Still good enough to be the star of a top 3 team in the world at the age of 22 or 23 and still good enough to be the leader of the NT that won the world cup a few months ago. He will be fine in Madrid in a coherent team, with good players etc. In fact, it's the perfect move for his image and legacy thst has taken a few knocks by signing here, playing 2 years and half out of position in a toxic environment.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Goals
- 16
- Assists
- 14
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Red cards
- 1
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Was pissed off with him against Barca but I actually did think he tried vs Everton and was way better than Fred and Pereira against City. Not the problem.
Wish he'd find a bit of space for a few of those long range efforts he used to have with Juve though
Wish he'd find a bit of space for a few of those long range efforts he used to have with Juve though
He will walk into klopp and pep team. pep has been impressed when pogba nearly single handedly dragged juventus to beating Bayern munich in the CL.
Many good players had improved under their coaching. It's a pure nonsense to suggest world class like pogba won't play in their cohesive teams.
Leader of the national team that won the world cup? Is that true? I didn't pay that much attention to it so I might have missed something but Pogba doesn't strike me as the leader type and he certainly isn't doing that here. I don't think Madrid will have a coherent team immediately if he goes there. Might be perfect if they make it work then every players image get a boost, like Pogba when he came here, but it is not with the certainty you claim.
Many players have improved under their coaching but I question if Pogba would be able to translate as well as some of these players. That is not to knock his talent, but merely questioning his ability to adapt. It is never nonsense to suggest or ask the question I did, especially when you know very well you don't own the answer to that question yourself. A team is cohesive only when its parts works very well together, I'm questioning his adaptation to a role in such a scenario where he has to put himself in front of the team. I think he has proved more for the national team honestly on that part, from what I've seen, but it is a small sample size. I agree Pogba is talented and United aren't perfect for him right now, but I also think it is too easy to just go "United suck, Pogba's talent is world class. That must mean he is too good for us and perform badly because of the team, rather than him facing any responsibility when asked why the team performs badly. It is a team game and it has been enough of a sample size during his time at United for any fan to legitimately ask questions and not being fully convinced about him. I obviously hope he stays and performs to the best of his ability, but I have my doubts he'll be able to do that and if he is moved on he might do well, and he might not. Same question applies to both scenarios for me when rating the player.
And that would be a mistake. We need to spend all the money we can to build a better team around him, not without him. He is so much better than our other players that it's not even funny. And yet he's getting blamed for that we can't put real footballers alongside him.
Were you expecting him to turn from midfield, beat his man, dribble past 3 players and then shoot it top corner from outside the box? What i've described is Messi, Not Pogba. Because that is the only option he could do today with the lack of a system, terrible players around him, no one offering any passing options, no one trying to play as a team. And he isn't Messi so he can't do everything ive stated above, so he looks average and clumsy in the average man's eyes who evidently does not know how to look at the bigger systemic issues at play
Oh god. Explain how big systematic issue look at play, if you will. Also if you can add in what makes Pogba both nonfunctional and central at the same time in a failing team. World class talent yes but performing badly in a failing team, so lets be honest here. He is not performing good and it is not just everybody else's fault.
I will never understand how he is the one being singled out by 'fans'. He's the only outfield player creating anything, making decent passes, beating a man and looking like a world class footballer. He's also putting in the miles if you look at the stats.
People question his motivation - if I were as good as he is, and I spent all match coming back, picking up the ball, looking up and seeing Lingard hiding behind someone, Chris 'where possession goes to die' Smalling and Ashely f*cking Young as my main options I'd be questioning my life decisions too.
He's responsible for about a third of our goals this season. And people want him to leave? Not Lingard - a forward who doesn't score or create goals? Or Martial, a winger who doesn't run? Or Lukaku, a brick-wall to bounce possession off of?
You're all crazy. Wherever he goes he'll be in the top 10 players in that league. And we'll be left with 0 of the top 10 players in our league.
If we could get him even 1 or 2 more to play with, maybe he'd look better. Just a thought.
People question his motivation - if I were as good as he is, and I spent all match coming back, picking up the ball, looking up and seeing Lingard hiding behind someone, Chris 'where possession goes to die' Smalling and Ashely f*cking Young as my main options I'd be questioning my life decisions too.
