Are those stats for the PL or all competitions? @Pogue Mahone
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Goals
- 16
- Assists
- 14
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
Dunno. Have copied and pasted from t’other thread.
How does that compare to other midfielders in the league and in the team? Because fullbacks and forwards will logically be involved in more sprints, CBs too when they chase opposing forwards which is why they often feature in top speed rankings like Jagielka a few years ago.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...nning-stats-liverpool-are-king-of-the-sprints
Found this, back to Mar 18th. Number of sprints + distance covered at this point.
Found this, back to Mar 18th. Number of sprints + distance covered at this point.
I found the one from last season and CMs aren't well represented in it, at the exception of Doucouré, Allen and Alli(even though he plays more as a forward) who are a little bit freakish.
Distance covered has mostly midfielders but sprints are dominated by forwards and fullbacks.
No idea. Would love to see the data. Find it hard to believe that sprinting 6 or less times in 90 minutes is normal for a CM. Not when they’re expected to try and overtake opposition players running through our midfield (and all too familiar sight!) Could be wrong though.
Yup but Doucouré isn't exactly normal because Watford use him as a CM if I'm not mistaken, if we want to press he could be an interesting option.
I think both are logical. Midfielders usually cover more ground as they operate between defense and offense so they'll ran more than rest of positions, but doing a sprint is usually the job of fullbacks and attackers to get past defenders or get a through ball.
What is this about sprints per 90 minutes all of a sudden? A new reason why Pogba needs to leave the club?
I doubt Scholes or Carrick sprinted a lot more than Pogba does during 90 minutes. If are already at the right position, dont have to chase your opponent or "let the ball do the running" you dont really need to sprint that much as a central midfielder.
There have been matches where Pogba was sprinting past his opponents while carrying the ball from defense to attack near the end of the game... he sprints when he needs to sprint and not just runs around when he doesnt have to run. (like 'hard working' Lingard does)
I doubt Scholes or Carrick sprinted a lot more than Pogba does during 90 minutes. If are already at the right position, dont have to chase your opponent or "let the ball do the running" you dont really need to sprint that much as a central midfielder.
There have been matches where Pogba was sprinting past his opponents while carrying the ball from defense to attack near the end of the game... he sprints when he needs to sprint and not just runs around when he doesnt have to run. (like 'hard working' Lingard does)
By the way there is something strange about your stats from September. Look at this article from Sky about Pogba, he is far higher than 6 sprints per game.
There’s definitely a different definition of “sprints” being used. The Sky Sports data has him regularly doing 60 sprints/90 minutes. Which seems incredibly high, compared to the other data (also seems kind of implausible?).
Not sure if there's a universal concept for sprints. I've seen it described as greater than x kph, but I've also seen it done as a relatively thing (i.e. the number of times he reached a speed greater than 90% of his top speed). Either way, there's obviously lots of reasons as to why it might be high or low. Some people have an explosive style, others do not. Depending on the definition, i doubt that Xavi and Kroos have a lot of sprints but they are still great. From an outsider's perspective it looks like Pogba is always looking for an incisive pass, and is willing to hold the ball to get the opportunity. In some cases this works, but if no-one makes the movement he can hold too long and rather than play safe, he can lose the ball. He's so obviously the united threat that I also think that his teammates can't take advantage of the double team on him.
This seems to match up with the view that when united play well, he is great, but if united don't, he can be a bit of a liability. He makes things happen for other people as opposed to other people making things happen for him in the main. Or at least that's how I see it.
This seems to match up with the view that when united play well, he is great, but if united don't, he can be a bit of a liability. He makes things happen for other people as opposed to other people making things happen for him in the main. Or at least that's how I see it.
More or less completely meaningless without breaking down “per 90”. Which is, weirdly, pointed out in the post you’re replying to.
Whatever suits your agenda, you see Pogba as the main problem in our side judging by the tone of your posts.
I don't.
When Pogba has more crosses than our RW (Lingard) and half as many as bout our LW (Martial) added together..he ain't the issue.
He's our best player by a country feckin mile.
There are two things that I notice, your first stats are a total not a per game stat and they are very low compared to PL stats where for example Delle Alli had +2000 sprints last season. So not only Sky changed their definition but they are also not using the same ratio.
He is one of the main problems in our side!
He's our marquee signing and our best player on paper yet he is turning up once every 3-4 games in the past 6 weeks. Somehow when he's off his game or can't be arsed let's be honest....he negatively effects the efforts of others as well which is very odd in itself.
