at right price:
Martial
Mata
Herrera
Valencia
Young
Pogba
DDG (not out of choice)

Actively sell / let leave:
Blind
Darmian
Smalling
Fellaini
Carrick
Young

Consider selling at right price:
Mata
Rojo

That's if I was manager, however you can certainly swap Shaw and Young if you're being realistic. Also no chance Smalling goes first out of the CBs, Jose seems to like him and his commitment.

Mata is a strange one, we play miles better with him in the side, but we shouldn't need to sacrifice a flank in order to add a bit of control.

 

[SidRed]

The Bin Guys:
Mata
Shaw
Darmian
Blind.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Darmian and Blind are the main ones, absolutely no use.

Otherwise we could do with an improvement pretty much everywhere. Especially fullbacks.

 

[crossy1686]

Rojo, Jones, Lindelof for a start. Pogba must be worried. Valencia and Young are getting on a bit but we seriously need two real full backs.

I would put solid money on next season being the last season at United for either Jose or Pogba.

 

[OLLY ORANGE]

Sell/release - Valencia, young, mata, blind, Damian, fellaini, smalling, lingard, Herrera, carrick
Consider if right bids come in - Shaw, Jones, lindelof, Pogba

 

[Andycoleno9]

The players are not the problem, selling/buying won't help us.

That is the spirit

 

[Sterling Archer]

It's a shorter task to list who to keep -

De Gea (s)
Romero
Joel

Bailly (s)
Rojo

Matic (s)
Mata
McTominay
Lingard
Pogba (s)

Rashford
Lukaku (s)
Sanchez (s)

(S) is considered for starting eleven. That leaves 5 new faces for starting berths .

 

[breakout67]

I never understand when some one says the players aren't the problem as if they are one single entity.

Players can always be improved upon no matter what the manager. That is what top clubs do, they are always looking to improve their team and always look at the long term health of the team.

No matter who the manager is, our first choice fullbacks should never be 30-something refashioned wingers. Players like Darmian and Fellaini should never be important figures in the squad and should be moved on. Someone like Mata should not be your go to man on the right side of the attack.

 

[Damien]

It's a shorter task to list who to keep -

De Gea (s)
Romero
Joel

Bailly (s)
Rojo

Matic (s)
Mata
McTominay
Lingard
Pogba (s)

Rashford
Lukaku (s)
Sanchez (s)

(S) is considered for starting eleven. That leaves 5 new faces for starting berths .

You'd get rid of Fosu-Mensah?

 

[Jibbs]

Actively sell / let leave:
Blind
Darmian
Shaw
Smalling or Jones
Fellaini
Carrick
Pogba

Consider selling at right price:
Martial (only a swap or +cash deal for Eriksen)
DDG (not out of choice)

Consider Loaning
Martial (to Juve or Bayern on a 2 year deal after getting him signed a new 5 year deal)

 

[Sterling Archer]

You'd get rid of Fosu-Mensah?

Oops! I forgot about him and most of the other players on loan .

I'd categorically include them all on the keep list only because I haven't kept up with their loan spells enough to decide .

 

[ManRant]

Actively sell / let leave:
Martial
Herrera
Fellaini (CONTRACT)
Carrick (CONTRACT)
Valencia

Consider selling at right price:

Mata
Blind
Darmian
Shaw

 

[Ludens the Red]

Jose's team are not known for their workrate like Klopp's and Poch's, even Pep team cover lot of distance. All these teams press high and with lot of movement. Jose's team drop deep and maintain shape to win the ball. So distance covered will be less.

Regarding offloading players, it won't make much difference.

Mourinhos teams are not known for work rate ? What? As in what? His Chelsea, inter and Real Madrid teams lacked work rate? Really?
Work rate isn't just high pressing. I know people are obsessed with it but other things are factored into work rate. Marking people properly from corners, making space for yourself, tracking back, making runs, coming towards the ball to receive a pass as opposed to standing still waiting for it (Martial) etc etc .

He just called him a top player last week so of course he could play for Pep. These things happen very quickly. I remember Liverpool had significantly higher work rate in Klopps first game. The FIRST game. Away to Spurs. The style of counter pressing was already being implemented after one game. It depends on what the coach's idea is. Pogba would without a shadow of a doubt be tearing it apart at Man City or even Liverpool.

