Average. It's a run of the mill Marvel movie.
Arguably even below average in a lot of ways (with the costume/set design standing out as exceptional). I enjoyed it about as much as I did Age of Ultron.
Film Oscars 2019
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
Arguably even below average in a lot of ways (with the costume/set design standing out as exceptional). I enjoyed it about as much as I did Age of Ultron.
All this backlash against Black Panther here
The same with La La Land two years ago, where some people just have to let everyone know how superior their taste is and that the movie is below the usual film making masterpieces like "Spotlight", "The Artist", "The King's Speech", "Slumdog Millionaire","Crash", "Gladiator", "Shakespeare in Love", "Titanic", "Forrest Gump" etc etc
The same with La La Land two years ago, where some people just have to let everyone know how superior their taste is and that the movie is below the usual film making masterpieces like "Spotlight", "The Artist", "The King's Speech", "Slumdog Millionaire","Crash", "Gladiator", "Shakespeare in Love", "Titanic", "Forrest Gump" etc etc
I never said a positive message 'can't be a good thing for a movie'. I said it's not enough to put you up for an Oscar, or at least it shouldn't be. You judge the quality of a film on how good the actual film is, not how relevant the message behind it is.
Yeah? That was my point. There are big budget, profitable movies which have deservedly won Oscars. Titanic wasn't exactly my favourite but it was a vastly superior film to Blank Panther.
The point is it's hugely reliant on the relevance of its political message. That shouldn't be enough to win best picture, because it's nowhere even close to one of the best films made this year. You can't make a bad movie and go 'well that was shit, but hey valid message so oscar worthy!' because that's fecking stupid.
Black Panther isn't even very good at pushing its message, its ham fisted and cliched. Again, it's just an average marvel movie with a political message (with worse cgi than your average marvel movie). It doesn't even come near the likes of Civil War, Homecoming or the two Avengers films in terms of being a good comic book movie.
So what Marvel films would you have as good films?
To me I think they're all much of a muchness (I think IW was pretty terrible for example) with similar formulaic structures and storylines and the only difference is whether you, on a subjective level, emotionally resonate with the film.
What do you expect people to say? A pretty average movie got nominated for Best Picture, shock horror as this gets discussed in the Oscars thread.All this backlash against Black Panther here
The same with La La Land two years ago, where some people just have to let everyone know how superior their taste is and that the movie is below the usual film making masterpieces like "Spotlight", "The Artist", "The King's Speech", "Slumdog Millionaire","Crash", "Gladiator", "Shakespeare in Love", "Titanic", "Forrest Gump" etc etc
It's not about 'superior taste', it's just Black Panther legitimately isn't good, even people who like the movie because they think it's culturally important etc accept that it isn't actually a great film.
What do you think was oscar worthy about the film, aside from good costume/set design? Seriously? Do you think it was exceptionally written, acted or directed? Do you think the CGI was excellent?
I agree they’re all much of a muchness but thought Thor Ragnorok stood out because of it’s Waititified sense of humour and IW because of its ending, which was very cool compared to the formulaic baddy gets duffed up finale you get in every other superhero movie.
Black Panther was just meh. The only thing that made it stand out from every other Marvel movie was the ethnicity of its cast. Which is obviously laudable but doesn’t make it a better movie.
Also. It bears repeating. I don’t think any of the Marvel movies should be anywhere near a best movie nomination.
Just mentioned above, I think both Avengers/Homecoming were good, as was Civil War. They're still not great films, but they are fun popcorn flicks which were competently put together. They're good superhero films. If you aren't a fan of the genre it's not really worth seeing them, but if you are they're enjoyable, nothing more or less.
The Blind Side was nominated for Best Picture for this very reason, so why can't Black Panther? Sandra Bullock won a number of awards for her performance despite a very dodgy accent and not much else. Pretty terrible movie too.
In fact if we were to dissect the list of Oscar nominations over the years you'll find a lot of strange inclusions of underserving movies - I'm not sure why Black Panther deserves this much contempt.
It's literally just a nomination - if it wins Best Movie then i'll even join you in criticising it. I don't understand why it shouldn't be nominated though.
We agree on Thor, but surely the only defence you throw up for IW is just a simple reflection of the fact it's Part 1 of a two part film. Do we really have any expectations it won't end with the duffing up of the bad guy (after 4 hours rather than 2, bleurgh)?
See, I am a fan of the genre, but not enough of a fan to have seen every single film, and think that the most recent Avengers spectacle required that level of attention to carry it. I just spent half the time going 'what, wait, who the feck is that?' (although in fairness that's a reflection of having no recollection what the feck happened in Age of Ultron).
