Shamima Begum, IS teen wants to come back to the UK

[hobbers]

Oh look, now we have a woman wanting to come back to the US from ISIS, too...

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/02/20/americas/isis-bride-alabama-wants-to-return-intl/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_term=link&utm_source=fbCNN&utm_content=2019-02-20T08:01:06&fbclid=IwAR0ZbgK5LPlWEqFkUNENff2qvfgL2VonQtUZ8vx06-pvPVNj8pbihs-W5OQ&r=https://m.facebook.com/

(CNN) — At the age of 19, a young woman from Hoover, Alabama traveled to Syria to join ISIS -- the so-called "Islamic State."
Five years and three husbands later, she says she regrets what she did and is begging to return to the US.

At least she'd be easy to prosecute given all her tweets.

"Go on drive-bys and spill all of their blood, or rent a big truck and drive all over them."

Only thing she regrets is that ISIS failed.

 

[ivaldo]

The fairest interpretation imo is that it’s not racially prejudiced in the sense that her being a Muslim of Bangladeshi descent was the primary factor behind the action taken, but her race certainly made it easier for it to materialise.

Perhaps, I can't say definitively that it wouldn't have added weight to the decision, but I firmly believe irrespective of race, the decision would have been the same.

If anything I would say our nation, and by extension the western worlds definition of terrorism would lead us to label an organization driven by the bastardisation of Islamic traditions as a terrorist threat, while calling say, a white supremacy group, as something very different. That's maybe a hang up from our own insular traditions, but that still doesn't mean this decision itself is racially motivated.

 

[Ian Reus]

Oh look, now we have a woman wanting to come back to the US from ISIS, too...

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/02/20/americas/isis-bride-alabama-wants-to-return-intl/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_term=link&utm_source=fbCNN&utm_content=2019-02-20T08:01:06&fbclid=IwAR0ZbgK5LPlWEqFkUNENff2qvfgL2VonQtUZ8vx06-pvPVNj8pbihs-W5OQ&r=https://m.facebook.com/

(CNN) — At the age of 19, a young woman from Hoover, Alabama traveled to Syria to join ISIS -- the so-called "Islamic State."
Five years and three husbands later, she says she regrets what she did and is begging to return to the US.

Trump can build a wall around her.

 

[Skills]

Oh look, now we have a woman wanting to come back to the US from ISIS, too...

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/02/20/americas/isis-bride-alabama-wants-to-return-intl/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_term=link&utm_source=fbCNN&utm_content=2019-02-20T08:01:06&fbclid=IwAR0ZbgK5LPlWEqFkUNENff2qvfgL2VonQtUZ8vx06-pvPVNj8pbihs-W5OQ&r=https://m.facebook.com/

(CNN) — At the age of 19, a young woman from Hoover, Alabama traveled to Syria to join ISIS -- the so-called "Islamic State."
Five years and three husbands later, she says she regrets what she did and is begging to return to the US.

At least she seems bright enough to congess 'regret' unlike our idiot

 

[Carolina Red]

At least she'd be easy to prosecute given all her tweets.

"Go on drive-bys and spill all of their blood, or rent a big truck and drive all over them."

Only thing she regrets is that ISIS failed.

Trump can build a wall around her.

At least she seems bright enough to congess 'regret' unlike our idiot

I’ll be honest guys, as ISIS crumbles and goes into diaspora with the loss of its land, I wouldn’t be surprised to see more and more women like these two asking to be repatriated... and I wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them.

Perfect opportunity for ISIS to infiltrate prisons or whatnot in the women’s home countries and use them as recruiting grounds.

They’re playing on western morality... “oh they’re young women... oh they’ve got children... etc.”

 

[That'sHernandez]

Right...

I say that firmly tongue in cheek, obviously.

No I was not aware of that, however I'm not entirely sure it's relevant as that is what our intelligence agencies are for.

 

[SwansonsTache]

The post-WWII world order is not as resilient as I had hoped.

Remember what we did with the nazi collaborators after the war? She is guilty of treason, just like them.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Remember what we did with the nazi collaborators after the war? She is guilty of treason, just like them.