He should be our best player every week by a country mile and whats more the best player on the pitch most weeks.....how many MOM awards has he got whilst we've been getting our arse handed to us my Wolves and co. His head has been turned and his form has dropped off a cliff. No agenda here either.
The thing is, I agree with the last sentence. Certainly the most talented. Maybe De Gea runs him close. But that’s why it grinds my gears when he so often coasts through games, or fecks about on the ball, slowing everything down. It’s not as though he hasn’t had objectively class performances for United. He’s probably had more top individual performances than any other player in our team this season (apart from, maybe, Shaw. I just think he’s a good enough footballer to have his shit together more often.
If that means I have an agenda against him, then so be it. As far as I can see it, the most obvious agendas come from people pretending he couldn’t possibly have played any better for us over the last couple of seasons.
It is insane that people want Pogba out of this team. He is not perfect but he is the best we got and we should not start selling our best players. We should be ruthless getting rid of players like Ashley young, Matic, Lingard (as a starting player) etc. Then, when we have replaced the absolutely dross we have, we cant start blaming Pogba and move him if we wish.
Come on Keffy, it says 'distance covered', not distanced covered per 90 minutes.
Pogba has made the most appearances 31(1) of any outfield player, is a midfielder and is seldom substituted. That's why he's covered the most distance. It doesn't mean he covers more ground per 90 minutes than any other player, which gives the most accurate reflection on work rate distance wise.
Matic is the midfielder with the next most appearances at 26. The other midfielders are so far behind on games started they're not worth mentioning.
That doesn't mean you have an agenda against him. Some people probably do have that going, but even sensible Pogba fans like myself gets attacked for having an agenda, just because I think he has disappointed us with his performances, and not reached his full potential with the stability needed at this level. Kinda nuts. I share the sentiments in your first paragraph as well.
I just saw a Riquelme video on YouTube and thought, in some ways, Pogba reminds me of him at times. Fair comparison?
I'd be down in the dumps playing for the our brainless club at the peak of my career, he must be worried sick his time is going to pass him by, but he needs to stay 100 %, there is no upside to him leaving from the fans side.
Only so much a single player can do.
He receives way ward s*it passes from our centre backs, turns and gets smashed up by opposition or turns and looks up and has no options with a static and unless front line, more often then not his only option is to pass it a few yards to Fred / Herrera / Matic.
He isn't the problem, our team is an absolute shambles in a tactical and technical sense. We've no identity in how we play what so ever and if he goes things won't magically be fixed by any means.
For me, I've always seen Pogba as a mirror image of Yaya in so many ways.
They are very much built the same physically, they have a very similar playing style, they run similarly and their returns / stats are actually similar.. With 3 games left to play to complete his third season at United, Pogba actually has better numbers than Yaya Toure did in a far, far, far better team at the same point in his career! Yaya was surrounded by the likes of Silva, Aguero, Dzeko, Nasri & Tevez!
Pogba looks up and he has who? Matic on his last legs, Lingard running around in circles, Rashford who makes an effort but has woeful finishing, Martial hugging the left side. Mata old and lacking pace... we are dreadful in comparison to City's teams even from 2010-13.
Yaya - 2010/11 - 2012/13
Goals - 18
Assists - 18
Total - 36
Pogba - 2016/17 - 2018/19
Goals - 24
Assists - 23
Total - 47
And just cause you like per 90 mins stats Pogue... Yaya had played 8,449 mins to Pogba's 7,569 mins.
Really, really is high time our fan base woke up and realized we've a VERY talented player on our hands and actually appreciated him. He's performing far, far better than Yaya was at the same point and Yaya is considered a premier league legend to many at this point.
Pogba
Hilariously selective use of stats (again).Only so much a single player can do.
He receives way ward s*it passes from our centre backs, turns and gets smashed up by opposition or turns and looks up and has no options with a static and unless front line, more often then not his only option is to pass it a few yards to Fred / Herrera / Matic.
He isn't the problem, our team is an absolute shambles in a tactical and technical sense. We've no identity in how we play what so ever and if he goes things won't magically be fixed by any means.
For me, I've always seen Pogba as a mirror image of Yaya in so many ways.
They are very much built the same physically, they have a very similar playing style, they run similarly and their returns / stats are actually similar.. With 3 games left to play to complete his third season at United, Pogba actually has better numbers than Yaya Toure did in a far, far, far better team at the same point in his career! Yaya was surrounded by the likes of Silva, Aguero, Dzeko, Nasri & Tevez!