He's responsible for about a third of our goals this season. And people want him to leave? Not Lingard - a forward who doesn't score or create goals? Or Martial, a winger who doesn't run? Or Lukaku, a brick-wall to bounce possession off of?
You're all crazy. Wherever he goes he'll be in the top 10 players in that league. And we'll be left with 0 of the top 10 players in our league.
If we could get him even 1 or 2 more to play with, maybe he'd look better. Just a thought.
This. We should be using him to attract other good players, but instead we're going into next season most likely without a single world class outfield player. Its really something else. He'll be missed even by his harshest critics
The response to this performance is so confusing. This was finally a performance in a big game so wretched it was worthy of putting down a marker and being able to say; "Right, individually he was as crap as I think I've ever seen him and he's got no excuses tonight" yet here we are playing excuse bingo again. Why? His form over the last month has been diabolical and fair enough a few of these performances there was at least something tangible to go off to try and defend him the team has been crap, the weather was crap, the planets were out of alignment. He had an absolute mare in this game, how is it even up for question.
Why are people acting like asking genuine questions about his game and wanting to discuss the obvious negative side of it is somehow some personal blight on their fandom of the club and it's players? Can you fecking grow up and stop derailing the thread with personally abusive nonsense for people that don't want to adapt the same blind sychophancy?
I mean, is this creativity? What even the feck is this? He doesn't even have his head up at all, in our own half just dribbles down the touchline going nowhere and loses the ball. WHY IS HE ON THE feckING TOUCHLINE. Letalone shamelessly just dribbling it out half assed into a double team and then just losing the ball "ah well feck it".
It is beyond head scratchingly bad now. I can understand if the club want to rebuild with him next season, it will take a proper rebuild. Pulling the trigger on restructuring the forward line and major surgery on the defensive and defensive midfield platfrom that will allow him to play up front behind the striker with no off ball responsibilities. But fecks sake can we stop acting like just because he's a great player that if he plays bad the answer to understanding why he played bad isn't "but hes a good player". It's beyond tedious now.
Why are people acting like asking genuine questions about his game and wanting to discuss the obvious negative side of it is somehow some personal blight on their fandom of the club and it's players? Can you fecking grow up and stop derailing the thread with personally abusive nonsense for people that don't want to adapt the same blind sychophancy?
I mean, is this creativity? What even the feck is this? He doesn't even have his head up at all, in our own half just dribbles down the touchline going nowhere and loses the ball. WHY IS HE ON THE feckING TOUCHLINE. Letalone shamelessly just dribbling it out half assed into a double team and then just losing the ball "ah well feck it".
It is beyond head scratchingly bad now. I can understand if the club want to rebuild with him next season, it will take a proper rebuild. Pulling the trigger on restructuring the forward line and major surgery on the defensive and defensive midfield platfrom that will allow him to play up front behind the striker with no off ball responsibilities. But fecks sake can we stop acting like just because he's a great player that if he plays bad the answer to understanding why he played bad isn't "but hes a good player". It's beyond tedious now.
Embarrassing how so many are defending Pogba and claiming he was our best player tonight. I was at the game and kept a close eye on him all game.
Apart from a great ball into the box for Lingard in the first half, he was really poor.
Slow on the ball, stray balls played, losing possession and 'pretending to run' again! Seriously, what do you Pogba-lovers watch?
Apart from a great ball into the box for Lingard in the first half, he was really poor.
Slow on the ball, stray balls played, losing possession and 'pretending to run' again! Seriously, what do you Pogba-lovers watch?
I think people already have decided what they think of Pogba, and then proceed to watch matches based on their preconceptions. The anti-Pogbas focus on the negatives in match and dismiss the positive stuff he does, and vice versa. This then creates a weird performance thread where from the reactions it seems like he's shite and world class all in the same game.
Personally, I think that Pogba has performed very well thus far, but definitely has another gear in him that can only be consistently shown when we as a team (and club) better ourselves. However, he has sporadically shown this 'other level' at certain times throughout his tenure at the club, but as I said, inconsistently. This sneak peak probably earns him more ire as people feel like he should be performing that way consistently, and is not doing so because he 'doesn't care' etc.
