Argentina cancel friendly in Jerusalem

[The Don]

Absolutely brilliant news, whatever the reasons for doing so. Hope more high profile sports teams, celebs, organisations take a shit on israel. The more the merrier.

 

[#07]

A lot of the Islamic terrorist funding originates in Qatar. That was what my point was.

Also just because Muslim countries suffer from Islamic terrorism, does that somehow discount that other countries don't? Also I said nothing about Muslims or non Muslims here. Islamic terrorism is a global problem, but the countries which least deserve it have all the rights to call a spade, a spade.

Understood.

 

[DOTA]

Messi's incredibly popular amongst Palestinians, isn't he?

 

[shamans]

Good on them. The world has some crazy double standards. We are ready to bash North Korea and Iran but look the other way when it is Israel. Being allies with the big daddy helps

 

[shamans]

Politics and football should be separated. Just saw a picture with a woman holding an Argentina shirt with blood all over it. Doesnt make any sense to me

It should be. No one should boycott playing with the Israel team but them hosting a match in Jerusalem is 100 percent political

 

[RedDevil@84]

Being allies with the big daddy helps

That is obvious. Media/politics play a large part in biased views

 

[2cents]

It should be. No one should boycott playing with the Israel team but them hosting a match in Jerusalem is 100 percent political

It's not even that, they've played plenty of matches in Jerusalem before (including against Argentina) and playing there needn't have any political connotations since the stadium is located firmly in West Jerusalem. What's different here is the current context with the recent US embassy move and the Israeli relocation of the match for obvious propaganda purposes.

 

[Raoul]

Agree with the decision to cancel it. No need to use the Argies and the likes of Messi as a propaganda tool on the Jerusalem issue.

 

[Moriarty]

Politics and sport is a toxic brew.

 

[NikSab]

I really hope Israel doesn't deter in its ways of dealing with the stone pelters. India could learn a thing from the Israelis.

Edit : I can see so many posters defending this. It's hilarious.

Also, players safety? It's Israel we are talking about. One of the safest countries in the world. The match was cancelled because Argentina doesn't want to get involved in a fight with the Arab countries. It's just a political decision and it's disgusting people are defending it.

 

[Ishdalar]

It's not even that, they've played plenty of matches in Jerusalem before (including against Argentina) and playing there needn't have any political connotations since the stadium is located firmly in West Jerusalem. What's different here is the current context with the recent US embassy move and the Israeli relocation of the match for obvious propaganda purposes.

Totally, another example was the "see you in Jerusalem" the singer that won Eurovision said at the end of her performance.

They're pushing for Jerusalem at full steam and will use every tool they can to do so, this friendly was just another one of those tools, personally I'm happy that Argentina won't help Israel's propaganda war to solidify their claims over Jerusalem.

 

[wub1234]

Agree with this.

In four years time a World Cup will be played in stadiums built by slaves according to many reports.

Whatever you think about the Israeli government’s policies, if you boycott playing Israel then how can you justify playing in arenas built by slaves? 4,000 of whom have allegedly died building grounds for Qatar 2022.

Once you start bringing outside stuff into football it shines a light on the whole lot of us, and we don’t look good under the spotlight.

I tend to agree with your view, but it's honestly difficult to know what is right or wrong.

If you take the issue of apartheid in South Africa, it could be argued that boycotting sport in that country and banning athletes from major competitions played a significant role in the changes in the nation, which have undoubtedly been positive, even if South Africa still has massive social problems.

Conversely, I'm not sure I agree with sporting boycotts for the reasons that you succinctly pointed out. For example, if someone from United was to say "I'm not willing to play in the US because I don't agree with their foreign policy over several decades," this would be hugely contentious, and would have a profound impact on that person's life. Undoubtedly, he would be absolutely savaged in the American media in particular.

But if you were to pose the question of which government has done more damage, the US or South African, I'd have a very hard time arguing that it was South Africa. And the US can't even come down too hard on the "apartheid was abhorrent" angle (which it was) because they effectively had apartheid in numerous states for hundreds of years, and there are still massive racial divisions to this day. Plus, the country was founded on a slaughter of the native people!

