Don't know about that but we restructured our academy way after Moyes left. Nicky Butt wasn't academy chief at that point.
Kieran McKenna as our next assistant manager| Simon Stone confirms the promotion
- Thread starter KM
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So why would Jose invite McKenna to his staff, if he wasn’t going to utilise McKenna?
That's just polite way from Moyes to tell Rene to feck off. Can you imagine a first team coach who had been dealing with world class players in the first team for years suddenly being asked to manage bunch of kids at academy?
Think SAF brought Rene in originally to be a skills-coach for the clubs 7-9 year olds, and he worked his way up through the age groups to become SAF's assistant, and when David Moyes came in, knowing the Academy needed restructuring he offered Rene a job hoping his experience at the different age groups would help, but if memory serves Rene said after turning it down he was insulted.
I'm not surprised really, with what Rene has told the press in the following years it was obvious that if it hadn't been for him we wouldn't have been successful, oh yeah and SAF helped
Is this confirmed ?
Says common sense and history. Moyes, van Gaal, Mourinho, or the next manager don't pick the academy staff. It's the whole point of the academy directors like Nicky Butt. McKenna has been highly sought after and we made sure we got him from Spurs, we aren't going to boot him out the door if Mourinho has some breakdown. He was a key piece to the whole academy revamp recently and is rated highly by the club.
No Moyes offered him a role in the first team which Rene rejected.
People talk about whether McKenn can work with Jose or not, the real question should be whether the players going to take his method or not. There's huge gap between managing bunch of kids in academy to season pros in the first team. Can you imagine him coaching the tactically inept Pogba when to run, when to pass, or when to shoot? Or asking these lazy ass players to move faster up and down the pitch?
will they take this rookie's words? if things still didnt go well next season, who do you think will get the blame? Sorry for being pesimistic here.
will they take this rookie's words? if things still didnt go well next season, who do you think will get the blame? Sorry for being pesimistic here.
Since Pogba is acting like a kid, it might not be a bad thing. I really hope McKenna can have an attacking influence on our play. If not, it's definitely bye bye Jose next Summer.
All he needs pass forward, less touches!! Should do the trick.
He has been told he can stay as head of the club’s youth development.
But it is understood he is likely to tell David Moyes he wants to remain a first-team coach.
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...ne-Meulensteen-set-to-leave-Manchester-United
Don't know, Pep got the Barcelona gig based on the work he did within the club. I'd certainly rather we looked within next time rather than appoint a name that doesn't understand the clubs culture, at least if we appoint a United fan as the manager we can expect him to try and play something resembling what we all want.
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Age is overrated in my opinion. He retired early from football due to an injury so he's been working as a coach as long as other pro's would have been if they'd have retired in their 30's, so he's got the same experience as most, he's also just younger than most.
That would be the ideal, it would be interesting to see who he'd bring in as the Bad Cop as his assistant.
You guys didnt really answer my question though. It's really hard to change the mentality of our players, i doubt an ex U-18 coach suddenly going to change that.
Pep was Barca's legend, a La Masia Youth product, team's captain in 00's and the Barca team he took over already had good core who'd worked in already perfect system (Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Messi, Eto'o, Valdes), all he needed to do was little bit tweaks here & there (mainly team spirits). Same can't be said about McKenna and our team.
I dont want to ruin the mood here & i know CAF have weird fetish with youngish players/managers (the younger the better is the mantra here) but can you logically explain, how an ex U-18 manager would suddenly be respected by season pro first teamers?
Whilst some of what you say is true - Barcelona were a totally different kettle of fish under Rijkaard who build a 'roster' of 11 very good individualistic players that did the job. Guardiola didn't have a particularly hard job but he took the hard route by removing the individuality; the individualistic superstars who did the job from that squad and literally turned it in to a team game. Doing so gave Xavi, iniesta, puyol, pique, messi an extra yard. That's not easy to rip up something good and try something new.
Whilst Barcelona are not as good as they were back then under Pep - there football these days still shows traces of Pep's style lingering in and out of Barcelona's gameplay long after he has gone and to the team's benefit. Half the managers they have hired are not that special & still they won a shed load of titles simply because of an increase in football identity within that club that has stuck by through characteristics of their play that wasn't their under rijkaard.
That's why I want an ingrown manager or at least someone who know the club to a certain degree and has a core idea of its identity so they can aim to add to it - be it Mckenna, Butt (might suprise some), Giggs or possibly Carrick. It's the best option. There are things like a partnership between Rashford & Martial that hasnt even been tried under our manager - thats just ridiculous & wont happen under one of our own. There's players around the edges of the first team that can form a team and play in a unique style to us. Even in the first team; there are players now who are under utilised, are played in the wrong position because we keep chopping and changing managers.