Pogba looks up and he has who? Matic on his last legs, Lingard running around in circles, Rashford who makes an effort but has woeful finishing, Martial hugging the left side. Mata old and lacking pace... we are dreadful in comparison to City's teams even from 2010-13.
Yaya - 2010/11 - 2012/13
Goals - 18
Assists - 18
Total - 36
Pogba - 2016/17 - 2018/19
Goals - 24
Assists - 23
Total - 47
And just cause you like per 90 mins stats Pogue... Yaya had played 8,449 mins to Pogba's 7,569 mins.
Really, really is high time our fan base woke up and realized we've a VERY talented player on our hands and actually appreciated him. He's performing far, far better than Yaya was at the same point and Yaya is considered a premier league legend to many at this point.
Pogba
The season after the two seasons you’ve (randomly
) selected, Toure matched Pogba’s total goals tally for both those two seasons combined.And wiki has Pogba on 20 goals (not 24) for last two seasons combined. Selective and wrong.
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I Said... AT THE SAME POINT OF THEIR PLAYING CAREERS.... You know... 3 FULL Seasons!Hilariously selective use of stats (again).
The season after the two seasons you’ve (randomly
And wiki has Pogba on 20 goals (not 24) for last two seasons combined. Selective and wrong.
Yaya opening 3 seasons vs Pogba's opening 3 seasons! That isn't it selective...that is Like for Like!
Actually I take it back its actually unfair on Pogba who as you can clearly see has played A LOT less than Yaya had at the same point of their Premier League careers...You know...after 3 seasons!
Now do you understand why you have a blatant agenda against Pogba?
I've no idea either what your wiki comment is about... Pogba clearly has 24 Premier League goals on Wiki as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Pogba#Club
Transfermarkt also has him on 24 Premier League goals. Which is far more reliable than an editable site like wiki but none the less, both are reporting 24 goals.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/paul-...ein=985&liga=&wettbewerb=GB1&pos=&trainer_id=
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Ok. That’s my bad. Thought you were just looking at last two seasons vs two seasons from Toure. Of course the Toure as PL legend thing is mainly based on the following, 24 goal, season. It is good to see that Pogba’s looking good against him so far (in terms of goals and assists anyway). Let’s see if he has it in him to kick on like Toure did.
I'd say it's an agenda when he can't even bring himself to say he had a good game in games where, literally everyone else in the world, recognises he had a good game.
When you turn everything into a negative, for example Pogba has been MOTM on here 10 times this season. Nearly double anyone else. 1 in 4 games he's played he's been recognised as the best player on the pitch. When you see that as a negative then you have an agenda. When it's pointed out to you that DeGea only averaged MOTM 1 in 4/5 in seasons he was seen as carrying us and so you stop replying it's because you have an agenda.
When you turn the fact that as primarily a midfielder he has 30 goals/assists into negatives. You have an agenda.
When you fail to recognise anything good in him you have an agenda.
There are plenty of people with agendas on Pogba.
Your constantly looking for a negative....what a sad individual ffs
You don't need stats to tell you that Pogba jogs around 75% of the time he's on the pitch.
May have dreamt this but I read he spends the most time walking (of all midfielders).
I don't know how to embed images, but yes that's true. The stats are in this article, and taken from Sky Sports: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...WALKING-Premier-League-midfielder-season.html.
He's spent the most time walking of all central midfielders this season, and the second least time jogging, as a percentage of his total movement. No idea how this data is calculated, I think it might be just based on total minutes played, which explains why his total distance covered is quite decent despite how poorly he performs on the other walking/jogging/running/sprinting stats.
Pogba has done my head in at various times in his last 3 years, you can go back through his performance threads and see some of the stuff I said about him. His performance away to Southampton in particular this season was infuriating.
But as the season has gone on I've changed my mind, yes he can be annoying but I think far too much blame is placed on Pogba.
I'd much rather focus on the huge number of obviously substandard players we have than focusing everything on Pogba and how hard he works. Moving on the likes of Sanchez and Lukaku and Lingard and Mata and Matic and Young and Rojo etc, that's what we should be concentrating on.
But as the season has gone on I've changed my mind, yes he can be annoying but I think far too much blame is placed on Pogba.
I'd much rather focus on the huge number of obviously substandard players we have than focusing everything on Pogba and how hard he works. Moving on the likes of Sanchez and Lukaku and Lingard and Mata and Matic and Young and Rojo etc, that's what we should be concentrating on.