That's the clue right there. You think "oscar worthy" means Godfather or something, but I told you many movies in the last few years who are no better than Black Panther and they even won the fecking thing. There is more dross to be found in the nominations of the past few years like "Gravity", "Up in the Air", "Avatar etc.
I do think Black Panther was well written, the pacing was on point, the dialogue was the right mix of seriousness and Marvel corn and it has some good characters like Killmonger, T'Challa and 3 women who are not the damsels in distress who need to be saved, but actually competent at what they are doing and helping the story.
That's not even the point, it is just there is no reason to dismiss Black Panther for being nominated when you have dross like Spotlight winning best picture and movies with zero substance like Gravity and Avatar getting nominated. Oscar worthy means jack shit these days, just be happy when a film/actor you like gets celebrated. Nothing more, nothing less.
Films like Avatar and Gravity were nominated based on their exceptional CGI. I don't necessarily agree with that because other aspects of the films were average to poor, but at least they were excelling at one key element of the film. Black Panther was unremarkable in almost every way.
If you think Black Panther was well written and had good characters then all power to you, it's just that this is where we completely disagree. The dialogue was the definition of lazy writing 'how do we get this message across? make the characters say it out loud over and over again, that'll do' and I'm sorry but 3 women not being 'damsels in distress' doesn't make them good characters. None of the women in this film were well developed or felt like real humans, they were cringeworthy and one dimensional, constantly regurgitating cliche dialogue. Just because they were progressive that doesn't instantly make them interesting or well written, I couldn't tell you anything about their personalities aside from 'irritating scientist girl' or 'tough spear woman'. T'chala was better in Civil War and yeah Killmonger was decent, him and Klaw were the only characters of note in the whole film.
People are dismissing black panther because it's pretty clear it has been nominated for political reasons, rather than its actual merits as a film. Which is not what the Oscars is meant to be about.
It's worth noting that Disney and Marvel hired an Academy Awards strategist last summer to help Black Panther get nominations in awards season, so the studio has been desperate for this movie to get some awards even though they had massive box office figures which means tonnes of people went to see the thing anyway (as well as people going for repeat viewings).
It's a decent movie and it has a unique look but the way some people parade this movie, it's going to be remembered for the wrong reasons like the memes laughing at people who read way too much into it.
It's a decent movie and it has a unique look but the way some people parade this movie, it's going to be remembered for the wrong reasons like the memes laughing at people who read way too much into it.
You’re almost certainly right. I watched it with my kids, though, who wouldn’t have that same degree of cynicism and the ending was a proper gut punch for them. Caught me by surprise too. Hence it felt like a stand out amongst all the other colour by numbers superhero movies.
But yeah, we’re splitting hairs. None of them are remarkable movies in their own right. They all have utterly predictable plots (last few minutes of IW aside), corny dialogue, overly reliance on CGI heavy set pieces, mediocre acting, ADHD pacing etc etc Which is why I keep coming back to my original point in this thread...
Because it's a mediocre film and that having it nominated indicates it was one of the 10 best films this year. Which it really wasn't.
Also citing other shite films or performances doesn't really do much to justify BP's inclusion, it just goes to show the Oscars are a bit shit. And I'm very sure weird inclusions other years have been criticized the same, it's not like BP is being singled out.
I managed to watch Greenbook with the Sky VIP pass. Such a good movie. Well written, strong cast and surprisingly a lot of good humour.
I really hope Viggo Mortensen gets an award.
I really hope Viggo Mortensen gets an award.
I'd disagree - it shows that the Oscars have a history of doing just that, so it really shouldn't be a surprise.
I said it was a surprise?
I didn't say you did.
Surprise might be the wrong word, but rather the Oscars have included mediocre films pretty much every year - so it's to be expected that mediocre films are included this year.
Pretty much all the 'bad' oscar nominees mentioned in this thread were still better than Black Panther though. They weren't great films but they mostly had something great about them (CGI in the case of avatar or gravity, fantastic acting performances in terms of something like gladiator) and the majority listed had much better written and at least had more heart than Black Panther. Take away the whole political message stuff and you're left with a totally soulless movie with black panther, the characters all all cliched garbage, you never properly feel t'challas struggle to become a proper king .. it's just not developed at all, where is the conflict? He's basically just invincible and great at everything. I can't emphasise enough how weak and poorly developed the characters all are either.
The reason people are complaining is because its so blatantly obvious why this movie is getting a nomination. There's been far better superhero movies that won't even get close to this kind of recognition, in what world is that fair? Is this where we're going with cinema, stick a progressive message in and it's an instant great? People SHOULD be fighting back against that. Otherwise we're just going to end up with more movies like blank panther, totally bland competent but no more superhero films, why do any better when as long as it's considered culturally important you'll be an oscar nominee?