Also, as can be seen with Modric winning the Balon D'or, a narrative can really be powerful in assessing and discussing a player. Mourinho says he's a virus and all of a sudden all the good things he did before Solskjaer are glossed over and the media consensus becomes 'he's been underwhelming all season'. Some fans who watch and read the media then fall for this and start to believe he's done nothing all season when he's actually been our best player. This adds to the difficulty in discussing him.
The one thing I think is fact is that he is the least of our problems right now, at least given the transfer rumours surrounding him are false.
Personally, I think that Pogba has performed very well thus far, but definitely has another gear in him that can only be consistently shown when we as a team (and club) better ourselves. However, he has sporadically shown this 'other level' at certain times throughout his tenure at the club, but as I said, inconsistently. This sneak peak probably earns him more ire as people feel like he should be performing that way consistently, and is not doing so because he 'doesn't care' etc.
Also, as can be seen with Modric winning the Balon D'or, a narrative can really be powerful in assessing and discussing a player. Mourinho says he's a virus and all of a sudden all the good things he did before Solskjaer are glossed over and the media consensus becomes 'he's been underwhelming all season'. Some fans who watch and read the media then fall for this and start to believe he's done nothing all season when he's actually been our best player. This adds to the difficulty in discussing him.
The one thing I think is fact is that he is the least of our problems right now, at least given the transfer rumours surrounding him are false.
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Amazing isn't it. I'm normally one to defend him as his criticism can be as or more ridiculous than the excuses made for him. But there is no defending his performance today. Never mind in a derby match where we were looking to come back with a reaction and show some bottle.
At one point in the second half after we won the ball in our own box he took yet another needless extra touch in what should have been a break with four options around him and gave the ball straight back to City.
He was horrendous.
Our only class player. Can understand he wants away when they put players like Fred alongside him.
Keep him and improve the rest of the team.
Wasting his prime years here. Will regret later in his career if he stayed.
It's a miracle if we keep him. He has already left once so the thought won't be so troubling to him, and he's definitely not getting what he wants at the club. He thought he could come back under Mourinho and be part of a great revival for United, making him a legend. Instead he has to work with the most lackluster and unenthusiastic squad he has ever been part of as an adult player, spending his best years winning nothing and pinning his name to a historically awful United side. While his own performances can also be lacking, everyone with any sense knows that he's better than what we're seeing out there. One man can't carry a whole team in this day and age, the overall quality has grown too high.
He could go just about anywhere he wants and have an objectively better career for it. I'd love to keep him, but I reckon the best we can hope for is that he stays until the last year of his contract and moves on while we can still get money for him. Even that would be a surprise. He'll have offers from Real Madrid and Juventus at the least, and as much as I love Solskjær, it's not hard to see who players would prefer between him and Zidane.
Can't really blame him, when you think about it. He has the potential to be the best midfielder in the world but is stuck at a club where nothing works. It hinders your growth as a player to play on a team where everything goes wrong all the time. Imagine if he decides to stick with United and we flounder for another five years. He'll have spent his career winning nothing at club level but a handful of relatively unremarkable Serie A titles and a few domestic cups. For all players currently at United, the thought of staying for the rest of their careers comes with a considerable likelihood of never winning anything again. We could easily have six more years of rebuilding and recovery on our hands--English football is practically defined by its rise and fall of big clubs.
He could go just about anywhere he wants and have an objectively better career for it. I'd love to keep him, but I reckon the best we can hope for is that he stays until the last year of his contract and moves on while we can still get money for him. Even that would be a surprise. He'll have offers from Real Madrid and Juventus at the least, and as much as I love Solskjær, it's not hard to see who players would prefer between him and Zidane.
Can't really blame him, when you think about it. He has the potential to be the best midfielder in the world but is stuck at a club where nothing works. It hinders your growth as a player to play on a team where everything goes wrong all the time. Imagine if he decides to stick with United and we flounder for another five years. He'll have spent his career winning nothing at club level but a handful of relatively unremarkable Serie A titles and a few domestic cups. For all players currently at United, the thought of staying for the rest of their careers comes with a considerable likelihood of never winning anything again. We could easily have six more years of rebuilding and recovery on our hands--English football is practically defined by its rise and fall of big clubs.
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Before anyone says he's been scapegoated look back and consider that his last good performance was away to Fulham 9 or 10 games back.
Can’t help but think he sees us going nowhere under Ole and with how the club is run and wants out.
He will be gone in the summer.
