This is how Flat earth society started.
That 1998 World Cup Final: France 3 Brazil 0
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
With Brazil 94 and Brazil 2002 having won the World cup, you'd think most of that 98 side would have a WC medal at the end of their career. I wonder who missed out on one.
I'm more intrigued by the secret illness trope.
Edmundo? You may be onto something!
We will probably never know if anything underhand went on to cause Ronaldos seizure but I'm pretty sure had he been fit and the rest of the team weren't shellshocked from it all, they would have beaten that French team comfortably. They were a brilliant side and Ronaldo was on fire at that time.
Come 2002 and France finished bottom of their group.
The monetary incentive to have the host nation progress as deep as possible in the WC, correlated with how another host team (S. Korea) seem to overperfrom, has kept many conspiracy theorists busy
The monetary incentive to have the host nation progress as deep as possible in the WC, correlated with how another host team (S. Korea) seem to overperfrom, has kept many conspiracy theorists busy
This was my first ever WC and I think my favourite. So many good moments I still remember clearly.
- Beckham's freekick v Columbia
- Nigeria's shock victory over Spain
- Owens goal v argies, then becks getting sent off for kicking out at simeone
- Berkamps wonderful touch and goal v argies
- Croatia trouncing Germany in the quater final 3-0
- Zidane's red card in the group stages, thuram scoring twice in the sf and of course zizou's 2 goals in the final
- Beckham's freekick v Columbia
- Nigeria's shock victory over Spain
- Owens goal v argies, then becks getting sent off for kicking out at simeone
- Berkamps wonderful touch and goal v argies
- Croatia trouncing Germany in the quater final 3-0
- Zidane's red card in the group stages, thuram scoring twice in the sf and of course zizou's 2 goals in the final
C'mon the players have no say in that!
Those goals look very iffy to me. The 2nd one nobody near Zidane in the box. He was left with a free header. Not buying it!
The french team was great. They also won the Euros in 2000.
Well, first you had the let off of Mijatovic, a big star back then, missing a penalty at 1:1. But the main thing I was referring to was the linesman ignoring Bergkamp stomping on Mihajlovic right in front of him.
Ten minutes or so after that red card that never was, Davids rifled home and you were through.
Hehe, funny how my bias clouds my memory
Because the only thing I remember is the Davids goal..
The team was shell-shocked and would have likely lost to anyone half decent that night. Zidane's two headers were borne out of crap defending, but Brazil had been suspect from cross balls all tournament and were all over the shop defending any decent deliveries in the semi-final against Holland. Aldair was well past it and Kluivert had given him a roasting in the semi.
Would have been a great game though with a fit Ronaldo and a more normal and buoyant Brazil. France had an incredible back four and a suffocating midfield, but they wouldn't have kept a clean sheet against a fully fit and peak Rivaldo/Ronaldo axis.
The hypothesis about accepting brides is pure rubbish. £15 million would be enough money to make the squad or even multiple players throw the match in 1998? Anyone that believes that theory please PM because I am selling stocks and property for quick cash.
Its acknowledged by multiple people that Ronaldo was not right that day. Was it illness, epilepsy, he was drugged? Who knows. The real conspiracy I remember related to Nike and how Nike got involved with the NT decisions to play a clearly unfit (for whatever reason) Ronaldo and how that disrupted the entire team before the final began.
(oh and Romario should have been selected in the first place)
Its acknowledged by multiple people that Ronaldo was not right that day. Was it illness, epilepsy, he was drugged? Who knows. The real conspiracy I remember related to Nike and how Nike got involved with the NT decisions to play a clearly unfit (for whatever reason) Ronaldo and how that disrupted the entire team before the final began.
(oh and Romario should have been selected in the first place)
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Yeah because if the game (or games) were fixed, it's obvious that they'd let Zidane free with is usually average header skills when you had Desailly or Thuram in the team. And it was planned that the ball would go between Roberto Carlos' legs because Zidane can be this accurate with headers. Luck was on france's side during this world cup (Thuram against Croatia is just ridiculous, it's the only time in his entire carreer i achieved such a performance) the rest is pure speculation and "going with gut feelings" is the worst way to have a proper analysis.
Zanetti's goal against England
Brazil could have had R9, R10, and Neymar at their peak and under the best PEDs possible. They weren’t beating France in their home playing for their first final ever. R9 wouldn’t have made one bit of a difference and despite his issues the night before, he had a couple of good chances but Barthez was on another level and Zidane was the only one playing like a Brazilian that night, much like in 2006 for his last WC.
People will always try to find an explanation or excuse, but nobody cares. France was just better, and proved it two years later at the Euro as well. We are talking about one of the all-time great teams.
People will always try to find an explanation or excuse, but nobody cares. France was just better, and proved it two years later at the Euro as well. We are talking about one of the all-time great teams.
France showed up for the final, Brazil didn't. That Brazilian team was overrated anyway. Their defence was poor and they had Bebeto and Dunga who were as good as retired.
I remember the match being fairly even in the overall play, but France scored twice from corners and Ronaldo missed a couple of good chances and that was the difference. Brazil definitely didn't play anywhere near their potential, and I think they'd have had a great chance if the Ronaldo stuff didn't happen.
I don't remember this as France being way too strong as some have said. They were s good, efficient side and solid at the back but not way better than Brazil, IMO.
I don't remember this as France being way too strong as some have said. They were s good, efficient side and solid at the back but not way better than Brazil, IMO.
France always beat us
Remember that. Never had any respect for Bergkamp after that. Proper cnut.
