Nope, she's British. She was born here of British parents
Shamima Begum, IS teen wants to come back to the UK
- Thread starter Tommy
- Start date
Sounds to me like you're also in Isil
Not really. Many girls who are trafficked into the sex industry travel on nothing more than reassurances that they've got a normal job waiting at the other end
She’s a British citizen. Does the UK government have any legal basis for making her stateless?
She should be taken back here, face criminal investigation and then see what, if anything, can be done. If she cannot be rehabilitated then I’d be happier if the taxpayer footed the bill for monitoring her than paying for prison sentences for petty criminals who needn’t be inside.
It’s a despicable organisation she joined, but there’s no precedent for withdrawing citizenship because of that and it’s a slippery slope to start now.
I'm the least religious person you'll meet. I just don't pretend that we are any better than them
Two of her kids died and she wants a better chance for her new one
Yes, nothing about being roped into a lie and promised an honest job half way around the world.
She’s definitely British with that sense of entitlement.
Wonder how many other Muslims in this country think like she does and just didn’t quite take that final step
Wonder how many other Muslims in this country think like she does and just didn’t quite take that final step
Lawyers have told the BBC that under Bangladesh law, a UK national like Ms Begum who is born to a Bangladeshi parent is automatically a Bangladeshi citizen. That means that such a person would have dual nationality. The Bangladeshi authorities however assert Ms Begum is not a Bangledeshi citizen. Under this "blood line" law, Bangladeshi nationality and citizenship lapse when a person reaches the age of 21, unless they make active efforts to retain it. So, it is Ms Begum's age, 19, that is likely - in part - to have given Home Office lawyers and the home secretary reassurance there was a legal basis for stripping her of her UK citizenship. In 2017, the government lost an appeal case brought by two British citizens of Bangladeshi origin who were stripped of their citizenship when they were abroad. The Special Immigration Appeals Commission ruled that E3 and N3 had not tried to retain their citizenship before they reached the age of 21, and so it had automatically lapsed. That meant that the decision to strip them of their UK citizenship had rendered them stateless. Ms Begum's case is different. Her Bangladeshi citizenship, if established, would remain intact until she reaches 21, even if she has never visited the country or made active efforts to retain her citizenship
Oh I’m sure they did and I’m sure they knew exactly what they were joining.
Isn't that obvious?
Lawyers have told the BBC that under Bangladesh law, a UK national like Ms Begum who is born to a Bangladeshi parent is automatically a Bangladeshi citizen. That means that such a person would have dual nationality. The Bangladeshi authorities however assert Ms Begum is not a Bangledeshi citizen. Under this "blood line" law, Bangladeshi nationality and citizenship lapse when a person reaches the age of 21, unless they make active efforts to retain it. So, it is Ms Begum's age, 19, that is likely - in part - to have given Home Office lawyers and the home secretary reassurance there was a legal basis for stripping her of her UK citizenship. In 2017, the government lost an appeal case brought by two British citizens of Bangladeshi origin who were stripped of their citizenship when they were abroad. The Special Immigration Appeals Commission ruled that E3 and N3 had not tried to retain their citizenship before they reached the age of 21, and so it had automatically lapsed. That meant that the decision to strip them of their UK citizenship had rendered them stateless. Ms Begum's case is different. Her Bangladeshi citizenship, if established, would remain intact until she reaches 21, even if she has never visited the country or made active efforts to retain her citizenship
She was expecting a life fulfilling what she thought was her duty to God, to be wife of someone who was fighting for an Islamic state. It's a job
She joined a death cult which had on many occasions publicised their rape, torture and murder of innocent civilians. She saw her fellow members behead people. She supported a husband and friends who were engaged in this genocide. She had no issues with this, and isn’t remorseful. She would not be coming back if the caliphate wasn’t being dismantled and she would continue to believe that traitors and disbelievers should be murdered. She doesn’t talk about the crimes her organsiation has committed, only that she wants symapthy for herself and her situation. She is only thinking about herself. Yes, she was 15 and influenced by her environment. But who isn’t? We can have a discussion about free will if you want but she did an absolutely abhorrent thing. No one is innocent, but there are gradations of guilt and culpability and her’s are all the way to one side. People do bad things, 15 years old probably do more, but they should be punished. Firstly to protect society, and society does need protection from her and people like her (genocidal terrorists). Secondly for rehabilitation, how will she learn if she gets away scot-free? Thirdly as deterrence, because joining terrorist organisations is bad.
