fishfingers15
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This is how Flat earth society started.
Edmundo? You may be onto something!With Brazil 94 and Brazil 2002 having won the World cup, you'd think most of that 98 side would have a WC medal at the end of their career. I wonder who missed out on one.
C'mon the players have no say in that!What a rubbish theory, why would players give a shit that the tournament would be hosted in their country 8 years on when most of them probably wouldn't be part of the team anymore.
Those goals look very iffy to me. The 2nd one nobody near Zidane in the box. He was left with a free header. Not buying it!
Well, first you had the let off of Mijatovic, a big star back then, missing a penalty at 1:1. But the main thing I was referring to was the linesman ignoring Bergkamp stomping on Mihajlovic right in front of him.Really? I dont remember that much honestly. What happened?
Hehe, funny how my bias clouds my memoryWell, first you had the let off of Mijatovic, a big star back then, missing a penalty at 1:1. But the main thing I was referring to was the linesman ignoring Bergkamp stomping on Mihajlovic right in front of him.
Ten minutes or so after that red card that never was, Davids rifled home and you were through.
The team was shell-shocked and would have likely lost to anyone half decent that night. Zidane's two headers were borne out of crap defending, but Brazil had been suspect from cross balls all tournament and were all over the shop defending any decent deliveries in the semi-final against Holland. Aldair was well past it and Kluivert had given him a roasting in the semi.Those goals look very iffy to me. The 2nd one nobody near Zidane in the box. He was left with a free header. Not buying it!
This is how Flat earth society started.
Yeah because if the game (or games) were fixed, it's obvious that they'd let Zidane free with is usually average header skills when you had Desailly or Thuram in the team. And it was planned that the ball would go between Roberto Carlos' legs because Zidane can be this accurate with headers. Luck was on france's side during this world cup (Thuram against Croatia is just ridiculous, it's the only time in his entire carreer i achieved such a performance) the rest is pure speculation and "going with gut feelings" is the worst way to have a proper analysis.Those goals look very iffy to me. The 2nd one nobody near Zidane in the box. He was left with a free header. Not buying it!
Zanetti's goal against EnglandThis was my first ever WC and I think my favourite. So many good moments I still remember clearly.
- Beckham's freekick v Columbia
- Nigeria's shock victory over Spain
- Owens goal v argies, then becks getting sent off for kicking out at simeone
- Berkamps wonderful touch and goal v argies
- Croatia trouncing Germany in the quater final 3-0
- Zidane's red card in the group stages, thuram scoring twice in the sf and of course zizou's 2 goals in the final
Remember that. Never had any respect for Bergkamp after that. Proper cnut.Well, first you had the let off of Mijatovic, a big star back then, missing a penalty at 1:1. But the main thing I was referring to was the linesman ignoring Bergkamp stomping on Mihajlovic right in front of him.
Ten minutes or so after that red card that never was, Davids rifled home and you were through.
Yes yes, I call a WUM. However, you should be able to wum without forging facts. The Guardian article is clear in what it presents as ‘what happened’, which is about the reasons for the seizures and how it affected the team, of course. It also presents for our entertainment a few conspiracy theories dreamt up by communists or lunatics. Going by your name, you could be the formerTheory 2: Brazil’s Players Accepted Bribes to Throw the Match
This theory has the Brazil squad being offered £15 million, according to The Guardian, as well as the right to host a future World Cup in exchange for throwing the match against France. Part of the agreement is also said to have included the guarantee of a favourable draw in 2002.
Ronaldo, uncomfortable with the arrangement, pulled out of the squad but changed his mind after Nike told him he was risking his sponsorship money.
The story about Ronaldo having a fit or sufferering from food poisoning is bollocks imo!
Pretty sure Pochettino was in the ref’s ear making sure that was a red card too.This was my first ever WC and I think my favourite. So many good moments I still remember clearly
- Owens goal v argies, then becks getting sent off for kicking out at simeone
Incredibly I had almost the exact same experience except I was staying in Corfu. I remembering watching the early stages of the world cup at home and then travelling away. As you say Brazil appeared unstoppable with a certain R9 up top. I'm not sure the truth will ever surface about what happened before the game.I was on holiday at the time on Crete and watched the game from an outdoor terrace 35 degrees C. Brazil had looked unstoppable mainly due to a 22 yr old by name Ronaldo Luis Nazario de Lima. France were the hosts and the stage was set for the final all football lovers wanted to see.