Having said that, considering the brutal slaughter that Israel has been involved in, it would sadden me to see someone I hugely admire like Messi involved in a 'friendly' with Israel at this time. Or any time, really. I do think this is the right decision, but you are absolutely correct that such decisions are fraught with contradictions and hypocrisy.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

I really hope Israel doesn't deter in its ways of dealing with the stone pelters. India could learn a thing from the Israelis.

Edit : I can see so many posters defending this. It's hilarious.

Also, players safety? It's Israel we are talking about. One of the safest countries in the world. The match was cancelled because Argentina doesn't want to get involved in a fight with the Arab countries. It's just a political decision and it's disgusting people are defending it.

I have genuinely never been as shocked by the Caf's reaction to an issue as by some of the posts in this thread. I totally agree that it is disgusting.

 

[KM]

I really hope Israel doesn't deter in its ways of dealing with the stone pelters. India could learn a thing from the Israelis.

Edit : I can see so many posters defending this. It's hilarious.

Also, players safety? It's Israel we are talking about. One of the safest countries in the world. The match was cancelled because Argentina doesn't want to get involved in a fight with the Arab countries. It's just a political decision and it's disgusting people are defending it.

Argentina's reason for cancelling the match notwithstanding, it seems that the match was moved to Jerusalem for political reasons. Isreal was absolutely wrong in doing this. They should've let the match go on at Haifa and I think no-one would've said anything.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

If you take the issue of apartheid in South Africa, it could be argued that boycotting sport in that country and banning athletes from major competitions played a significant role in the changes in the nation, which have undoubtedly been positive, even if South Africa still has massive social problems.

I was going to say this.

Countries not partaking in sport in SA played a role in the ending of Apartheid... so the idea that sports shouldn't mix with politics and doesn't have any effect is mute

Agree with this.

In four years time a World Cup will be played in stadiums built by slaves according to many reports.

Whatever you think about the Israeli government’s policies, if you boycott playing Israel then how can you justify playing in arenas built by slaves? 4,000 of whom have allegedly died building grounds for Qatar 2022.

Once you start bringing outside stuff into football it shines a light on the whole lot of us, and we don’t look good under the spotlight.

You can't justify it, and there absolutely should be no World Cup in Qatar.

However its a lot easier for Argentina to cancel a friendly then not compete in the World Cup. It may be hypocritical... but people/countries are always hypocritcal in matters like this. Doesn't mean they're wrong to not play in Jerusalem though.

 

[Ishdalar]

I really hope Israel doesn't deter in its ways of dealing with the stone pelters. India could learn a thing from the Israelis.

Edit : I can see so many posters defending this. It's hilarious.

Also, players safety? It's Israel we are talking about. One of the safest countries in the world. The match was cancelled because Argentina doesn't want to get involved in a fight with the Arab countries. It's just a political decision and it's disgusting people are defending it.

No it wasn't, Messi and Mascherano were the ones who pressured the AFA to cancel the match, probably because they felt they were being used as a political tool right before the last frigging World Cup in this squad's era

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

It's not about Argentina, the AFA is so corrupt that they'd send their players to play in the moon if offered enough money, it was something that the players didn't want to be part of, because swapping the game to Jerusalem puts them in the spotlight of a political war that they don't want to take part of.

 

[Levo]

Rumour has it that Messi has refunded all costs for the cancelled game himself.

 

[Scarecrow]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[Jeffthered]

Good.

I'm glad they are not going to play in that 'showpiece'.

 

[Giggs86]

I really hope Israel doesn't deter in its ways of dealing with the stone pelters. India could learn a thing from the Israelis.

Edit : I can see so many posters defending this. It's hilarious.

Also, players safety? It's Israel we are talking about. One of the safest countries in the world. The match was cancelled because Argentina doesn't want to get involved in a fight with the Arab countries. It's just a political decision and it's disgusting people are defending it.

Agreed 100%.