Then try her, throw a Nuremberg style trial and have the Syrians, the Yazidi slaves testify against these IS followers. Pretending that nothing is going on or foisting her on another country who has nothing to do with it isn’t fair, nor just.

 

[Carolina Red]

I say that firmly tongue in cheek, obviously.

No I was not aware of that, however I'm not entirely sure it's relevant as that is what our intelligence agencies are for.

Because the intelligence service doesn’t have unlimited resources. If they bring her back and put her under 24/7 surveillance, they’ll be taking up a large amount of resources and those resources will necessarily be pulled from other terror suspects.

 

[That'sHernandez]

Because the intelligence service doesn’t have unlimited resources. If they bring her back and put her under 24/7 surveillance, they’ll be taking up a large amount of resources and those resources will necessarily be pulled from other terror suspects.

I don’t know what to say, needs must? Presumably she would have a custodial sentence (I can’t imagine a judge wouldn’t make an example of her were she to return) so it’s not like something like that would be on the cards immediately anyway. Then while she is rehabilitated in custody, her risk is likely to come down and therefore she would be less of a drain on intelligence agencies.

 

[Carolina Red]

I don’t know what to say, needs must? Presumably she would have a custodial sentence (I can’t imagine a judge wouldn’t make an example of her were she to return) so it’s not like something like that would be on the cards immediately anyway. Then while she is rehabilitated in custody, her risk is likely to come down and therefore she would be less of a drain on intelligence agencies.

You started this off by joking and making it out like MI5 would have such an easy time keeping tabs on her.

My point is that it is a manpower intensive process to monitor someone continuously, and MI5 is already stretched thin monitoring current terror suspects. All this would do is place a further burden on that service.

For perspective... there are about 4000 members of MI5 total. There are about 3000 terror suspects in the UK.

To monitor all of them 24/7, it would take about 60,000 people.

 

[That'sHernandez]

You started this off by joking and making it out like MI5 would have such an easy time keeping tabs on her.

My point is that it is a manpower intensive process to monitor someone continuously, and MI5 is already stretched thin monitoring current terror suspects. All this would do is place a further burden on that service.

I understand what your point is. The thing is we have a responsibility to her as a British Citizen and whether people think it or not, she is also a victim in all of this so at the end of the day, it’s really not relevant.

 

[Carolina Red]

she is also a victim in all of this

No she is not. That’s offensive to the real victims of ISIS.

 

[sun_tzu]

I understand what your point is. The thing is we have a responsibility to her as a British Citizen and whether people think it or not, she is also a victim in all of this so at the end of the day, it’s really not relevant.

Haven't they taken the legal steps to strip her of British citizenship (she has the right to appeal if she so chooses)
But as of today I think the legal status is she isn't a British citizen so legally speaking at least there is no responsibility / obligations

 

[Abizzz]

You started this off by joking and making it out like MI5 would have such an easy time keeping tabs on her.

My point is that it is a manpower intensive process to monitor someone continuously, and MI5 is already stretched thin monitoring current terror suspects. All this would do is place a further burden on that service.

For perspective... there are about 4000 members of MI5 total. There are about 3000 terror suspects in the UK.

To monitor all of them 24/7, it would take about 60,000 people.

Source? Seems massively inflated

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Source? Seems massively inflated

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...-exist-in-the-uk-and-how-is-it-used-by-police

20000 extremists with 3000 deemed as credible threats.

 

[Abizzz]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...-exist-in-the-uk-and-how-is-it-used-by-police

20000 extremists with 3000 deemed as credible threats.

So the people in charge of overseeing the terrorist say they have 3000 people they suspect of being terrorists without having evidence on any of those 3000?

Why not just arrest everyone on the list?
Margaret says that sometimes they do just that.

"If they are aware that there are people on the list who are near something big then they may actually arrest them.

"But if you don't have evidence, you can't charge," says Margaret.

They are basically saying in that article that if you're a young Muslim who's been to Istanbul you are on that list.

 

[Carolina Red]

Source? Seems massively inflated

From 2015...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3000-terror-suspects-plotting-to-attack-uk-t7hfpqfbbp6

From 2017...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/10/london-bridge-attackers-intelligence-overload

The number stays at around 3000.

