How are you making the distinction between prejudices and "actual racists"?
Mass Shooting in Christchurch, NZ Mosque | 14th March 2019
- Thread starter Carolina Red
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Cheers. So it's the communities that breed the extremist mindsets? Hope authorities are paying them sufficient attention.
Was watching a segment earlier where they mentioned people being subconsciously influenced by the online communities they frequent... It's a fair point, libcafe has influenced a lot of us to varying degrees, in different ways...
That's a very accurate summary in my eyes.
The most accurate definition is W****kers.
Seeing people on Facebook complain that it's not being described as a terrorist attack but the Prime Minister of NZ has called it one, The Daily Mail has also called the perpetrator a terrorist.
It seems like people just want to use these incidents to push their own narratives which aren't true. Yes, previously the media has mislabelled things but I don't see that today.
It seems like people just want to use these incidents to push their own narratives which aren't true. Yes, previously the media has mislabelled things but I don't see that today.
Where is this actually up to now? Doesn't look like they've been found yet? Is it actually 'they'? Initial reports were of multiple people but the video was one.
The internet is part of real life. That distinction doesn’t make sense anymore.
And of course other things feed into this. But it’s no coincidence, that this horrible person chose to stream what he did on one of those pages. We don’t need to forbid them, but we must find ways to hold them accountable. Starting with the big ones, like Google and Facebook.
Did you just learn about 8chan?
The platform was already well established. The THQ Nordic employee made a mistake and didn't do his research. Their CEO publicly apologized and their brand took a hit. It has literally nothing to do with the shooting in new Zealand. As far as I can tell you're the singular person on the internet making this tenuous connection. It's utterly bizarre and misplaced anger.
People just want to be outraged. Another issue with the internet.
Earlier reports said four people were arrested, three men and a women. Not sure if there's been any update to this.
Apparently the guy visited Pakistan and other Muslim countries a few months back and was like the people are so nice etc
In the scheme of things an incident like this justifies the outrage no? This is not one of those times where the outrage is excessive, it's understandable imo... People are worried. It's normal...
If people aren't outraged by 49 innocent deaths, there is no need for the word outrage in a dictionary.
By actual racists, I'm talking about the people that follows and develop racists theories, 'actual racists' isn't the appropriate term but I'm talking about the lost causes the ones that won't be affected by experience. On the other hand you have all the people that know absolutely nothing about a certain community but will have a preconceived opinion that can and will be altered by experience.
I'm not normalizing anything, I'm not defending anyone I'm simply saying that it's not the same public.
Saw that one, ta. Didn't know if it was confirmed.
In the manifesto it mentions visiting other countries and enjoying his time, everyone was welcoming etc. Seemed like it was mostly Europe unless I missed something. Was only skimming through it. He did mention he was happy for everyone to be in their own country and visit others but not 'take over the land' or some bullshit.
I don't think looking to be outraged about what the media calls it is justified at this time, personally. Especially if it's wrong as @horsechoker says. People were saying it before most media had even had a chance to report it properly. It's a fair comment of course, if correct, but it's some people's go to instead of concern about what happened.
That's not what I'm talking about and you know it.
I'm not sure why so much interest is given to these manifestos from right wing nut jobs. All I gather from snippets of them is that they are filled with irrational beliefs. It is literally the ramblings of a mad man in the form of text.
Absolutely. The silence and lack of outrage from those pricks is deafening. It was only a matter of time before this happened, and sadly this will not be the first or last time this happens. The rise of right-wing extremism has been allowed to happen, toxic opinions allowed to fester. The anti-immigration rhetoric, the rise of Trump, Farage, Brexit, MAGA, Hopkins, Robinson have all contributed in one way or another in the radicalisation of mindless arseholes like the shooter today.
I hope the world wakes up and realises that ISIS is not the only danger and there is a deep undercurrent of racism and Islamophobia brewing that needs to be addressed. I won't hold my breath though.
I am lost for words. This bastard deserves to be sacked immediately and prosecuted for hate speech. I hope his career goes down the shitter.
We need to stop voting stupid people into power and making them famous.
It's benign as feck. So what if people are upset that various public figures are avoiding calling it a terrorism incident? It's not a new feeling, it happens every time....
You can disagree with it on a case by case basis, but having a general feeling that they are seeking offence (without any investigation) is about as useful as... Seeking offence. Come on mate...
Anyway, in the whole range of possible reactions, it's relatively harmless, and it's valid in some instances...
It's not a general feeling about people not calling it terrorism. It's a comment on outrage in general, but also a comment about the point horsechoker made in this specific instance. If it's not correct as horsechoker says, it's literally just looking to be outraged without the facts. I was responding to what he said. Feck me.
You have plenty of people who have a preconceived opinion of other races, despite knowing nothing about them or their community - this is common with Islamophobia especially - are you suggesting that these people are prejudiced and not racist?
You don't have to follow and develop racist theory in order to be racist - this is why I said what I said about normalising racism (to be clear, I wasn't saying you were normalising it, I'm saying that this is how easy it is to normalise it) racism doesn't only manifest itself in white nationalists with an ideology, there's plenty of normal people who exhibit racist behaviours. Ignoring those people, or refusing to call them out on their racism, normalises it.
That is f*cking atrocious.