It is a political decision and by canceling a planned match in Israel’s capital, Argentina basically chose a side. Hope they lose another WC final.

 

[Scarecrow]

I really hope Israel doesn't deter in its ways of dealing with the stone pelters. India could learn a thing from the Israelis.

Edit : I can see so many posters defending this. It's hilarious.

Also, players safety? It's Israel we are talking about. One of the safest countries in the world. The match was cancelled because Argentina doesn't want to get involved in a fight with the Arab countries. It's just a political decision and it's disgusting people are defending it.

Even if we assume you're right - how is it a bad decision on their part? Obviously they don't want to get into a fight with anyone, hence the decision to back away from a politically charged situation. It's you who are making it a statement of sorts. You're being irrational.

I wouldn't want to have to deal with any of that if I was a player and they shouldn't have to.

 

[Amir]

Looks like Israel were the first to politicize the game.

Bingo.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Well even your Prime Minister David Cameron said while in office that "as with many of problems that exist worldwide we are are responsible for their creation "

What does that have to do with criticising what Argentina are doing now?

 

[lsd]

What does that have to do with criticising what Argentina are doing now?

Morality doesn't have a time frame ..with the history of atrocities committed by Britain it's a bit rich to develop a moral stance now and criticise something Argentina did in 1994

Which is what I answered in the first place

 

[Ishdalar]

Agreed 100%.

It is a political decision and by canceling a planned match in Israel’s capital, Argentina basically chose a side. Hope they lose another WC final.

No, they didn't.

While the international community regards East Jerusalem, including the entire Old City, as part of the occupied Palestinian territories, neither part, West or East Jerusalem, is recognized as part of the territory of Israel or the State of Palestine. Under the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine adopted by the General Assembly of the United Nations in 1947, Jerusalem was envisaged to become a corpus separatum administered by the United Nations. In the war of 1948, the western part of the city was occupied by forces of the nascent state of Israel, while the eastern part was occupied by Jordan. The international community largely considers the legal status of Jerusalem to derive from the partition plan, and correspondingly refuses to recognize Israeli sovereignty over the city.

The Reunification of Jerusalem refers to the June 1967 administrative merger of West Jerusalem and East Jerusalem by Israel, following the conquest of the Eastern half of the city (including the walled Old City) from Jordanduring the Six Day War. In 1980, the merger of West and East Jerusalem was legalized in Israel by the Jerusalem Law, though this move was rejected by the UN and most of the international community.

If Spain were to emit a law tomorrow saying that Gibraltar becomes the capital, but the international community rejected it, would you still say Gibraltar is the capital of Spain?. You're doing something similar with Jerusalem, which implies that either you're argumenting from an already biased point, or that the propaganda has already worked.

Either way, we all can see it's all political reasons here, Argentina didn't even play the game and we're already into this debate, if they played and protests or even something bigger happened, it would be worse, that's what the Argentine players refused to be a part of.

Again, it wasn't Argentina picking sides, it was their players that forced them to make the decision, basing it on a bunch of reasons, starting by them fearing for their security, but equally important that they didn't want to be puppets in a political issue that has been going on for more than half a decade.

 

[RedDevil@84]

It is ridiculous that Argentina is being criticized for not wanting to get into a political drama. Argentina has its own problems to deal with, rather than get into a new headache. If US/UK feel so deeply about Jerusalem or Ukraine or whatever place they like to get involved in, they can send their NTs to those places to prove a point. Asking Argentina to play the power games that big players play in international politics is downright ridiculous.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Morality doesn't have a time frame ..with the history of atrocities committed by Britain it's a bit rich to develop a moral stance now and criticise something Argentina did in 1994

Which is what I answered in the first place

He can criticise anything he wants. He isn't Britain.

 

[dbs235]

So Argentina's preparation for the World Cup has been a 4-0 win at home to Haiti and then a cancelled friendly.

 

[Laurentiu amt]

Shouldn't Argentina pay some amount of money if they're the ones cancelling it? If that's true, then easy money to Israel.