We as fans will give a manager of our own time to find their feet & find their team; something we never do by looking outside. United needs someone who will be dedicated for the longer term like SAF was.
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Age will not be a factor if he is good enough so the concerns about being able to gain respect from the players are undue. Just look at Brad Stevens of the Boston Celtics.
I think United still looking for the director of football first rather giving a Mckenna permanent job as head coach of the senior team, we have been finding one for years but haven't found one yet, even though Monchi were offered to join us but subbed us for Roma.
On other hands, Barcelona was impressed with Guardiola because of his work with youth sides, not because he wins a lot of games but the style of play has impressed Barcelona board most, that's one of the reasons they promoted him to senior coach and it is a huge step. If Mckenna changed a style of play in our attacking display and do most of our training session while Jose observing and win more games whilst playing amazing football, if it led to Mckenna's work, he could be one we would be looking to hire as head of coaches if Jose left. Mckenna know youth academy so well, he wants to give them getting more first-team experience, in a similar way as Pep Guardiola did the same thing and prompted many players from Barcelona youth academy because he has worked with them before.
Mckenna played one of the most amazing football in the U18. Mckenna fit United's identity so well as he easily could be tied down to long-term, more like 15 years or so, he's still young and United fans, what can we ask more? I think our board and Mourinho see something else in him, they want to promote him to senior from youth academy because of his work with academy and style of play, hopefully, he could become our Pep/Zidane version coach in the future.
On other hands, Barcelona was impressed with Guardiola because of his work with youth sides, not because he wins a lot of games but the style of play has impressed Barcelona board most, that's one of the reasons they promoted him to senior coach and it is a huge step. If Mckenna changed a style of play in our attacking display and do most of our training session while Jose observing and win more games whilst playing amazing football, if it led to Mckenna's work, he could be one we would be looking to hire as head of coaches if Jose left. Mckenna know youth academy so well, he wants to give them getting more first-team experience, in a similar way as Pep Guardiola did the same thing and prompted many players from Barcelona youth academy because he has worked with them before.
Mckenna played one of the most amazing football in the U18. Mckenna fit United's identity so well as he easily could be tied down to long-term, more like 15 years or so, he's still young and United fans, what can we ask more? I think our board and Mourinho see something else in him, they want to promote him to senior from youth academy because of his work with academy and style of play, hopefully, he could become our Pep/Zidane version coach in the future.
Have to agree with @Aloysius's Back 3. Someone from within might be worth a look. Jose is wise here to take McKenna and Carrick from within when his popularity is divided among fans. 3 years at any club is new to Jose and if he is to survive here, he needs to stick to the club traditions.
Carlos Queroz was a good example of how influencial an assistant can be even to the most experienced of managers. If McKenna is able to have similar influence on the side from an attacking standpoint it would be fantastic.
Normally I would like this, but I doubt Mckenna is going to have much influence given that Mou said, "There are many good coaches but I like to make my assistants. I don't like coaches who are already trained, I like to shape them to my way of thinking and they grow with me and I also grow with them."
If that's the case then we lost a good u18 coach for a yes man or someone who won't change Mou.
If that's the case then we lost a good u18 coach for a yes man or someone who won't change Mou.
Of course Jose isn't going to say "I'll submit to the idea of my coaches as I'm incapable “
I think the mentality of our players will improve if we play more offensively. Maybe with Sidibe, Alderweireld and Sandro, Mourinho will have more confidence going forward, or at least it could be his excuse for changing system.
It's not merely about respect and pedigree stemming from your career whilst being managed. Pep obviously impressed everyone and garnered respect due to his managerial and coaching abilities. I know little about McKenna, but if he has the latter then that's enough to have a shot. It's not like Mourinho himself had any reputation prior to his managerial successes other than being associated with other great managers.
What are you implying here? It's obvious he was telling the truth because guess what? He wholeheartedly believes in his way of tactics. Unlike Fergie who was more flexibile, Mou is going to stick to his guns just like LVG stuck to his guns. A lot of managers are like that.
I see this as more of a favor to Mckenna. Because this could allow him to kickstart his managerial career after a few years under Mou. From a United standpoint I'm less ecstatic.
Maybe Jose IS looking for fresh ideas for the way we play. He will be having Carrick and McKenna in his coaching setup next season by the looks of it. That is 1 former United player, who played the United way and the other is a life long United fan, who made his players play the United way. Jose has been getting stick mostly for our performance going forward. So may be, just may be Jose has realized that his tactics attacking wise are subpar at this time and that he needs fresh ideas to improve it
The Caf is on great form today
A simple rumour of promotion to Mourinho's assistant and some are proclaiming the next Fergie.
