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if his scoring numbers were better, we would not play in a 2 as we could sacrifice the 10. that's the pointWhat midfielder gets 15 goals a season while playing in a midfield two?
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if his scoring numbers were better, we would not play in a 2 as we could sacrifice the 10. that's the pointWhat midfielder gets 15 goals a season while playing in a midfield two?
No doubt. His passing has been far better than his finishing/long shots since he has been here. literally the opposite to what I expected funny enough.Pogba's numbers is very good for a center midfielder, for a player who don't take penalties and set pieces. Weird thing to criticise him for.
He does some stupid things in our half, when he pulls it off he gets so much space and takes 3-4 players out of the game but at the same time when he loses the ball he ends up looking like an idiot. You can criticise him for that as it's risky to try in own half but when it comes to numbers, it's good for a player who played most of the time in midfield 2.
if his numbers were better, we would not play in a 2 as we could sacrifice the 10. that's the point
Maybe people overestimate him and think he has the talent to do this. People see him more b2b than DLP and an attacking presence. the reality is that the City performance is not the norm, but for some reason in England we think that is his status quo and he can be like Lamps or Gerrard, getting on the end of things and deciding games etc. Its a misjudgementWhich top midfielder scores 15-20 goals a season? Iniesta doesn't. Kroos doesn't. Modric doesn't. D Silva doesn't. People need to stop these unrealistic demands from midfielders. Pogba never scored 15 goals in a season at Juventus. Infact Pogba's output is very good and he had a better minutes per goal/assist ratio than KDB this season so I don't understand that at all.
if his numbers were better, we would not play in a 2 as we could sacrifice the 10. that's the point
Maybe people overestimate him and think he has the talent to do this. People see him more b2b than DLP and an attacking presence. the reality is that the City performance is not the norm, but for some reason in England we think that is his status quo and he can be like Lamps or Gerrard, getting on the end of things and deciding games etc. Its a misjudgement
Pogba scores about 1 in 5 for us. Lampard scored 1 in 3, played further up the pitch and was the first choice penalty taker.
He played in a 3 at Juve and never hit those numebers. But yeah his numbers have been good, its the consistency of play that holds him back and also the indifferent performances and those when he looks one of our worst players. Its like Rooney. Players of this level should not be a so sub par for a 90 minute game so frequently.If I'm honest I think Pogba might be able to get 15 without too much trouble, he only played 2/3 of this season and got 6. Suppose he then played all season, then that turns into 9. Suppose we play a midfield 3 all season. Then I can see him getting 15. 6 goals 10 assists in 25 games in not bad at all. I he played all 38 say keeping up that rate, he'd have have finished on 9 goals and 15 assists, thats great for a central midfielder. For context De Bruyne got 8 goals 16 assists in 36 appearances, and in a more attacking team. So yeah. I don't think Pogba needs to improve going forward too much at all, its defensively, he needs to shown more graft and tenacity at times, show a bit more effort in running back to defend than he sometimes does.
Its not really though at all and is a false equivalence. for one we have played him in a free in periods so it is something the manager can be willing to do. secondly he played in a 3 in Italy and was not this type of player. Vidal was the one banging them in.Thats like saying if your left back starts scoring at a winger's rate, you wouldnt play a winger. Unless your system allows the player to get into the right position, he will not be scoring the goals. There is no midfielder in the world who can score 15 goals while playing in a midfield two.
Frank is harsh, but he is only harsh because he thinks so highly of Pogba.
Still a bit short sample size and also need to see who they games were against and what was the tactial set up. some formations may have been used more frequently in defensive lock up shop games due to Jose tactical instruction e.g. Spurs away. I need a bigger sample size to make a fair judgementthis season his performances when played in midfield 2 vs Midfield 3.
Midfield 2 - 1591 mins - 1 goal + 6 assists (227 mins per G+A)
Midfield 3 - 1013 mins - 6 goals + 5 assists (92 mins per G+A)
When played in midfield 3 his productivity is so much better.