Yes yes, I call a WUM. However, you should be able to wum without forging facts. The Guardian article is clear in what it presents as ‘what happened’, which is about the reasons for the seizures and how it affected the team, of course. It also presents for our entertainment a few conspiracy theories dreamt up by communists or lunatics. Going by your name, you could be the former
Pretty sure Pochettino was in the ref’s ear making sure that was a red card too.
That Brazil team were definitely beatable. Norway beat them 2-1 in the group stage.
Incredibly I had almost the exact same experience except I was staying in Corfu. I remembering watching the early stages of the world cup at home and then travelling away. As you say Brazil appeared unstoppable with a certain R9 up top. I'm not sure the truth will ever surface about what happened before the game.
I'd argue that Barthez or Lama (i think) was their weak link but due to an amazing back four and supporting midfield he wasn't exposed. If I remember correctly France had a slow start to the competition (mostly due to lack of goals) and one of the CBs scored a vital goal to keep them on track and in the tournament. From memory it was Blanc against paragary but I may well be wrong. What I do remember is Zindane putting on some master class performances during the competition and of course did incredibly well in the final.
I think there are lots of examples of home nations performing above or at least to expectations. England 66 and 96. South Africa when they hosted and again with Russia in the most recent WC. I'm pretty sure I did read somewhere about how groups or even sides of a draw are created to favour particular teams. Personally I like it when home nations do well as it add something to a tournament so long as the fair competition isn't compromised.
Although I might have not been so keen on SA doing any better than they did as far as I'm concerned the vuvuzela can feck off.
France weren’t that great during the tournament from what I recall. Extra time win over Paraguay? Penalties against Italy? They didn’t sweep teams aside until the final.
Yes. Decent enough in the group stages (9 point I think) but didn't play anyone of note. Their back four were pretty immense though so were really tough to beat.
Here’s a cool video of the French defenders discussing Ronaldo before th final.
I do remember that game and it had quite an odd feeling to it. France had a great side but Brazil was more than a match for them, at least on paper. I couldn't believe how a team with Roberto Carlos, Cafu, Dunga, Bebeto and Ronaldo can look so hopeless.
Everybody's tripping over themselves to make excuses for Brazil.
It's the tournament I fell in love with Zidane and French football.
Despite all this theory involving Ronaldo and Nike's sponsorship, it was claimed some times that Ronaldo really felt funny some hours ago (convulsion) and told everyone he wouldn't play. Naturally, Edmundo would start on the teamsheet (it was even announced in the WC official line-up) but the Dr.Toledo gave Ronaldo "carte blanche" and Ronaldo pressed Zagallo to put him in the line-up. It was pretty clear he was in no condition to play and affected his teammates psychologically - look at when he bumped into Barthez and how his teammates looked like shocked in worry for Ronaldo's safety. He recognized his own mistake some days after that match, admitting he shouldn't have asked Zagallo to play that final.
It was a shame because Brazil actually convinced more as a team until that final. I remember Netherlands was regarded as the best team in that competition and Brazil knocked them out deservedly since A Seleção demonstrated much more spirit, stamina and guts in ET - in fact, Brazil could've decided that game before extra-time if Ronaldo hadn't tried to dribble Van Der Sar when the match was 1-0 in Brazil's favour. France did a good job against two dark-horses in the two first matches but struggled a lot against higher tier teams. Even without Ronaldo, Brazil still could've had a fair good chance to win if Edmundo had started as it was originally planned. He was one the few Brazilian players who demonstrated seriousness in that match - there's a classic scene at which he shouted at Rivaldo for having touched the ball off the field - and let's be honest. Although he was not Ronaldo, he was still a great player at that time, a truly beast one year ago.
WC 1958: Brazil 5 x 2 FranceFrance always beat us
No... France doesn't always beat us.
You're right... they weren't. They had a pretty solid defense and weak attack in contrast to Brazilian team. Not as talented as some squads like Netherlands, Brazil and Argentina. France 2000, on the other hand, was that great IMO.
Besides I remember FIFA pre-selected 6 Brazilian players, 6 Dutch players and 5 French players out of 38 to contest for the best players in that WC before the final.
Brazil: Cafú, Roberto Carlos, Junior Baiano, Dunga, Rivaldo, Ronaldo
Netherlands: Van Der Sar, Frank de Boer, Ronald de Boer, Cocu, Overmars, Bergkamp
France: Barthez, Desailly, Thuram, Zidane, Henry
I remember this game being a massive letdown. Was billed as being an epic attack v defense battle but Brazil just didn’t show up. France won it in second gear.
I was devastated hearing Ronaldo wasn’t playing.
I was devastated watching him struggle around clearly in no fit shape to be standing up, let alone playing in a World Cup final.
I’m still devastated that injury, weight and partying cost us the chance to see perhaps the best player ever develop. I want to see the alternate timeline where he was fine for the final and injury free and fully fit for his entire career.
I was devastated watching him struggle around clearly in no fit shape to be standing up, let alone playing in a World Cup final.
I’m still devastated that injury, weight and partying cost us the chance to see perhaps the best player ever develop. I want to see the alternate timeline where he was fine for the final and injury free and fully fit for his entire career.
Yeah that's what I remember too.
Given what had happened to their team mate hours before, I doubt any of them were in the right mindset to play a final properly.
Some of them might not have been able to get the image of him fitting and convulsing out of their heads. Others would’ve been torn not wanting him to play and fighting against those that did.
It was a mess mentally for them.