Fantastic work
Joking apart though, if he has our u-18's playing good, attacking football then I'm all for it. It could be a good blend of management.
A simple rumour of promotion to Mourinho's assistant and some are proclaiming the next Fergie.
Fantastic work
Joking apart though, if he has our u-18's playing good, attacking football then I'm all for it. It could be a good blend of management.
Obviously Jose who'd won absolutely everything in football has to believe in himself. If he didn't, then he'd have a failed career. I think Jose is the more flexible manager than Pep.
As several people suggested Jose could've chosen any one of the trusted people around but he chose to promote McKenna. Would there be a complete changeover In style? No. Can there be tweaks Yes .
In times of distress, common people look for hope, a Messiah.The Caf is on great form today
A simple rumour of promotion to Mourinho's assistant and some are proclaiming the next Fergie.
Fantastic work
Joking apart though, if he has our u-18's playing good, attacking football then I'm all for it. It could be a good blend of management.
Someone brought up Carlos Queiroz, which is the best example we have. With his appointment, all of a sudden we were making a dent in the Champions League consistently. Hopefully, McKenna has a similar impact.
Respect is earned and mutual. Doesn't matter how old you are as long as you conduct yourself in a certain way and know your stuff. At the end of the day, everyone in that dressing room wants to win trophies and if everyone's pulling in the same direction then there shouldn't be any issues. I'm sure having an inexperienced manager would throw up some interesting disciplinary issues with certain players but that would give the manager a perfect opportunity to stamp their authority over the team.
I'm obviously not saying give McKenna the job tomorrow, I'm saying that when Mourinho eventually goes, we could do a lot worse than giving the job to someone who's been a lifelong United fan, has displayed great potential as a coach and had top clubs trying to sign him. I think the club should watch his progress with the first team over the season and see how he does, if Mourinho gets the sack, put him in and surround him with United coaches who have a lot of experience to guide him in his decision making.
How did Mourinho start out? He was a translator for Bobby Robson then. Everyone has to start somewhere and obviously some have a higher start than others. Already on here some have got him as the next messiah to being coached to manage elsewhere. Lets see what he brings to the table first, as its a big step up from U18's to sitting on the bench with the manager. Can he improve our style of play to match City? Lets all hope for that at the moment and see what happens.
The younger the better, you gotta remember that!The Caf is on great form today
A simple rumour of promotion to Mourinho's assistant and some are proclaiming the next Fergie.
Fantastic work
Joking apart though, if he has our u-18's playing good, attacking football then I'm all for it. It could be a good blend of management.
Those people probably didnt support United yet in 2004-06 as i remember lots of booed against Queiroz and many accused him of ruinning "the united way" by playing more defensive football.
Jose clearly started his managerial career at some minor clubs in Portugal after he's finished working with SBR & LvG.
That's the problem with CAF these days isnt it? we think some players are crap bcause we watched them long enough to judge, on contrary some players suddenly bcome world class just bcause we barely/havent watched them at all.
Anyway good luck McKenna, this place wont take longer than 1 month to complain if things didnt go well.
The lad won’t make a blind bit of difference because he won’t be allowed to. I’d rather he stay with the under 18’s where he gets to express himself.
Since you're so sure, I am curious how you got your info about how our first team backroom staff work?
Who says he wasnt?
Jesus Christ. It’s called having opinion!
Mckenna has worked wonders with our youth team. He’s a top coach.
The trouble is I don’t think that he will be given any licence to influence this José team.
Jose is far too arrogant to admit his approach needs to be replaced with a 32 year olds.
So having an opinion on something makes me ITK does it?
You made a point he won't get chance to express himself, like you knew something?
He won't have been promoted to such a role if he wasn't going to be allowed to do his job and have a say. Jose knows a very good coach when he sees one and he's not afraid to give them roles with his backroom staff, if he sees fit.
I do agree McKenna has done a fantastic job with the u18s, who's to say he won't have an equally positive effect on the first team? We won't know until we try and I'm sure Jose wouldn't make such a move if he didn't have full confidence in McKenna, as not only is it effecting the first team but also the u18s.
Jose doesn't need to replace his approach, he needs ideas on how to make it better and I am sure McKenna is capable of that. We are not hiring him to place the cones, he will have some input. Of course final decisions will always be manager's but it doesn't mean they don't listen to their assistants.