 

[adexkola]

Well done Argentina. Hope more teams and individuals follow suit.

 

[Adisa]

Was the match always scheduled to be played in Jeruselum or was it moved right at the end?

Was initially scheduled for Tel Aviv until Meri Regev, a known racist changed it. Even spent millions doing so.

 

[adexkola]

I tend to agree with your view, but it's honestly difficult to know what is right or wrong.

If you take the issue of apartheid in South Africa, it could be argued that boycotting sport in that country and banning athletes from major competitions played a significant role in the changes in the nation, which have undoubtedly been positive, even if South Africa still has massive social problems.

Conversely, I'm not sure I agree with sporting boycotts for the reasons that you succinctly pointed out. For example, if someone from United was to say "I'm not willing to play in the US because I don't agree with their foreign policy over several decades," this would be hugely contentious, and would have a profound impact on that person's life. Undoubtedly, he would be absolutely savaged in the American media in particular.

But if you were to pose the question of which government has done more damage, the US or South African, I'd have a very hard time arguing that it was South Africa. And the US can't even come down too hard on the "apartheid was abhorrent" angle (which it was) because they effectively had apartheid in numerous states for hundreds of years, and there are still massive racial divisions to this day. Plus, the country was founded on a slaughter of the native people!

Having said that, considering the brutal slaughter that Israel has been involved in, it would sadden me to see someone I hugely admire like Messi involved in a 'friendly' with Israel at this time. Or any time, really. I do think this is the right decision, but you are absolutely correct that such decisions are fraught with contradictions and hypocrisy.

The solution to all what you typed, is not to say, "we can't tackle it all in a non-hypocritical way, so let's not do anything". There is plenty of room for improvement. This is a good step. Hopefully athletes don't "shut up and play", and use their influence to shine light on abuses and atrocities all over the world. Yes, including the United States.

Forget boycotting a game in the United States. Players have come under criticism for not standing for the national anthem. Ali got jailed and barred from boxing for a while, for boycotting the draft in Vietnam. Smith and Carlos were ostracized for raising a fist. So yeah, it's noted that protesting will have some repercussions on your professional career. Which makes it even more remarkable when an athlete decides to feck the consequences. More power to those who do.

 

[hasanejaz88]

Was initially scheduled for Tel Aviv until Meri Regev, a known racist changed it. Even spent millions doing so.

Yea then it was clearly a political move and good of Argentina to not get involved in it.

 

[ChaddyP]

It’s a football match.

If we’re going to allow political morality to determine what sports should be played where, then the World Cup in Russia should be cancelled with immediate effect.

It should.

Should have never been held there.

 

[Basa1987]

Agreed 100%.

It is a political decision and by canceling a planned match in Israel’s capital, Argentina basically chose a side. Hope they lose another WC final.

How? Basically, the Argie players did not want to pick a side.

Israel moved the game from Haifa to Jerusalem for obviously political reasons.

 

[adexkola]

It’s a football match.

If we’re going to allow political morality to determine what sports should be played where, then the World Cup in Russia should be cancelled with immediate effect.

I think a state that engages in legalized slavery, or systematic oppression of some of it's citizens/residents, should not host events and be ostracized by the global community, yes.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Biggest in the world? What was it?

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...orting-event-is-a-traffic-nightmare-1.6053556

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Biggest in the world? What was it?

It is one of the 3 Grand Tour races, had to look it up had no idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour_(cycling)

 

[Giggs86]

How? Basically, the Argie players did not want to pick a side.

Israel moved the game from Haifa to Jerusalem for obviously political reasons.

I understand your point, Israel had no business rescheduling an already scheduled game and forcing the Argies into an uncomfortable situation.

I missed the point that the game was moved from Haifa, I thought the game was scheduled to be played at Jerusalem and that the Argies bailed out due to Arab pressure.

 

[MDFC Manager]

I really hope Israel doesn't deter in its ways of dealing with the stone pelters. India could learn a thing from the Israelis.

Nah we're good. No need to learn anything from the civilian murderers.