 

[That'sHernandez]

No she is not. That’s offensive to the real victims of ISIS.

She has been groomed, radicalised and then sex trafficked into a war zone to be the wife of a man almost twice her age at the age of 15, so that she can produce the next generation of terrorists for Daesh. It's not as black and white as the scores of people killed and displaced by Daesh but she is still a victim, whether you want to think it or not.

Haven't they taken the legal steps to strip her of British citizenship (she has the right to appeal if she so chooses)
But as of today I think the legal status is she isn't a British citizen so legally speaking at least there is no responsibility / obligations

Indeed, the coward's way out so our current government can absolve themselves of the morally right decision they should have taken.

 

[Carolina Red]

She has been groomed, radicalised and then sex trafficked into a war zone to be the wife of a man almost twice her age at the age of 15, so that she can produce the next generation of terrorists for Daesh. It's not as black and white as the scores of people killed and displaced by Daesh but she is still a victim, whether you want to think it or not.

I’m sorry, but that shit just doesn’t fly for me. She chose to go there and ISIS had already gained international infamy by the time she did. She’s no victim “whether you think that or not”.

 

[2cents]

She has been groomed, radicalised and then sex trafficked into a war zone

This is an assumption on your part.

 

[Abizzz]

From 2015...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3000-terror-suspects-plotting-to-attack-uk-t7hfpqfbbp6

From 2017...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/10/london-bridge-attackers-intelligence-overload

The number stays at around 3000.

Thanks.

I can't read the entire times article but the guardian one is very interesting. I found this particularly interesting:

In other words, the process of prioritisation. Another shared fact from this year’s three UK attacks is that at some stage an active decision was taken to downgrade the perpetrators to the lowest of the four tiers that rank MI5’s current list of 3,000 subjects of interest. At the apex of the pyramid of cases known to the intelligence agencies is the category P1 – priority 1 – which is reserved for individuals linked to information indicating “attack planning”. These cases – rarely more than two dozen at a time – require mammoth resources, typically 24/7 covert surveillance. New leads are picked up, the behaviour of a suspect changes. Individuals are moved up and down the chart depending on the intelligence received, a perpetual process of review that is officially discussed each Monday at Thames House, the headquarters of MI5.

I guess it depends how you define "terrorist threat". I'd limit it to those they deem necessary of constant observation (even if that number is a lot higher than the number they do with the resources at hand) and the rest sympathizers or something, but I guess that's splitting hairs.

3000 terrorists just sounds like 3000 people ready to commit terrorists acts to me but maybe that is too narrow of a definition.

edit: To be fair I label her (Shamima) as a terrorist for joining them in this thread, and stand by that, so I might need to think about this a bit more.

 

[RedTillI'mDead]

I’ll be honest guys, as ISIS crumbles and goes into diaspora with the loss of its land, I wouldn’t be surprised to see more and more women like these two asking to be repatriated... and I wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them.

Perfect opportunity for ISIS to infiltrate prisons or whatnot in the women’s home countries and use them as recruiting grounds.

They’re playing on western morality... “oh they’re young women... oh they’ve got children... etc.”

Bang on...we need to finish off this war. If you leave a few rats they'll breed. Terrorists can't just be allowed to pick and choose when they want to do their terrorist thing. We need to be ahead of the game. This also applies to intelligence. The burden of proof should be very small if it means protecting the greater good.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

So the people in charge of overseeing the terrorist say they have 3000 people they suspect of being terrorists without having evidence on any of those 3000?



They are basically saying in that article that if you're a young Muslim who's been to Istanbul you are on that list.

They will have evidence on all 20000 of some sort, from that they are known to associate in extremist circles, they have credible intelligence from public or that they are known to have traveled to camps etc.

The paragraph that you quoted details how anti terror units will pick up higher level risks when they are near major events like the Olympics to let them know they're being watched.