She should be brought back to the UK and sentenced, harshly. Her baby should be well looked after. There should be no sympathy for her, as she shows none for those who have been the victims of her beliefs.
Perhaps you should spend a little less time defending entitled girls from rich countries who decide to join genocidal fanatics and a little more time on the innocents who are being killed in their own countiees by said fanatics?
Well if we are not, would you mind if our government were run by Isis instead since there is no difference? It would be great as all the Shia's, Sunni's, Christians, LBGT, Yazidis Jews, could all live peacefully in Britain then couldn't they as they would obviously be as open minded?
We live peacefully here whilst our government murders many of the people you listed over there.
An accident of birth. As opposed to her conscious choice as a 15 year old to go to IS. And, going back to the WWII analogy that you started, if she had gone to fight for Germany as a British citizen, she would be facing a lot worse than losing her passport.
Anyway, that’s enough for tonight. I can see from your subsequent post that we are in the realms of “we are all as bad as each other” nihilism. In the context of IS, that’s quite something.
Isis are no more a death cult than any other group trying to carve out a bit of the world to call their own.
Is she really stateless? She currently resides in Syria, last i checked that was still a country?
Unlikely. From the time ISIS took Raqqa in 2013, they were mostly fighting against the other anti-Assad rebel groups, and increasingly the Iraqi government. Their propaganda reflected this. I have all the issues of Dabiq from that time, the anti-Assad stuff was pretty insignificant.
Here's an ISIS manual from January 2015 aimed at female recruits, the table of contents gives a sense of what ISIS typically based their appeal on:
1.Translation: Women in the Islamic State –a manifesto
1.1Introduction
1.2Manifesto on Muslim Life
1.3Manifesto on Muslim women
1.4The failure of the western model for women
1.5How the soldiers of the devil keep women from Paradise
1.6Secondary functions of a woman
1.7The difference between studying and earning a living
1.8 Suggestions for a curriculum for Muslim women
1.9 Proposals for women compelled to serve the community outside the house
1.10 The ideal model for Muslim women
2.Translation: Women in the Islamic State –a case study
2.1 Nineveh
2.2 Hijab
2.3 Security
2.4 Justice
2.5 Daily life
2.6 Medicine
2.7 Education
2.8 Raqqa
2.9 State of muhaajirat
3.Translation: Comparison between the Hypocritical State and the Islamic State
3.1 Fear
3.2 Westernisation
3.3 Poverty
3.4 Injustice
4.Translation: Closing remarks
4.1 Conclusion
1.1Introduction
1.2Manifesto on Muslim Life
1.3Manifesto on Muslim women
1.4The failure of the western model for women
1.5How the soldiers of the devil keep women from Paradise
1.6Secondary functions of a woman
1.7The difference between studying and earning a living
1.8 Suggestions for a curriculum for Muslim women
1.9 Proposals for women compelled to serve the community outside the house
1.10 The ideal model for Muslim women
2.Translation: Women in the Islamic State –a case study
2.1 Nineveh
2.2 Hijab
2.3 Security
2.4 Justice
2.5 Daily life
2.6 Medicine
2.7 Education
2.8 Raqqa
2.9 State of muhaajirat
3.Translation: Comparison between the Hypocritical State and the Islamic State
3.1 Fear
3.2 Westernisation
3.3 Poverty
3.4 Injustice
4.Translation: Closing remarks
4.1 Conclusion
Do you expect to be taken seriously with this nonsense?