I feel like Coogler wasn't actually equipped to direct this film and was out of his depth. It's actually a huge shame because it could have been so much better, there was great potential in the raw material to do something so unique in the marvel universe, but it ended up just being really bland. I don't get why that should be rewarded. The political stuff in the film isn't even interesting or engaging, I might understand it getting a nomination if it handled this aspect really well, but all the political commentary in black panther was college film student level.
The reason people are complaining is because its so blatantly obvious why this movie is getting a nomination. There's been far better superhero movies that won't even get close to this kind of recognition, in what world is that fair? Is this where we're going with cinema, stick a progressive message in and it's an instant great? People SHOULD be fighting back against that. Otherwise we're just going to end up with more movies like blank panther, totally bland competent but no more superhero films, why do any better when as long as it's considered culturally important you'll be an oscar nominee?
I feel like Coogler wasn't actually equipped to direct this film and was out of his depth. It's actually a huge shame because it could have been so much better, there was great potential in the raw material to do something so unique in the marvel universe, but it ended up just being really bland. I don't get why that should be rewarded. The political stuff in the film isn't even interesting or engaging, I might understand it getting a nomination if it handled this aspect really well, but all the political commentary in black panther was college film student level.
Squishy really committed to making Blank Panther happen
It's shit like this which is why people aren't happy it got nominated (from an article I've just been reading).
“Dark Knight” should have been that first superhero best-picture nominee – that is, until you consider how inclusive and important a cultural achievement “Black Panther” became. One was a really great "Batman" movie; the other’s a populist movement. This is the one we've been waiting for, folks."
Basically, 'yeah dark knight was way better and all, but it didn't have some deep cultural meaning, this is what we've been waiting for, a really mediocre movie but as long as it has a black cast it's all good'.
And then the worst of the worst is articles like this https://www.salon.com/2019/01/23/bl...cture-oscar-nomination-the-dark-knight-didnt/ where people just blatantly try and make out the movie is something it wasn't in order to justify the nomination. I fecking wish the way the author of this article describes the film is how it actually was. He even has the cheek to say that people should be protesting because Coogler isn't getting nominated for his shitty script and praises the worst special effects of any marvel film.
“Dark Knight” should have been that first superhero best-picture nominee – that is, until you consider how inclusive and important a cultural achievement “Black Panther” became. One was a really great "Batman" movie; the other’s a populist movement. This is the one we've been waiting for, folks."
Basically, 'yeah dark knight was way better and all, but it didn't have some deep cultural meaning, this is what we've been waiting for, a really mediocre movie but as long as it has a black cast it's all good'.
And then the worst of the worst is articles like this https://www.salon.com/2019/01/23/bl...cture-oscar-nomination-the-dark-knight-didnt/ where people just blatantly try and make out the movie is something it wasn't in order to justify the nomination. I fecking wish the way the author of this article describes the film is how it actually was. He even has the cheek to say that people should be protesting because Coogler isn't getting nominated for his shitty script and praises the worst special effects of any marvel film.
Squishy really committed to making Blank Panther happen
I love it really.I now hope Black Panther wins.
C'mon Rhapsody!
Do it for John Deacon!
Do it for John Deacon!
Dark Knight not getting nominated that year is why we have more than 5 nominations now. And it is why we almost had the best popular movie category. Also the movies they nominated for Best Picture that year sort of sucked.
If Black Panther wins then what happens to the pretentious tripe that usually wins? I don’t think anyone has really thought about that.
Roma, BlacKkKlansman and the Favorite are all quality films and would be worthy winners.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
And Bohemian Rhapsody was nominated for best editing.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Like a parody without the jokes.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
It is basically Walk Hard.
Best actor nominee too
On a separate note, I saw Vice on the weekend and it only just confirmed even further that the best picture list is terrible
But Bale did a good job
All of those movies and every nomination this year, even the ones people object, were better than the self-aggrandizing industry crap that was Lala land.All this backlash against Black Panther here
The same with La La Land two years ago, where some people just have to let everyone know how superior their taste is and that the movie is below the usual film making masterpieces like "Spotlight", "The Artist", "The King's Speech", "Slumdog Millionaire","Crash", "Gladiator", "Shakespeare in Love", "Titanic", "Forrest Gump" etc etc
La La Land would be at least the 5th best film in this year's best picture race.
How many movies in the past 2 years have broken some kind of box office record? What record did it break exactly?
It had extraordinary numbers in America. Highest grossing film of the year (even ahead of Infinity War) and the third highest grossing film of all time (behind only Star Wars and Avatar).
Dear lord.