Who complains about that?
Film Oscars 2019
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
It is a common complaint that is why the Oscars tried to add a best popular film category.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/06/business/media/academy-awards-popular-film.html
Obviously neither of those movies would have been nominated had they not featured unique cultural/social tropes. That's what we were griping about.
The worst ever decision was to overlook Interstellar for best picture back then. It would be criminal if Black Panther, which is no better than Aquaman in terms of story, wins it.
Interstellar was Meh but, then again it was better than Imitation Game, Theory of Everything and American Sniper. Nightcrawler, A Most Violent Year and Inherent Vice were much bigger snubs that year.
I don't understand why everyone still gets so worked up over Oscar nominations. They're largely irrelevant. It's just a bit fun when a movie you really liked gets recognized, but apart from that you shouldn't take it so seriously. If you made a list of your favourite movies, I bet most of them didn't win Oscars.
It's almost as if people get personally offended when a movie they didn't care for gets nominated.
It's almost as if people get personally offended when a movie they didn't care for gets nominated.
To be fair, nobody is rioting in the streets. It’s the same when anybody makes lists. Best albums of the year, best PL managers, whatever. It’s always going to trigger discussion and criticism of the choices made. Black Panther getting an oscar nomination for best picture is a bit like Mourinho getting on somebody’s list of best PL managers of the 2017/18 season. Wacky enough that people should be allowed to express amazement, without getting accused of being “offended”.
Am I the only one who didn't find Black Panther that great? It was just another superhero brainless movie, worse than the last Avengers, though probably better than Ragnarok. Great to see a movie made by Afro-American directors and actors doing that good financially, and it was definitely enjoyable, but not a movie worthy of being considered for Best Picture.
Na I don't think it's like that at all. Black Panther was a massive success. It broke box office records and was critically acclaimed. It had Oscar buzz as soon as it came out and was on pretty much every Oscar prediction list. Far enough if you didn't like it since art is subjective, but there was nothing amazing or wacky about this nomination like your analogy suggests.
Like others have said, the Bohemian Rhapsody nomination is far stranger. I also think this is the one people are complaining about because they haven't even seen most of the other nominees.
I knew the Mourinho analogy wouldn’t work as soon as I typed it! Can’t really think of a football manager equivalent... You get my point, though. It’s a bang average, CGI heavy, blockbuster movie aimed at kids. As a piece of film-making I don’t see how it stands out from any other of the cookie cutter generic all-action blockbusters that get made every year.
The Oscar buzz and rave reviews were clearly fuelled by its cultural significance rather than its inherent quality as a movie (see also Wonder Woman, which was a genuinely terrible movie that was bizarrely well received by the critics). Hence it’s a decision that has prompted a lot of discussion. As I said, I can get on board with that but think there were better films made this year which could have got a nomination instead, if the academy wanted to give a shout out to black film-makers/actors. Sorry To Bother You, for example.
I haven’t watched Bohemian Rhapsody so can’t comment on whether it’s nomination was deserved or not. My missus loved it but she’s got fairly terrible taste in films.
I disagree. Sorry To Bother You was perfectly okay as a movie, but had very little cultural significance and is better suited to Cannes recognition than Oscar recognition.
In your example, "The Hate You Give" would have been a better suggestion - but none of them have anywhere near the cultural impact Black Panther has.
Bohemiam Rhapsody & Green Book shouldn't be anywhere near that list.
Black Panther probably should not be up for Best Picture but, there were obviously 2 bigger crimes when you look at what was nominated for best picture.
Huh? If Sorry to Bother You was one of the best films that came out in 2018 for that it should have been up for best picture. "Culture impact" should not be a consideration.
I haven’t watched Hate You Give but it’s on “The List” of movies I need to see. Supposed to be excellent.
I actually think Sorry to Bother You had a lot of cultural significance. With the whole neoliberal backlash going on right now it seems to be far more relevant to the world today (and the life experience of many black Americans) than CGI monsters punching each other in the face.
