Interesting how most people are agreeing with Lampard on this thread but then a lot of people on here also hate it when former United players give their negative opinions on the team and manager.
Lampard on Pogba
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
If Neville had said the same thing, he'd be getting pelters.
It's absolutely baffling to call Pogba a luxury player regarding his goals and assists
1 goal and 2 assists against Arsenal
2 goals against City
1 assist against Spurs
The reason why he doesn't score or assist more against smaller teams is because he plays deeper and is responsible for building the play. But this has more to do with his profile rather than his quality. He doesn't have the correct mindset to control a midfield like Scholes or Carrick. I hoped that he could become this player, but it is either too soon to ask that or he will never be able to do it.
Berbatov scored a hat-trick against Liverpool and finished top scorer in one of our seasons - was still bit of a luxury player all in all.
Lampard's an intelligent guy, which is why you don't just have to look at what he said, but also, why he said it.
He's saying to Pogba "Listen to Jose, and he'll make you incredible". He's helping Jose out.
He's saying to Pogba "Listen to Jose, and he'll make you incredible". He's helping Jose out.
We are talking about end product though?
Pogba as a player in general is different. He tends to deliver in big games but struggles to impose himself against the smaller teams. Not really a luxury player, but having the wrong mentality because he has the ability to perform against smaller teams.
very unfair assessment from frank lampard there and I also believe that assessment was made by him just to derail his morale before the game. Now here is why I think so. Firstly we play in a system that has two midfielders. It is very difficult to get 15 goals for a player who plays in a deeper role of midfield. Yaya toure who is considered legend has only achieved that feat once when got 20 goals in 35 odd games. Lampard who is no doubt an epl legend has scored 15 or more in 3 occasions. Pogba is only in his 2nd season under a manager who is blamed for being to cautious and defensive. Also if anyone is to blame, it has to be Jose as he is the one that plans the game plan. Pogba has done good in juve even though there is only one season in serie a where is goals to games ratio is better than this year. Pogba played in a three men midfield consisting of midfielders like pirlo, marchisio, vidal etc. wherein here at united he is playing with matic. He should be playing in a three men midfield and the wide attacker in front of him should not drop deep to interfere with pogba's position much like sanchez does. without looking into those aspects, it is very wrong of lampard to say something like that,
When did lampard ever play in a midfield two? Outside of dreadful England games?
He also played as the most advanced in a midfield three
He does need to simplify his game. More passing, less dribbling around the half way line.
That said, our movement isn't always the best so he can't really play passes to players who aren't open.
I've always preferred Pogba slightly deeper where he has more passing options.
He needs to work on his off the ball running and timing of the run into the box to play well on the left of a 3 in the Premier League, I think. He could learn a lot from Lampard in that regard.
That said, our movement isn't always the best so he can't really play passes to players who aren't open.
I've always preferred Pogba slightly deeper where he has more passing options.
He needs to work on his off the ball running and timing of the run into the box to play well on the left of a 3 in the Premier League, I think. He could learn a lot from Lampard in that regard.
Doesn't seem too hard to be a reasonable pundit. Unless you were a former United glory.
Pogba is judged differently because he isn't English, he plays for Man Utd and he's black. If we're laying it on the table. By pundits at least.
Lampard is only saying it because he's jealous of Pogba's wages
To be honest, I don't really see Lampard as that type of person. He is a slow talker and takes breaks to think about what he is going to say which is a sign of an intelligent person.
Yes, a lot of the criticism is unfair. That said, there is a lot of truth in the broad criticism that he can do a lot more given his talent.
Maybe, I've never had a problem with Pogba. Of course he's had off games and he's come in for deserved criticism when he has. Overall though he's probably our most consistent and productive outfield player over the last two years. And he's younger than Jesse Lingard who, with the greatest of respect in the world to him, is said to have a good game if he just shows up so much do people consider him still a young prospect in many ways.
