Not a lot to disagree with here...
Lampard on Pogba
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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What midfielder gets 15 goals a season while playing in a midfield two?
Yup, hard not to agree with Lampard there. Fair assessment imo.
His output's been pretty good this season. Weird thing to criticise. Agree with the stuff about his general play, though.
Other than Frank Lampard himself, you mean?
I wouldn’t get too hung up on numbers anyway. Lampard’s point is that Pogba is way more talented than him so should be at least as influential as he was. Which is 100% fair.
Agree and hopefully the penny will drop soon!
Didn't Chelsea play almost exclusively with a 3 man midfield in Lampard's time?
Always liked fat Frank.
I guess speaking out like that excludes him as Jose's assistant though.
I guess speaking out like that excludes him as Jose's assistant though.
They mainly played 433. We’ve played 433 a fair bit this season too. People get far too hung up on formations, if you ask me. It’s not as though we play with touchline-hugging wingers and two strikers in the same way that we did under Fergie. We usually have loads of bodies in midfield, no matter what formation we set up with.
Lampard used to play in a three from memory and as a number ten player.
And look at Lampard for england when they did play in a midfield two, players need a platform to perform and it's up to the managers to provide it.
agree with Fat Frank on this one
Lampard as a coach would work quite well for us i feel. He knows exactly how Jose works and always seems to speak sense in quite a measured fair way.
I agree with him 100%, his best games have been where he doesn't obsess over the complex but keeps it nice and simple. He'll come good i just think he's not quite as mature as he should be as perhaps his free role at Juventus was too kind to him.
I agree with him 100%, his best games have been where he doesn't obsess over the complex but keeps it nice and simple. He'll come good i just think he's not quite as mature as he should be as perhaps his free role at Juventus was too kind to him.
He was a well-rounded central midfielder (no pun intended) Definitely not a number 10.
He was but for Chelsea he played almost like a number ten.
Frank lampard has always come across as an intelligent guy and I fully agree with what hes saying except the bit about Juventus. I feel pogba has regressed since his time there.
I think it's because he's got everything in his locker and is capable of more. A fair criticism. And he's not wrong about his decision making either. For me the main issue seems to be a lack of dynamism, especially when defending.
He's not wrong, just fat.
Pogba's numbers is very good for a center midfielder, for a player who don't take penalties and set pieces. Weird thing to criticise him for.
He does some stupid things in our half, when he pulls it off he gets so much space and takes 3-4 players out of the game but at the same time when he loses the ball he ends up looking like an idiot. You can criticise him for that as it's risky to try in own half but when it comes to numbers, it's good for a player who played most of the time in midfield 2.
He does some stupid things in our half, when he pulls it off he gets so much space and takes 3-4 players out of the game but at the same time when he loses the ball he ends up looking like an idiot. You can criticise him for that as it's risky to try in own half but when it comes to numbers, it's good for a player who played most of the time in midfield 2.
Finding it hard to disagree with anything Lampard says in general, and this is no different. Good assist record notwithstanding, Pogba is not getting the best out of his tremendous technical ability and fitness. His tendency to over indulge in all those pointless flicks and dribbles in meaningless positions is annoying as feck. Cutting those out of his game would go a long way towards him becoming a better player, but will he?
Which top midfielder scores 15-20 goals a season? Iniesta doesn't. Kroos doesn't. Modric doesn't. D Silva doesn't. People need to stop these unrealistic demands from midfielders. Pogba never scored 15 goals in a season at Juventus. Infact Pogba's output is very good and he had a better minutes per goal/assist ratio than KDB this season so I don't understand that at all.
Frank is right.
He is one of the most infuriating players to watch, I sat there slagging him off for 45 minutes against City and how terrible he was and then he produced his best 45 minutes straight after.
How do you manage a player like that?
He is one of the most infuriating players to watch, I sat there slagging him off for 45 minutes against City and how terrible he was and then he produced his best 45 minutes straight after.
How do you manage a player like that?
Largely fair - though I don't agree with the idea that he has to score 15 goals....
As he's in midfield for us, I wouldn't care if he's only scores 2 goals - so long as he's consistently effecting and bossing games as you would expect someone of his stature/caliber to do.
Obviously scoring goals is the best way to effect games... but if we win every game 3-0, and Pogba doesn't score but is brilliant, then who cares.