I would think most teams have higher work rate in the first game of a new manager because they're keen to make an impression.
Let's not pretend Liverpool were smashing it in klopps first season, they were average to mediocre for the most part despite reaching two finals. It wasn't until Klopp brought in a few more players was he able to get them fully functioning. He also inherited a squad of players with good engine, Milner, Henderson, Firmino. These players have always been workers regardless of manager.
Pogba would be a disaster at Liverpool and City, he'd also not get into the team on account of his lack of discipline and lack of work rate . Imagine Pep or Klopp on the touch line when Pogba can't be bothered to run back and track a runner?

 

[Chipper]

Active:
Darmian
Shaw
Carrick (retiring)


Right price:
Everyone has a right price, but mostly....

Rojo - doubt we'll get an offer, wouldn't miss him at all if he left
Martial - if he's unhappy here
Romero - if he got a nice offer of first team football after the world cup and wanted it I wouldn't want us to stand in his way, I like him
Blind - meh


I'd like us to work something out with Fellaini but won't cry if he leaves.

 

[AltiUn]

I'll exclude Carrick as he's retiring so without him, these would be my personal picks:

Fellaini - Think his contract is expiring at the end of the season, he's been useful but barely had a kick this season due to injury, McTominay has been filling his role in the squad admirably so he'll leave for me.

Smalling - Don't think he's close to being good enough for what we want to achieve personally, he's decent but we've got too much "decent". He can defend 1 on 1 fairly well but he has poor positioning, can't organise a defence or play out of the back. He's got plenty of experience and we could easily get a good fee for him.

Mata - He's likeable but I don't think he's ever really lived up to expectations here, he's often been played out of position and we've struggled to accomodate him. Think he's very symbolic of our struggles post SAF, he was a luxury player who could never quite turn a game on its head consistently. He's very talented but little room to improve in his 30s, at times been a big part of why that right hand side has been so impotent. Simply has to go for me.

Blind - Barely plays but has a lot of ability, think we'd be able to get a half decent fee for him

Darmian - He's nowhere near United standard, can't defend or attack, getting rid is the only logical choice

Too much squad turnover could be very costly at the start of the season, having a settled squad is important to challenge for the League. I wouldn't sell Pogba or DDG under any circumstances for any price. With that said, some (and I emphasise that as maybe 1 or 2 of the following will leave) I could see being sold if the price is right:

Shaw - He hasn't worked out at all here, still young, might have a bit of resale value and we're rumoured to be in the market for a LB. Attitude hasn't been great and always seems to run to the press when things aren't going his way, his injury was a set back and I empathise with him but 2 years on there aren't any excuses now. I'd sell him personally.

Martial - Unhappy with his playing time, he's got a lot of talent but we could potentially get a sizeable fee for him. I'd like him to stay as I think he's one of our most entertaining players, but when he's bad he's really bad. If he starts a game off poorly he very rarely recovers, if he wants to leave I don't think we should stand in his way.

A.Pereira - Left instead of waiting for his chance, whether that's a good call or not remains to be seen, but judging from McTominay's time AP would've been better off staying here. He won't be missed as he was barely a squad player for us.

Jones - Talented but injury prone, could definitely see him being shown the door if we get a good enough replacement in or perhaps promote Tuanzebe instead of signing an alternative.

Herrera - Passionate but very limited, he was great last season in the role Matic is currently playing but Matic is better in nearly every way. He's a bit of a **** hero and seems to give his all on the pitch but he can really be a liability at times.

 

[RedDevil5]

Sell/Let go
-Darmian
-Carrick
-Fellani
-Shaw
-Pogba if we get a good price/swap deal. Tired of watching his shite most games, can be world class but is so lazy and arrogant at times. Have no doubt he and Mourinho have fallen out.
-Maybe one of Rojo/Jones

 

[reddaz71]

Darmian
Blind
Shaw
Fellaini
Jones
Mata

 

[sunama]

I am sure there was a tweet that said he had told Ed the three players he wants. If we got rid of eleven and brought in three, it would leave us just a tad short of players.