Gerrard was the same (maybe not as inconsistent) but Pogba will develop. Was no coincidence that he played his best football alongside Mascherano and Alonso. Hopefully when we add a third midfielder this will take some pressure of Paul having to be our only creative output. I’d love Draxler alongside Pogba and Matic. With a front three of Sanchez Lukaku and Bale/Mahrez (would love either). Add two full backs and we are majorly upgraded imo.
It's cause Lampard said that he also thinks Pogba is naturally more talented.
Pogba has been one of the top central midfielders in England this past year. If Lampard suggests Pogba needs to increase his goals output to make himself a better player than him, that's wrong.
In a time where analytics continue to be relevant, you have to digger deeper than goals. Pogba has been better than last year and now needs to kick on to another level of consistent 7 and 8 performances. But he also needs to be put into a consistent side with his role and midfield partners clearly defined.
In a time where analytics continue to be relevant, you have to digger deeper than goals. Pogba has been better than last year and now needs to kick on to another level of consistent 7 and 8 performances. But he also needs to be put into a consistent side with his role and midfield partners clearly defined.
Perfectly put.
Paul should open his ears and adjust+adapt if he wants to fulfil his full potential and not just be some flash in the pan every now and then.
Frank hit the nail on its head here.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Paul should open his ears and adjust+adapt if he wants to fulfil his full potential and not just be some flash in the pan every now and then.
Frank hit the nail on its head here.
Sorry, but if we had 10 players in the midfield Pogba wouldn't fare any better. He's not the real deal.
Pretty sure that's a just a joking reference to when Jose said that about Scholes earlier in the season.
To be honest, I don't really see Lampard as that type of person. He is a slow talker and takes breaks to think about what he is going to say which is a sign of an intelligent person.
What makes Pogba not the real deal? He's not Iniesta, he's not Xavi nor is he Modric. Pogba is a top central midfield no matter the league. Does he need to mature and really solidify his identity as a footballer, 100%.
What does Frank mean by "flick and roll of the studs"? Anyone got an example clip / gif?
He's judged harshly because he cost a fortune and everyone can see he's potentially one of the best players in the world has not consistently performed like one of the best in the world.
It's just a way of saying Pogba wanting to beat a player 2 or 3 times before he tries something productive with the ball.
Basically most of what you see in this video. Though if we are honest, it's often the correct move.
Don't you lot play with a midfield 3? Matic, Pogba and Herrera?
Because it's highlight...
Back to the topic, Lampard is right saying Pogba having more in his locker than him; and Pogba is not doing as much as the promise he has. However, Lapard again going into the tunnel vision of setting goal numbers for midfielders. Not everyone would need to scoring many goals to be considered a great (attacking) midfielder. Pogba can do much more surely but his stats is about right with all the problem he experienced this season.
Not always and definitely not the initial plan
For the majority of the season, we played midfield 2 and Pogba with Matic. In about last 2 months, Pogba regularly plays with two other midfielders (mostly Matic and Herrera, but Jose used McTominay and Fellaini also)
If Lingard (or even Rashford) are deemed to have had good games when they do feck all then I doubt Pogba is being judged differently because he is black.
Everyone sees his talent and knows that he should be doing much better, that is the main reason he is treated differently
Pogba's best position for me.
I'm not sure whether it's by design or instructions or what but usually by the time we get in and around the box (which Pogba is often involved prior to) Paul is hanging well back with his hands on his hips. I say this as someone who has often owned him in FPL and shouting at him to get into the box!
In contrast, Frank was the master of the "late run into the box" - it was his trademark and best asset
Midfield 2 stuff is nonsense since Pogba's best form for us came in a midfield two with Mkhitaryan as the playmaker.
The reality is that Pogba can't play as a number 6 and so can only flourish when there is an extra person doing a lot of work in midfield. Mkhitaryan had extremely good work rate when he played for us in that period, but then a big game came along and he shrunk like a flower and stopped working. Mkhitaryan was a number 8/10 hybrid which made it almost like one6 (Matic) and two 8s (Pogba and Mkhitaryan).