No scapegoat, or hard feeling for him. I think Gary Neville yesterday said that his mind is not in Manchester and he wants to leave. Actually it’s pretty since Jan 2018 (the Newcastle bench etc) that he wanted to be off.
So what’s the point in a player being there for 3 years and who wants to leave since half of his spell ?
Let him leave. He was missing at Arsenal, against Paris, against Barcelona, against Everton, now against City and will probably be sh*t against Chelsea on Sunday.
It’s not the fact that the guy is too good for us, I don’t think so. It’s just that, like Neville said, his head was turned by Real Madrid and Raiola and the guy wants to be out this summer.
Other team lost player, we should compare him with Coutinho at Pool. An important player for them, but not decisive.
Just take that bloody money, reinvest well and merci et au revoir.
Invest 70M on Ruben Neves, 50M on Declan Rice and 50/60M in Tanguy Ndombele then you will get a better midfield trio than the current Pogba/Matic/Herrera.
So what’s the point in a player being there for 3 years and who wants to leave since half of his spell ?
Let him leave. He was missing at Arsenal, against Paris, against Barcelona, against Everton, now against City and will probably be sh*t against Chelsea on Sunday.
It’s not the fact that the guy is too good for us, I don’t think so. It’s just that, like Neville said, his head was turned by Real Madrid and Raiola and the guy wants to be out this summer.
Other team lost player, we should compare him with Coutinho at Pool. An important player for them, but not decisive.
Just take that bloody money, reinvest well and merci et au revoir.
Invest 70M on Ruben Neves, 50M on Declan Rice and 50/60M in Tanguy Ndombele then you will get a better midfield trio than the current Pogba/Matic/Herrera.
Those prices are way too low. Specially considering how United gets fleeced every summer and since transfer go crazier every summer.
Probably because the pros play against him and the pundits don't? Just a guess.
Pogba is showing for the ball to help out the defence. He's standing up and not hiding like the rest.
May I ask you what Pereira and Lingard are doing at that precise moment? City have boxed Pogba in with their pressing which is clearly high quality, but at that point he either passes backwards or tries to move the ball forward and look for help. Just look how far away Pereira is - just standing there ball watching and not even attempting to come and help. Same with Lingard, standing there watching. Only Rashford attempts to move towards him and give him a pass, but by then he's already closed down and can't get it away.
We need to do 2 things to help improve these situations.
1. Move the ball out of defence much faster. Our defence hesitate and take way to long to pass into midfield, this in turn makes us get pressed and our midfield has no room. We either then have to take a risk and play out, or lump it
2. Our attack needs to be more helpful to the build up of play. So often they just stand up top waiting for the ball instead of moving into space.
Unfortunately though until we get proper defenders who can pass + coach how to build out from the back without panicking, we won’t get much further.
The fact that you try to blame this situation on others pretty much explains your love for him and that there's no point discussing with Pogba's fans here.
He should have played Perreira just like every world class midfielder(or any half decent midfielder who puts teams play ahead of his own fame first) in the world would do and not opt for a blind alley. Do you think any other midfielder in the world would go for a dribble there instead of a simple pass?
No, I'm just realistic and not seeing it through hateful eyes.
Have you ever actually played football before? I doubt he could hardly see Pereira through the bodies, let alone play a "simple pass". A simple pass is also not 15 yards away going through 3 city bodies first. Do you think he ignored the "easy pass" and just wanted to try and dribble passed 3 city players? come on...
Things like this happen against a good team in a match, but people over analyse every single touch/move and then call it a "BAD" performance. It's crazy.
Swap Pogba for Gundogan and it would have been the exact same story last night.
Every pro players plays against him twice per season and some likely don't follow him enough outside of that to know how inconsistent he is.
Pogba is our best player. He tries every single time. He is world-class but cannot win on his own, even Messi at Barcelona or Ronaldo at Real/Juve are surrounded by some of the best players in the world.
Pogba came back to our club only because he loves the club. If we push him out of the club, to allow him to leave we would be doing ourselves a massive disservice because it will break our belief in our club.
No more money to our beloved Manchester United till Glazers out!!!
Pogba came back to our club only because he loves the club. If we push him out of the club, to allow him to leave we would be doing ourselves a massive disservice because it will break our belief in our club.
No more money to our beloved Manchester United till Glazers out!!!