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22% of the time actually. 64% of the time he’s walking. A higher % than any other PL midfielder.
These stats are kind of hard to unbundle. His % jogging and “low speed running” are also unusually low. And the overall distance is pretty good, with sprints more or less on the median. So that’s good, right?
Doing less jogging & sprints than every single outfield player in the 2014 World Cup, Lionel Messi but made the Cup Final.
I actually wasn't aware of this until recently, Messi is statistically one of football laziest players. He spends extremely large portions of games stood still or walking around.
Before you reply with something along the lines of Messi being on another level, of course he is. He's arguably the greatest player ever. However your post here is about work rate, jogging v walking stats. Plenty of players fall into the lazy bracket description, from Cantona, Le Tissier, Yaya or even the greatest himself Messi. They can still be very good players ultimately.
Interesting article just below as well that gives good insight into how Messi plays.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/messi-walks-better-than-most-players-run/
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That’s the point though, I would gladly watch Pogba strolling around the pitch if he was winning matches for the team with goals, passes, tackles, blocks, crosses, runs etc but he doesn’t deliver these either. He’s a pretend player, looks great, occasionally does amazing things but ultimately useless.Doing less jogging & sprints than every single outfield player in the 2014 World Cup, Lionel Messi but made the Cup Final.
I actually wasn't aware of this until recently, Messi is statistically one of football laziest players. He spends extremely large portions of games stood still or walking around.
Before you reply with something along the lines of Messi being on another level, of course he is. He's arguably the greatest player ever. However your post here is about work rate, jogging v walking stats. Plenty of players fall into the lazy bracket description, from Cantona, Le Tissier, Yaya or even the greatest himself Messi. They can still be very good players ultimately.
Interesting article just below as well that gives good insight into how Messi plays.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/messi-walks-better-than-most-players-run/
He's won us 15 pts by my calculations in terms of goals this season. Personally I agree with McClair on his summary of him, I don't want to see Pogba in our own third tackling players and blocking shots, he's no use to us there. He's far better off in the final third scoring and setting up goals, as his numbers prove this.
Reality is, Pogba seems to have been asked to drop deeper in more recent weeks with Herrera out injured and having to make up for Matic's lack of mobility. In turn the goals have dried up, what a coincidence.
To summarize him as useless shows either a lack of knowledge in football or bitterness.
Not if posters/fans that keep hounding him out the club and blame him for everything that is happening to us. We mustn't forget these players are humans too. Very well payed humans, but humans nonetheless. And Pogba strikes me as a guy who needs the support of the fans behind him otherwise he loses confidence and doesn't feel appreciated and will ultimately leave. Yes the flamboyance and whatnot is attributed as confidence but i just think its a guy having fun with life.
Let's not kid ourselves Pogue, he is our best player by a long way and he is surrounded by complete and utter deadweight. There is only so much 1 single man can do (Not necessarily saying he is single handedly winning us games, but it is pretty clear to see everything positive in the team comes from him and when he doesn't produce, the team does absolutely nothing as the players around him are mid table quality. This exacerbates the problem and we have people blaming pogba for not "turning up" every single game. It just doesn't happen, there's not many players that turn up every single game and are expected to do everything from assisting, scoring etc)
I'm not saying you should change your opinion, all i'm saying is why don't we try and support our best player and get better players around him so we have a better team overall? Let's be honest if you or i were in his position we would be thinking "why the feck am i at this club where we are struggling for top 4 and i'm at the peak of my career and i'm probably one of the best midfielder in the world who could play at a club consistently challenging for trophies"
Really good post. For example if you put Cristiano as a winger doing defensive duties because your team isn't good enough to control the ball and push up then you'd get a much worse Ronaldo. We need to enable Pogba's best attributes (attacking midfielder play, creative passer) and play with a system that allows that to occur. We are currently playing on the counter so therefore asking Pogba to run back and defend, then run up 50 yards on the otherside of the pitch and create everything and then when he loses it, run back 50 yards and defend. Its just not humanely possible unless you are 3 Lungs Park.
I'm 100% confident if Pogba leaves and goes to Madrid and they start playing like the madrid of 3-4 years ago dominating 99% of teams, then Pogba will be scoring and assisting even more than he is now and we will have posters on here saying "Look, now he isnt lazy" but they just missed the whole context around why he was playing the way he is here.
Our system just isn't conducive to great players shining at the height of their powers.
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