As he's in midfield for us, I wouldn't care if he's only scores 2 goals - so long as he's consistently effecting and bossing games as you would expect someone of his stature/caliber to do.
Obviously scoring goals is the best way to effect games... but if we win every game 3-0, and Pogba doesn't score but is brilliant, then who cares.
Spot on.
It's not even about the numbers. Pogba's biggest issue is how he oscillates from being authoritative and hugely impactful (when given time and space) to being feeble, sloppy and ineffective (when in bad form or given less room to maneuver). He simply doesn't have that impeccably reliable consistency to turn up and peform like clockwork 9 games out of 10, yet.
Why are you peeps getting so hung up about that 15 goals part? Would you not like to see that? Isn't that what Yaya Toure, Lampard, Steven Gerrard and others of the same ilk brought to the table? It's not unrealistic, it's pro football.
Most midfielders in a midfield 2 do a lot of defending but Pogba doesn’t seem to want to do that. He has to choose one or the other, either he gets forward and gets a lot of goals and assists or he’s box to box and helps the defence as well as the attack. You can’t do neither
Lampard used to take penalties at Chelsea which probably inflated his goal tally.
Pogba needs to score more deflected goals.
Lampard is Right. Pogba has everything to be one of the top players in the world, but he needs to cut out the showboating. If he just played it simple,he could control and win a game.
I think he had an ok season, no problems at all with his offensive output, driving forward with the ball, and think his end product is great, a return of 6 goals and 10 assists. Maybe his tempo could kick up a notch but it's a small gripe over a midfielder providing his figures.
Needs to do more without the ball, a player of his size I feel he should be muscling/bossing the midfield more and bring that defensive side of his game up a notch. De Bruyne puts in a better defensive shift and has no where near Pogba's physical presence.
Needs to do more without the ball, a player of his size I feel he should be muscling/bossing the midfield more and bring that defensive side of his game up a notch. De Bruyne puts in a better defensive shift and has no where near Pogba's physical presence.
Toure, who is probably the closest one to Pogba stylistically (unlike the lazy and slightly racist Vieira comparisons). Same out of the world technical and physical attributes and nonchalant way of playing
He was a YouTube player. I thought Jose would have improved that, which you can see he’s trying but the balance still isn’t right in the middle.
Have to agree. I remember watching him at Juve and thinking what a player and feeling gutted that we'd not given him more of a chance. When we signed him I was excited in a way that I hadn't been since Ronaldo played for us. Sadly, he's rarely looked like the player he was at Juve. I think a big part of the problem is the expectation and general lack of leadership/players capable of influencing the game playing alongside him.
Pretty much agree with what Lampard says.
I would agree with the penny not dropping part. He just doesn't strike me as the type that it'll happen for which begs the question what Jose does. Does he set the team up around him for you guys, mask his deficiencies and exacerbate his strengths.
He's such a talented player but feels like he only switches it on when he wants to and there's nothing you can do to control/influence that switch. Let alone add new things in to his game.
He's such a talented player but feels like he only switches it on when he wants to and there's nothing you can do to control/influence that switch. Let alone add new things in to his game.
If I'm honest I think Pogba might be able to get 15 without too much trouble, he only played 2/3 of this season and got 6. Suppose he then played all season, then that turns into 9. Suppose we play a midfield 3 all season. Then I can see him getting 15. 6 goals 10 assists in 25 games in not bad at all. I he played all 38 say keeping up that rate, he'd have have finished on 9 goals and 15 assists, thats great for a central midfielder. For context De Bruyne got 8 goals 16 assists in 36 appearances, and in a more attacking team. So yeah. I don't think Pogba needs to improve going forward too much at all, its defensively, he needs to shown more graft and tenacity at times, show a bit more effort in running back to defend than he sometimes does.
No way has Pogba regressed. Someone like Jose telling him to get more serious will be for the better for him.
Couldn't put it better myself, he needs to consistently put in more of a shift defensively and impose himself on games more. Boss them, so to speak.
Unfortunately Frank is spot on. He would be a good coach for Pogba.
Is it possible that Pogba just doesn't understand he needs to pull his socks up and get stuck into games and do the simple things right (ie the penny dropping) How can a 24/25 year old not understand that yet? Surely Mourinho has told him what he needs to do.