I lived in NZ for two years so this one feels a lot closer to home and has affected me a bit more than other similar shootings. The internet is absolutely toxic at times and it's quite clear these kinds of people just reverberate the same hateful opinions to one an another until one of them snaps. Feeling very deflated and upset by the way the world appears to be going.
The mental gymnastics of the far right will never cease to amaze me. "Yeah actually it's not the gunman's fault for shooting these people but it's the peoples fault for coming here and making us afraid."
These people are also racist and the refusal to call them just that, helps to normalize that ideology and makes it feel as an acceptable, because not racist, opinion. What you’re showing here, while I do understand how it’s meant and that there isn’t any harm intended, is basically an intrinsic refusal to accept the reality of widespread racism, in order to protect yourself from possible guilt or shame for family members and friends, that showcase similiar ideology.
Or in short: you don’t call it racism, because you don’t want to, because that would mean, that there are friends and family of yours, who are indeed racist. Which, sadly, is also normal. Just hard to accept.
Regardless of what he said, and you repeated. It's not irrational to upon hearing of these events, criticise certain social media for commenting on this and omitting details in order to keep their social media following onside, or to push an alternate narrative (bearing in mind the part that social medias influence plays in these incidents). It is what it is...
Even the Nazis thought they were acting on self defense. They have to believe this, otherwise they would have to accept the fact that they are terrible people.The mental gymnastics of the far right will never cease to amaze me. "Yeah actually it's not the gunman's fault for shooting these people but it's the peoples fault for coming here and making us afraid."
His view was that he doesn't hate Muslims in their countries, he hates Muslims in European countries (he considers US, Australia and co. parts of Europe, which culturally they are to a large degree). The 'cultural genocide' and 'Eurabia' all over again.
That's fine. I'm not talking about that or everyone who makes the (very valid) point. I'm talking about the people who are looking to be outraged about it before even knowing the facts, which is what horsechoker alluded to.
Depressing really. The incident and what this community has gone through before this. You bet your average Muslim living in the west spend a majority of his time defending his action, going out of their way to show they're not terrorists and then this happens.
This is just the way things are. It was Jews under Hitler, the Japense in America and then the Blacks. Mob mentality against a community gets formed and gives rise to such hateful voices.
But sure let's let the likes of a vice president of the United states tell people how Islam isnt a religion but rather a **** following.
This is just the way things are. It was Jews under Hitler, the Japense in America and then the Blacks. Mob mentality against a community gets formed and gives rise to such hateful voices.
But sure let's let the likes of a vice president of the United states tell people how Islam isnt a religion but rather a **** following.
True. They were protecting themselves from a Jewish conspiracy... and of course 8chan and 4chan are already filled with posts that this was a Jewish false flag operation to strengthen the narrative of "white people are awful" and make their governments take away their guns that at the day the when the Jews will turn our governments into socialist regimes they are able to do it without people being able to defend themselves.
I really sometimes wonder how people get this fecked up in the head that they think this reflects the reality which we live in. But hey it's not them being messed up in the head, it's us "normies" refusing to be red pilled.
It's the same with each of these tragedies these days it seems.
But both believe they are doing it for overall societies benefit.
Also, willing to bet most of the pawns in ISIS or Taliban dont really give a shit about the religious aspect. They're often young teens impressed by guns and heavy armor and shootin' up the enemy.
You suddenly go from herding sheep in the desert to being part of an action movie.
You can always be sure of a cnut or cnuts somewhere going on a mass shooting. Nobody and no place is safe anymore.
RiP to all the victims.
RiP to all the victims.
My experience is that you can't tell until you have interacted with these people, for a large part they are no different to eurosceptics claiming for example that the EU is a dictatorship. They are simply parroting things that they heard, they don't really have strong believes, just vague notions. They could be racists or eurosceptics, or they could be parrots, you will know after you have interacted with them and that interaction will tell you how you need to handle them.
To me the normalization comes from the lack of actual interaction, lots of people are extremely ignorant and sometimes not aware of their ignorance. Maybe I'm wrong to differentiate the people that know what they are talking/doing about and the ones that don't have a clue.
A problem I saw in your post is that the real world factors you mentioned were basically limited to neoliberalism and economic hardship. Not saying that's all you deem relevant, but in that regard I can understand the critical reaction. Of course the pressure of worsening economic conditions can't be ignored as a central factor. But it only goes so far in explaining some aspects, like the racism among people who aren't facing economic deprivation, or the misogyny and homophobia often involved.
But I agree that internet consumption as such isn't the problem & that it's rather what draws certain people into certain sections of the web. The way the internet works is certainly massively supporting these developments, though.
Horrible news to wake up to.
This Islamophobia comes from the media. British tabloids like the Daily Mail & The Express have been spreading hate speak for years. I don't know what it's like in NZ but it's blatantly obvious in the UK.
This Islamophobia comes from the media. British tabloids like the Daily Mail & The Express have been spreading hate speak for years. I don't know what it's like in NZ but it's blatantly obvious in the UK.
Sickening attack. Some people are just pure evil and deserve to rot in jail for the rest of their lives.
RIP
RIP
49 dead? Absolute madness.
Did anyone watch the video? Heard about it but have no intention to...
I'm surprised there haven't been more incidents like this tbh, given the sheer number of Islamist terrorist attacks in the West over the past 20 years.