The reality is that Pogba can't play as a number 6 and so can only flourish when there is an extra person doing a lot of work in midfield. Mkhitaryan had extremely good work rate when he played for us in that period, but then a big game came along and he shrunk like a flower and stopped working. Mkhitaryan was a number 8/10 hybrid which made it almost like one6 (Matic) and two 8s (Pogba and Mkhitaryan).
I don't have a problem with the way He potray himself on social medias or whatever hair cut He has.
But I wonder if his child-like attitude affects the way He sees football.. so far I haven't seen a determination in him that I saw in Ronaldo. This guy has all the attributes to be a perfect midfield monster. It'll be a shame if He doesn't reach his maximum potential.
But I wonder if his child-like attitude affects the way He sees football.. so far I haven't seen a determination in him that I saw in Ronaldo. This guy has all the attributes to be a perfect midfield monster. It'll be a shame if He doesn't reach his maximum potential.
Fully agree with him. The main point is on his overall game, but the numbers part is valid too. 15 goals in 2 seasons, for a player that takes as many shots as he does and gets in a lot of chances himself, isnt good enough. He was on 3 goals until that City game too, and those 3 goals were scored in the first 3 games of the season. Scoring 6 goals in 2-3 months of the season and then nothing for the other 6-7 months in between is a bit shit.
Consistency within his overall game, even with 90 minutes let alone game to game, is what Pogba needs. Loads of talent but mentally still plays like an 18 year old.
Consistency within his overall game, even with 90 minutes let alone game to game, is what Pogba needs. Loads of talent but mentally still plays like an 18 year old.
I think that discrepancy you highlight regarding CMs is less to do with these contemporary players' mindsets (while still a substantial factor) and more to do with the perception of risk-taking as immature whereas solidity and restraint (and the consistency derived from them) are generally seen as signs of experience and maturity; coupled with the shift from 80s/90s reactionary mentality towards defending to 00/10s proactive 'attack is the first line of defense' type thinking that muddies the waters because these players with their skillsets would've likely not been CMs back then but something closer to 10s I feel.
If you look back at, say, Pirlo in the mid-00s - he would definitely look the 'least mature' compared with team mates like Seedorf and Ambrosini. Same goes for Riquelme in his Villarreal peak compared with Marcos Senna. Of course there's also counter-examples like Zidane or Iniesta but these were so supremely talented that they rarely if ever invited such observations (although certainly there's Zidane's disciplinary record to consider).
In short, I think it's often mainly (not wholly) a perception that's inherently tied to creativity. Whether or not it's justified is another question entirely.
I agree with the jist of what Lampard's saying, in that Pogba's expressing of his skillset is perhaps ill-suited to what Mourinho actually wants from him.
Last edited:
Can't really disagree with Lampard. And it's funny how people always ignore key parts of articles, like where Lampard admits Pogba has much more to his game than he did, both in ability and physicality!
What's more worrying is how people on the thread seem to have forgotten Lampard played in a peak level Chelsea, as the forward of the three centre midfielders with worldclass players like Essien and Makelele doing his ugly stuff, with star wingers and Drogba ahead of him. At least they do recognise the penalties he scored too.
What's more worrying is how people on the thread seem to have forgotten Lampard played in a peak level Chelsea, as the forward of the three centre midfielders with worldclass players like Essien and Makelele doing his ugly stuff, with star wingers and Drogba ahead of him. At least they do recognise the penalties he scored too.
This part was all on the head. Its what Paul should be listening to. The 15 goal stuff isn't necessary but Lampard's observations are nothing we as United fans haven't expressed on multiple occasions. you play him because he has a goal or assist in him but then he can drop his performance at the drop of a hat and as Lamps says, too frequently make bad decision as a midfield player which you just can't do at this level. trying to dribble past players in your half, showboat, indulge the social media highlight reel, then end up on your ass watching a counterattack develop must make Jose anxious. He just needs to be sensible with his talent. Cristiano stopped showboating so he could become more direct and be a more effective player. Its mainly maturity. My worry is that we will be having these same conversations in 2 years time