 

[DouLou]

She has been groomed, radicalised and then sex trafficked into a war zone to be the wife of a man almost twice her age at the age of 15, so that she can produce the next generation of terrorists for Daesh. It's not as black and white as the scores of people killed and displaced by Daesh but she is still a victim, whether you want to think it or not.



Indeed, the coward's way out so our current government can absolve themselves of the morally right decision they should have taken.

Christ you need a slap.

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

I don’t know what the jail sentence is for being a member of a banned terrorist organisation is but most people only serve a third of their sentence (good behaviour). Rest is parole.

Nope. Its half. And it's for any crime under a certain punishment guideline, which iirc is 15 years.

 

[DouLou]

I’m sorry, but that shit just doesn’t fly for me. She chose to go there and ISIS had already gained international infamy by the time she did. She’s no victim “whether you think that or not”.

Don't you know at 15 its impossible to make a decision without being radicalized or groomed? Oh and double impossible if you're a girl.

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

It’s as if history never told us that granting the state the power to eliminate elements it feels as ‘threatening’, in the name of security for the masses, is a colossally stupid idea with grave consequences.

Mental innit

 

[Precaution]

She has been groomed, radicalised and then sex trafficked into a war zone to be the wife of a man almost twice her age at the age of 15, so that she can produce the next generation of terrorists for Daesh. It's not as black and white as the scores of people killed and displaced by Daesh but she is still a victim, whether you want to think it or not.



Indeed, the coward's way out so our current government can absolve themselves of the morally right decision they should have taken.

Wow, glad you wernt around in the 1940's... "That Hitler, what a guy, just a few bad eggs around him that led him down a darkpath"

Pull the other one, you are why the UK has been a complete soft touch for years, finally its growing a backbone.

 

[Red Diva]

I'm sorry, I understand what you are saying and certainly with your background you know these things as an absolute but I've been working with teenage kids for nearly twenty years and some of their choices have been criminal, ridiculous and even dangerous not just to themselves. There is no end to the new ridiculous I can learn I'm afraid.

A few years ago I watched a TV interview with a very eloquent, charismatic gentleman who was working to help de-radicalise young people. He explained how groups went about radicalising/brainwashing youngsters over the internet, over a period of time. It was easy to see how disenchanted people could quickly be drawn into supporting radical groups.

 

[Carolina Red]

Thank you.

As a Kurd it makes me sick we’re showing these monsters any semblance of compassion after the sick, barbaric acts they’ve committed. The fact she seems to feel no remorse only dignifies that.

I don’t want her hurt or tortured but maybe spare the compassion for the real victims instead.

I didn't realize you were Kurdish. I've got a great deal of respect for your fighting folk. They've done a heck of a job against ISIS.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Wow, glad you wernt around in the 1940's... "That Hitler, what a guy, just a few bad eggs around him that led him down a darkpath"

Pull the other one, you are why the UK has been a complete soft touch for years, finally its growing a backbone.

He was, back when his username was Neville Chamberlain.

 

[That'sHernandez]

He was, back when his username was Neville Chamberlain.

...he hates scousers!

 

[oates]

A few years ago I watched a TV interview with a very eloquent, charismatic gentleman who was working to help de-radicalise young people. He explained how groups went about radicalising/brainwashing youngsters over the internet, over a period of time. It was easy to see how disenchanted people could quickly be drawn into supporting radical groups.

We don't say that young minds are so impressionable for nothing.

 

[Mozza]

Did we execute every single member of the German army after the war? The answer is no.

 

[Red Defence]

Nope. Its half. And it's for any crime under a certain punishment guideline, which iirc is 15 years.

You may well be right which would likely have her released in 2-3 years.

 

[SwansonsTache]

Did we execute every single member of the German army after the war? The answer is no.

Did individual countries execute Nazi collaborators due to treason after the war? The answer is yes.

 

[Mozza]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

All posturing to win the upcoming Tory leadership election

 

[Mozza]

Did individual countries execute Nazi collaborators due to treason after the war? The answer is yes.

Thankfully we've moved beyond executing people

 

[That'sHernandez]

Did individual countries execute Nazi collaborators due to treason after the war? The answer is yes.

Were all collaborators and even members of the Nazi party executed? The answer is no.