In Just PL:
Midfield 2: 1253 mins - 6 G+A (208 mins per G+A)
Midfield 3: 713 mins - 10 G+A (71 mins per G+A)
"Mourinho tried to embarrass him out of it and I worry Pogba did not get it."
There's plenty to disagree with in that. Six goals and twelve assists are good numbers for a central midfielder. After the City quad, Paul Pogba had the most assists in the league.
Even at his best in a dominant Juventus side the most goals he scored in a single season was 8. The idea that he should easily be hitting 15+ - which would make him the 5th top scorer in the league - is absolutely silly.
And all of this is even without the context of how much synergy and cohesion our attack lacks.
Not sure why any of that means he can't be expected to get more? Are you saying Pogba can't play the Lampard role or isn't being asked to?
The latter I'd agree with partially but thats probably where we're now expecting him to play.
He's shown he can't do the box to box disciplined role so if he wants the freedom to roam then he needs to get close to those numbers.
It's fine to expect more. It's not fine to state that a player should easily be getting more. We're not some free-flowing machine - we often play tumescent football and essentially every attacker in our team suffers due to it. Part is down to them, but a big part has to be down to tactics.Not sure why any of that means he can't be expected to get more? Are you saying Pogba can't play the Lampard role or isn't being asked to?
The latter I'd agree with partially but thats probably where we're now expecting him to play.
He's shown he can't do the box to box disciplined role so if he wants the freedom to roam then he needs to get close to those numbers.
It's fine to expect more. It's not fine to state that a player should easily be getting more. We're not some free-flowing machine - we often play tumescent football and essentially every attacker in our team suffers due to it. Part is down to them, but a big part has to be down to tactics.
It's all well and good to say Pogba should dominate games more and score more goals - because, you know, he probably should. But you have to contextualise this with the fact that we are a squad who scored 11 goals in our last 8 league games.
Paul Pogba isn't the only star in our team underwhelming - attacks consisting of players like Pogba, Alexis Sanchez, Lukaku, and one of Martial/Rashford/Mata fail to amount to much in most of our games. There's quite clearly a deeper lying issue than simply individual quality.
Still a bit short sample size and also need to see who they games were against and what was the tactial set up. some formations may have been used more frequently in defensive lock up shop games due to Jose tactical instruction e.g. Spurs away. I need a bigger sample size to make a fair judgement
Not everyone can be a gourmet Kevin Nolan.
It's true. Numbers shouldn't be everything with a midfielder, but a player of his style, who often gets played in a pretty attacking role and isn't shy of taking a shot should be getting better numbers in terms of goals/assists.
Without checking the stats, I'd say he's shooting far less this year than last.It's true. Numbers shouldn't be everything with a midfielder, but a player of his style, who often gets played in a pretty attacking role and isn't shy of taking a shot should be getting better numbers in terms of goals/assists.
And to get close to these numbers, he needs the freedom to roam. Who came first the egg or the chicken?
I'd settle for a poundshop Paul Scholes: Look up, hit the pass. Not dribble down a cul-de-sac and let the opportunity to release a forward fly by.
This is what I feel as well. Pogba has never been the all action box to box midfielder that people want or expect him to be. At Juventus Pogba’s role was clearly defined. He played as what is known in Italy as a “mezz’ala” — literally, a “half-wing”. His job was not to roam all over the pitch, but instead work in tandem with the full-back to dominate his flank, dropping back when required and marauding forward when the opportunity presents. It is a position that makes the most of his talents. So even at Juve Pogba was never the box to box midfielder. Vidal was. Pogba's job was more to work off the surging forward runs of the LB and attack the channels from deep to pick defences apart with passing or take the ball past his markers with his dribbling. IMO we need to do two things to get Pogba back to his Juve form.Maybe people overestimate him and think he has the talent to do this. People see him more b2b than DLP and an attacking presence. the reality is that the City performance is not the norm, but for some reason in England we think that is his status quo and he can be like Lamps or Gerrard, getting on the end of things and deciding games etc. Its a misjudgement
I think I'm just of the opinion he has more freedom than he shows. You see it after half time when they get a bollocking he attacks further up and from Carrick was saying they've been discussing his runs in training too.