I don't know if she saw this specific video. Just like you haven't got a fecking clue what persuaded her to make the trip, or if she was groomed, brainwashed, etc. What we both do know is that the genocide and slave-raiding campaign waged by the Orcs of Morder against the Middle East's most vulnerable religious minority was big news throughout that summer, since it ultimately produced this:
Of course, ISIS had already grabbed the attention of the West before that, when they took Mosul and Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi declared the caliphate and war on the rest of the world, and called on all Muslims to pledge allegiance to him. Remember? It is what sparked the ISIS thread on the Cafe:
ISIS Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi first Friday sermon as so-called 'Caliph'
Between June 2014 and February 2015 when the girls left, beheadings were also in the news, Jihadi John was at the height of his fame, and the siege of Kobane was in full swing. It is not credible to suggest that anyone with an interest in ISIS was unaware of these things throughout that period.
She’s not a citizen of Syria though. Essentially we are dumping our problem on Syria.
Oh really? I'm not so sure. Isis murders all of them and it's their actual end game. Do you think the UK set out to exterminate certain groups? Isis are committing actual genocide.
What's one more? It's not as if this is a Tom Hanks or rather the real story based on Mehran Karimi Nasseri stuation where she's stuck at a airport with nowhere to go, besides leave her at Heathrow for a month she'll want back to Syria anyway.
We caught a whole bunch of people spying for Germany who were never charged with anything. A few men who fought for the Germans were tried and imprisoned
Every word that comes out of her mouth convinces me that she's a terrible person, but sadly she is our terrible person and must be allowed to return.
Sajid Javid is playing games here anyway. He knows it's likely to be overturned in court, but he wants to play tough guy as a pitch for PM.
Sajid Javid is playing games here anyway. He knows it's likely to be overturned in court, but he wants to play tough guy as a pitch for PM.
@Mozza apogies if I missed it but what do you think is the best course of action regarding this?
Edit: also do you think she poses any risk? Or she simply misunderstood what she went out to and now wants to live peacefully with her child?
Edit: also do you think she poses any risk? Or she simply misunderstood what she went out to and now wants to live peacefully with her child?
Not sure you know what stateless means. Doesn’t mean your stuck in international waters..
Anyway I guess one more doesn’t matter I suppose if everyone does their part in the refugee crisis.
We are bomb makers for Saudi whilst they murder Yemenis, sanctioned hundreds of thousands to death in Iraq and are pretty careless with our bombing in Syria
She comes back, trial if there's anything to charge her with. Also she goes through a deradicalisation program. Her kid will probably end up in care or with a relative
Having compassion towards the predicament folks like Begum find themselves in is one thing, veering dangerously close to being an Isis apologist is another.
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Or maybe so that it will come as a dreadful shock to her that no country wants her because of her allegiance to IS and maybe she will learn to understand exactly why that is.
If she had just returned to her family, gone to prison for a couple of years then joined up with her husband again it wouldn’t have necessarily had a great deal of effect. Even now she is saying that she will just move to Holland and live there with her husband. If Holland also refuse to let her live there then the reality of what she has involved herself with may finally sink in. The seriousness of this situation is likely to have a more powerful effect than a prison sentence would imo anyway.
I agree.
Where you say ‘if’ there’s anything to charge her with, I find that troubling. I don’t know enough about criminal charges to know if there will be anything. There’d be national outcry if she just came home and walked the streets I should imagine though, they’d have to find something. Then a possible short prison sentence and put into a protection scheme of sorts because I doubt she’d be safe when released and constant surveillance.
Seems a bit too comfortable after the choices she’s made that’s all but I can’t see any other ‘right’ thing to do
Nice.
The law is that she can travel there without Visa, nothing to do with citizenship.
Totally agree with your sentiment but it doesn't change the fact that she was born, bred and radicalised in Britain. She's our problem, like it or not. If she wants to go to Holland and is allowed to do so then that's her choice.
I belive there's another Bangladeshi who came back and was charged with nothing. The only difference here is publicity. Britain has a new hate figure
Her marriage actually has to be officially recognised for this to happen no? I doubt they followed any official procedure during their marriage in Syria. Most likely a religious ceremony, which I guess won't be recognised.
No idea. If they are European citizens though they can move freely throughout Europe and live where they want, in theory anyway.