Remember my first thoughts after the game without any influence from any other spectator. I couldn’t believe how Brazil could have put in such a bad performance in such an important match. I remember the next morning and the disappointment from the locals. (the Cretians were all behind Brazil). They were gutted, but not only were they expressing there discouragement for the defeat, they were outraged over the manner of defeat. They were convinced the game was fixed!
Such thoughts had entered my mind the night before and now the day after, I was convinced this was the case.
There have been investigations and different theories brought forward since the game, and most of them circulating round the player Ronaldo.
Amongst all the speculation I’m sticking to my own gut feeling and back it up with a certain theory that was published in The Guardian which I won’t go into.
Whatever happened ahead of the match, what followed was a sort of awakening to the intersect of football, money and power.
It was the night football lost its innocence.
I'd argue that Barthez or Lama (i think) was their weak link but due to an amazing back four and supporting midfield he wasn't exposed. If I remember correctly France had a slow start to the competition (mostly due to lack of goals) and one of the CBs scored a vital goal to keep them on track and in the tournament. From memory it was Blanc against paragary but I may well be wrong. What I do remember is Zindane putting on some master class performances during the competition and of course did incredibly well in the final.I wanted to see the two sides go at it at the peak of their powers. This was Ronaldo's chance to ascend, as it were - one of the greatest defensive units of all-time vs. the greatest striker possibly of all-time. It had the makings of an epic, for the ages contest.
Ronaldo was clearly - absolutely clearly - not right and he shouldn't have even played in that game. I've heard numerous theories of what caused him to get sick, and with the history of the World Cup, particularly related to home nations, (England, Argentina in particular prior) it wouldn't be out of trend with previous competitions should something under-handed have actually gone on.
All I conclude is that the whole Brazil team looked shell-shocked, and not because of anything France did; just like, they were in a daze and distracted well before the game had even got going. Most of the stories as to why revolve around them crying and panicking about Ronaldo and his convulsions and then trying to play in the game.
I think there are lots of examples of home nations performing above or at least to expectations. England 66 and 96. South Africa when they hosted and again with Russia in the most recent WC. I'm pretty sure I did read somewhere about how groups or even sides of a draw are created to favour particular teams. Personally I like it when home nations do well as it add something to a tournament so long as the fair competition isn't compromised.Come 2002 and France finished bottom of their group.
The monetary incentive to have the host nation progress as deep as possible in the WC, correlated with how another host team (S. Korea) seem to overperfrom, has kept many conspiracy theorists busy
Yes. Decent enough in the group stages (9 point I think) but didn't play anyone of note. Their back four were pretty immense though so were really tough to beat.France weren’t that great during the tournament from what I recall. Extra time win over Paraguay? Penalties against Italy? They didn’t sweep teams aside until the final.
Despite all this theory involving Ronaldo and Nike's sponsorship, it was claimed some times that Ronaldo really felt funny some hours ago (convulsion) and told everyone he wouldn't play. Naturally, Edmundo would start on the teamsheet (it was even announced in the WC official line-up) but the Dr.Toledo gave Ronaldo "carte blanche" and Ronaldo pressed Zagallo to put him in the line-up. It was pretty clear he was in no condition to play and affected his teammates psychologically - look at when he bumped into Barthez and how his teammates looked like shocked in worry for Ronaldo's safety. He recognized his own mistake some days after that match, admitting he shouldn't have asked Zagallo to play that final.We will probably never know if anything underhand went on to cause Ronaldos seizure but I'm pretty sure had he been fit and the rest of the team weren't shellshocked from it all, they would have beaten that French team comfortably. They were a brilliant side and Ronaldo was on fire at that time.
WC 1958: Brazil 5 x 2 FranceFrance always beat us
You're right... they weren't. They had a pretty solid defense and weak attack in contrast to Brazilian team. Not as talented as some squads like Netherlands, Brazil and Argentina. France 2000, on the other hand, was that great IMO.France weren’t that great during the tournament from what I recall. Extra time win over Paraguay? Penalties against Italy? They didn’t sweep teams aside until the final.
Yeah that's what I remember too.The conspiracy I seem to recall is that Ronaldo wasn't fit mentally and physically to play let alone start that match but that the big sponsors practically forced it, mainly Nike.
Given what had happened to their team mate hours before, I doubt any of them were in the right mindset to play a final properly.Could it be that maybe, just maybe, Brazil had a collective off-day? Shit happens.