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I think if you read the thread, you'll see you're far from the only one. It was a really mediocre film, and the few people defending its nomination are just citing its 'cultural relevance' (which is a stupid criteria really to reward a film, in my opinion).
Who's getting worked up? It's just people who enjoy cinema who are discussing what they liked and didn't like over the past year.
Black Panther shouldn't be anywhere near that list as it was a mediocre film and that's what matters ultimately.
I enjoyed Sorry To Bother You, saw it twice even.
The discussion was why Black Panther was nominated and one of the reasons is that it's box office numbers, critical acclaim, general popularity and cultural impact. Also it is one of the biggest movies to feature a heavily diverse filmmaking crew & cast.
I just quoted Pogue's mention of another film which should have been nominated for cultural significance and diversity and suggested that in comparison to Black Panther, it pales in comparison.
Excellent might be stretching it, it's pretty good - but eh, opinions right?
I guess this is where I disagree - I think black people have been asking for more movies that they can relate to, that don't involve politics, or slavery, or racism just black people doing things white people get to do like be super heroes, dont die first in a horror movie, don't be a stereotype etc.
Sure, there's a space to represent societal impact that affects everyone, especially minorities - but not every movie that features minorities or a diverse cast has to be a think-piece.
Ok, and Bohemian Rhapsody & Green Book were worse but they're still on the list too.
The internet.
That is what the internet exist for.
Agree. I don't think that it was mediocre, but it was on par with the likes of first Iron Man, second Captain America or the third Thor. A decent superhero movie, which is a lot of fun, but that's it. Think that a lot of the critical praise was more for cultural relevance (as in being an all-black movie) rather than being a classic. Even from his very own genre, I think that Avengers 3 was worthy more of a nomination (though I wouldn't have nominated it too).
I haven't disputed that, as I haven't seen either.
BP was painfully average movie and the funniest thing about it is that Black Panther as a hero was painted far better and in a more interesting manner in the Civil War cameo than in his own movie. The only decent thing about it was the soundtrack for it.
It's not exactly breaking new ground though, is it?
I'm fully on board with wanting a bit more representation for black people in main stream cinema. I just can't get past Black Panther being a poor film. And I know, art is subjective, blah blah but come on, it's really pretty average, isn't it?
I never said Black Panther was the first and Blade was 20 years ago, in that time these things haven't been normalised within hollywood, and especially not at the budget that Black Panther had either. That's the point.It's not exactly breaking new ground though, is it?
I'm fully on board with wanting a bit more representation for black people in main stream cinema. I just can't get past Black Panther being a poor film. And I know, art is subjective, blah blah but come on, it's really pretty average, isn't it?
Everyone has opinions, I think Black Panther was one of the better Marvel movies - average is probably about right.
I just don't think the worst film on that list, and it's success will help normalise representation of black people & other minorities within cinema, and that is worth celebrating.
Overall it's a pretty terrible list. A Star Is Born was a cringe-fest too.
That probably explains why the BP nom is attracting the most criticism. It’s been watched by so many more people than those other two movies. You can’t criticise the nomination of a movie you haven’t watched.
The best picture list is pretty terrible considering it was a pretty good year for movies.
Agreed. It's legitimately a bad movie.
Poor CGI, poorly written and one dimensional characters .. there's some cool costume design and sets but that's about all I can say about it. The dialogue is beyond terrible because it has zero depth or subtlety, it's so stupidly in your face 'Don't scare me like that, colonizer!' that it ended up making me roll my eyes a lot more than anything else. Like you say, blank panther was great in Civil War (the best character IMO) and then he's just bland as bland can be in his own actual movie.
Killmonger was great too in fairness, I thought his motives were a bit of a stretch but otherwise he was actually interesting.
Overall, for me it's similar to Wonderwoman. It got hype and attention because it was seen to be breaking new ground but take all that away and all you have left is an average or even poor marvel movie. I don't see much difference in quality between it and Age of Ultron for example, and that film is roundly considered pretty terrible.