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When fit, City have got D. Silva, B. Silva, and KDB for the two creative midfield positions. As talented as he is, he's not walking into the team ahead of any of those 3.
In that clip he could of passed it to Shaw or Perriera,Perriera to Fred, Fred to number 15, or out to the right wing to the right back, or Fred to Rasford, taking out three Man city players on the right wing.
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Wow....how anyone can look at that clip and not see the failings of our team is beyond me. This clip is not about an individual. It glaringly highlights the biggest issue at our club and why any individual will struggle in this current side.
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Contributes feck all, this lad.
He's hot and cold but anyone doubting his contribution in terms of goals/assists is just a moron IMO.
Sure, you can ask why players over 30 yards away aren't busting a gut to break formation because a player can't play a simple 7 yard first time pass inside. My answer would be are they thinking the same as I am "watch this guy turn and dribble into two guys and lose it, you know what he isn't even looking up at the play so I'll stay right here because when he loses it they will break and we'll be in the shit, I need to cover because that is my job". Where have I seen this little touchline fiasco before? Oh right, here:
Will you look at that, loitering around on the touchline and not offering and fecking coming inside like he needs to be doing more of.
There is one glaring thing that he can do to help improve these situations:
Don't dither about on the touchline in no mans land where we've got two anecdotal pieces of evidence that there is literally zero point in Pogba being face up with the touchline because his inability to accept a pass, move it on and come inside to open up play is negligible. Just don't do it. Stay as far away from the touchline as you possibly can because you're worth far more to this team in the middle of the pitch dictating play.
Pass the ball. Move to a spot and demand it back. Pass the ball again, move to a spot and demand it back. It is not difficult, before we buy loads of other players to do things to help there are still glaring weaknesses to Pogba's game. It isn't just City and Barcelona over two legs. He had three mares against Wolves in exactly the same fashion by being dominated by faster, hungrier and smaller players who knew exactly how to get at him. With little to no reaction or change in his match day attitude at all.
He's a one hundred million pound footballer. We've got fans defending these absolutely rancid individual performances citing things like racism, other players not being good enough, the old trafford roof leaking, brexit. If anyone should have some fecking balls to just say "feck you all I'm doing what I'm best at and owning a football pitch and dominating a game because I'm Paul Pogba" then I'd like to see him stand up and do it every now and then so I can say "you know what, today was an off day. He did lose the ball a lot, but by shit he's the best we got and he worked his sack over every blade of that grass and I'm proud of him, we all have bad days".
A lawn has to fecking grow before you mow it, otherwise you're just mowing the same patch of dirt "yeah he has two feet and the went left right left right all over a football pitch tonight he's clearly the best and taking steps on a football field, therefore our best player" over and over again and there is no credibility to be able to point to what we need to utilize and what we need to improve.
He's a top class player. He needs to be judged by that standard when we're playing the best.
He's supposed to be one of the worlds top players, he was pathetic again. He offered nothing going forward and once again strolled around the pitch when required to track back. He's supposed to lead by example given his profile and its very obvious he doesn't.
He gets more criticism than anyone else because of his talent but mainly his lack of effort. I've defended him but he's shown what he's really about in the last month or so, how can we keep a player like that.
All I will say is put KDB or whoever you think is a class midfielder in for him and they do no better because we are simply crap.
There is nothing to create with only two men ahead of you. How can you not see this. Our players are of the lowest quality mate.
One thing thats starting to annoy me is people saying that for Pogba to come good he just needs world class players surrounding him, hes doing good work and the players around him are letting him down....Really!? This is a lad is supposed to be our World Class player.
I think it was Roy Keane said it last night on sky, hit the nail on the head - Proper world class players raise the game of others around them and raise the game of the team as a whole. Not needing others to do work to make them look good.
I think it was Roy Keane said it last night on sky, hit the nail on the head - Proper world class players raise the game of others around them and raise the game of the team as a whole. Not needing others to do work to make them look good.
i know it's partly down to different systems but how come a player like Frenkie de Jong seemingly is capable of this then?
Because you hold onto the ball for much longer periods. You don't squander possession straight away and then have to chase the opposition for ages. It tires you out, Neville himself admitted that.
It's highly unlikely that he does it every time and they don't have the same built, De Jong is meant to be more mobile.
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