That's a good point.

 

[An Irish Red]

Actively sell / let leave:
Blind
Darmian
Shaw
Fellaini
Carrick
McTominay

Consider selling at right price:
Young
Pogba
Rashford
Lindelof

 

[RedTillI'mDead]

Well, other than DDG and possibly Lukaku, none of our players are indispensable.

Even Lukaku I'd swap with money for Kane

 

[sunama]

I like to put a positive spin on things so I start with those players I'd keep....

1) DDG

Then I'm struggling.

 

[cyril C]

Active sell/OUT : Carrick, Fellaini, Darmian, Blind, Shaw - replace with 2 quality CMF and 1 LB, 1 CB.
Won't stop them leaving : Mata, Jones - Need 1 on 1 replacement.
100m Cash or otherwise buzz off : DDG, Martial, Rashford

I argue against selling Young or Valencia. Let them stay on as backup squad player, in case we have another Shaw/Darmian/Blind version 2.

 

[anant]

Actively sell / let leave:
Blind
Darmian
Shaw
1 of Smalling or Jones
Fellaini
Carrick

we can't afford to lose any more players than this lot. We can't realistically bring in 6 or 7 players.

This.

 

[roonster09]

Mourinhos teams are not known for work rate ? What? As in what? His Chelsea, inter and Real Madrid teams lacked work rate? Really?
Work rate isn't just high pressing. I know people are obsessed with it but other things are factored into work rate. Marking people properly from corners, making space for yourself, tracking back, making runs, coming towards the ball to receive a pass as opposed to standing still waiting for it (Martial) etc etc .

Jose's team are not known for their work rate, they are known for how tactically drilled his team is, how mentally focused his teams were.

Also regarding player not making runs or making a move to receive pass, then the blame should be on coach. If these things are still there after 2 years, then it's easy to see how well we are trained as a team.

Forget high press and all that, when the team makes almost 0 movements off the ball and plays as if they are playing together for the first time then you have to question the coach and how good his methods are.

 

[roonster09]

I do always have a big chuckle when I see people on here say Pogba would be great under Pep.
I swear people just ignore what they actually see and come up with shit that suits their point or agenda.
Guardiola has binned far better players than Pogba because they couldn't keep up with his very particular demands.
.

Eh? Pogba played under Conte and Allegri, was key player for Juventus who are one of the most tactically drilled teams in Europe. He didn't have problems playing under Conte who expects insane work rate from everyone.

Edit: Check the distance covered stats for 2014-15 season.
Pogba was in top 30 when it comes to distance covered per mins stats published by UEFA.
https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/uefaorg/General/02/40/05/13/2400513_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Pep's Bayern had Alonso and Vidal above Pogba and both covered 6 meters more per min which means over 90 min it's around 500 meters more.

 

[AngliaRed]

Valencia
Smalling
Jones
Fellaini
shaw ( use him or sell him)

People saying Blind alot. He hasn’t played much but he’s a very tidy ball player and gets the ball forward quicker than most. His only weak point is his speed. I would certainly keep him, same as Darmian, give them a start tomorrow.

 

[SteveW]

I can understand your hate for Smalling(kind of), but you do realise he is literally our only defender who can stay fit, and is actually available all the time unlike all others who are injured all the time. And yet, you don't think any of them should be sold, let alone sold ahead of him? I mean, please try to explain me any logic behind that.

It's incredibly stupid. Out of around 10 senior defenders the one on everybody's list to sell is the one who's been our best and most reliable defender for the last few seasons. They guy is first choice and starts every game and he's the one people want to sell? Honestly can't get my head around it.

 

[King_Cantona07]

It's incredibly stupid. Out of around 10 senior defenders the one on everybody's list to sell is the one who's been our best and most reliable defender for the last few seasons. They guy is first choice and starts every game and he's the one people want to sell? Honestly can't get my head around it.

For all his ready for game pro, there is con that he is the reason for lack of urgency in build up as all his passes go right to Valencia 80 percent of time and we know what happens after that. He is technically incompetent to open passing lines to midfield player.