And watch, none of them are winning it
Come to think about it the Favorite probably has a shot as well.And watch, none of them are winning it
Love the lapse, Blank Panther
Bland Panther works too, in fairness.Black Panther deserve the nomination. It makes a gazillion of money, earned rave reviews and put forward an interesting scenario on colonialism and how detached African-American from their descendants. I'd argue that's it's the first Oscar nominated movie about racism that didn't have a white savior character in it.
I'd assume the this movie carries much more weight for black people in general and African-American specifically.
I'd assume the this movie carries much more weight for black people in general and African-American specifically.
Roma, Green Book, Bohemian Rhapsody all did well at Golden Globes didn't they? Vice picked up a couple too.
I'd be surprised if black panther does well in any of the main categories - whereas A Star is Born, Green Book & Bohemian Rhapsody are far more likely to, and that is a bigger travesty.
I'd be surprised if black panther does well in any of the main categories - whereas A Star is Born, Green Book & Bohemian Rhapsody are far more likely to, and that is a bigger travesty.
Love the lapse, Blank Panther
just realised that, what an apt mistake.Roma is the clear favourite.
Green Book will most likely get one for supporting actor (Ali). Rhapsody has a decent chance at best actor but I think Bale is the favourite, especially with the newest batch of allegations against Singer. Don't think Star is Born will get anything apart from best song. Black Panther's best chance is Costume Design, Production Design and maybe Score.
Ok but the Oscars are there to appreciate quality film-making, you're not meant to get nominated because you didn't have a white saviour character.
Take away all the political messages and how important it was to certain people and Black Panther is not a good film. It's a run of the mill Marvel flick.
It can be important and ground breaking whilst not being a great work of film, how much money it made also isn't relevant because again, the Oscars aren't there to celebrate how culturally important or financially successful a film is. Some very unsuccessful films financially have won Oscars because they're examples of great film, which is what the Oscars are there to reward.
This is the one area I would say it should definitely have a shot. Costume design was genuinely excellent.
Yeah I can't see past Roma, it should win too. Ali should win supporting actor, he's pretty much the best of a bad bunch and is a bit of a hollywood darling in recent years.
I hope Malek doesn't get best actor, but the rest of the field don't stand out either - I haven't seen Vice but Bale's performance in the trailer was more convincing.
I didn't say that. What I mean is Black Panther was unique in that sense. Especially for a blockbuster Hollywood movie. Slavery was seen from Killmonger point of view, how much he hated Wakanda, his heritage for letting every where else on the continent to be colonialise while they just hide and do nothing even though they had the power to fight back.
Why do we need to do that? the message is part of the movie. It's part of what make the movie good.
Culturally important and/or financial success can be a barometer of how good a movie is. Not necessarily every movie that won best picture at Oscar is art house movies that made no money.
So an in your face message with zero subtlety that a bunch of college students could have conjured up makes it worthy of an Oscar?
A positive message doesn't make for a good movie, full stop. You can't just stick a feel good, progressive message behind your film and rack up the awards, that's beyond ridiculous.
Financial success and being culturally important is a terrible barometer of how good a movie is. The transformer movies were mostly successful, it doesn't make them great examples of modern cinema. The oscars are there to recognise genuinely talented film making, no a film shouldn't have to be arty and poor commercially to win an oscar (plenty of big budget successes have deservedly won awards) but they do generally have to be very well acted, very well written, and in a film like black panther the CGI should be at the very least solid.
It was a poorly written, cliche ridden marvel movie with hammy dialogue and bad CGI. There were aspects that were impressive, but there's no way in a million years it should be up for Best Picture because it's nowhere near that. Strip away the fact that it's politically significant and you have yourself an average marvel movie.
So how would this compare to other Marvel films for you?
In your face or subtlety is not a must have for a good movie. And why a positive message can't be a good thing for a movie?
Titanic was the most profitable movie of all time and an Oscar winner
Again, why do we need to strip a part of the movie to judge it? A good movie is a combination of every aspect of it. Stripping part of it isn't a fair way to judge it.
We could do that to every movie and all will be average