Carl
has permanently erect nipples
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2008
- Messages
- 45,494
Wut?Why does everyone think Theon died ?
Wut?Why does everyone think Theon died ?
did the dragons survive? think Drogon managed to escape shaking off the wights
Kind of his deal now. His lack of humanity.Yeah Bran is a bit of a dick, isn't he? "Thanks for standing here all night with me, now go along and run headlong into that supernatural being over there."
He's the worst military commander ever.Jon Snows "Every man counts" speeches seem a little daft now after that expert should of military command.
She was. I love Arya. Been my favourite character throughout the show and she kicked ass in this.Also have to say, seen some people saying (prior to this episode) Maisie Williams is a bit overrated now but I honestly thought she was great in that episode.
No fecks given. Heck he told Meera Reed to feck off after she dragged his ass for a few episodes and her brother died for him. At least he thanked Theon, that's progress I suppose.Yeah Bran is a bit of a dick, isn't he? "Thanks for standing here all night with me, now go along and run headlong into that supernatural being over there."
Also the dagger that bran gave to arya in the exact spot that the NK gets killed.Which is somehow super deep and meaningful and forshadowing... but actually no.
And one of the best character development arcs.Theon has been one of the major characters right back since the start of season one. How the feck is he not major character? He's had more screen time than most.
Up there with the best actors/performers in the show too. Big death for sure.Theon has been one of the major characters right back since the start of season one. How the feck is he not major character? He's had more screen time than most.
That was fecking brutal. "Thanks for dragging me half way across the world, but you can go now. Don't let the door hit you on the way out"No fecks given. Heck he told Meera Reed to feck off after she dragged his ass for a few episodes and her brother died for him. At least he thanked Theon, that's progress I suppose.
Yea, we've been hearing this winter is coming shite for years and then one good battle and hes defeated.He's like the Tottenham of GoT. Such promising signs, only to feck up at the first real hurdle
Plus it would've been a fitting end for characters like Jaime & Brienne to take out WW's as there farewells.It wasnt just the Night Kings power though, it was all the white walkers. As demonstrated when the Expedition rode North and killed the White Walker. This implies that they could have thinned out the ranks of White Walkers to reduce the herd first before taking on the Night King himself. But the writers avoided the slow answer and went for the fast "kill the Night King" route instead.
Haha, i get your point, but realistically this should be impossible to defeat her right now, shouldn't it? To me it looked like at least 90% of the whole northern and Danys army was wiped today. All Dotrahki, most insullied and probably most northmen too. Also they (probably?) lost another Dragon while Cersei seems to have a decent army right now.Having the Night King killed off in his first battle south of the wall after 8 series of building to the point was very anti climatic. I did like that Arya did it though.
Still feels like their needed to be more to it, and the fact they now have to go south and defeat Cersi, feels a bit like if in Harry Potter, Voldemort had got defeat half way through the last book and they had to go off and defeat Malfoy.
By at worst I mean that they are defiantly not tier three.They're definitely tier 2, not at worst. Didn't the WW have more than 1 giant ? Judging from how season 7 ended I mean.
Especially after fat Sam was able to hold about 50 of them off lying on his arse.
Is Gilly still alive? Hope not. I was sure she died and even allowed myself a Tiger Tim first pump in celebration when she seemed to die.
That said, you really have to suspend your disbelief with GoT and remember ‘tits + dragons’.
Being a King is different to being a tactician. That's what his hand will be for (whoever it ends up being). His qualities make him perfect to be King. Just, fair, selfless, honorable, loved, impressionable, etc.He's the worst military commander ever.
In the Battle of the Bastards he charged head on because he got overly emotional, playing right in to Ramsay's hands and getting his army slaughtered. In this one he allowed the dothraki cavalry (a large bulk of their forces?) to be annihilated in about 10 seconds because they charged with zero support, and then spent the rest of the episode trying (and failing) to be a hero.
He doesn't command, he's just a great warrior. People keep talking about him as a King or a leader when really he's just very good with a sword and a honourable bloke. He's led two battles and his army has been destroyed in both, and he's only 'won' because Sansa and Arya came up with the clutch.
The Dothraki should have been forced to fight on foot and clearly instructed that cavalry charges will not be effective against this kind of enemy, Jon should have known that. That would have been 40 thousand more men (some of the finest warriors they have to boot) holding the line rather than thrown away at the start.
I hope someone calls him out for all of it. Doubt it though.
I said precisely the same. If he was the one responsible for that 'plan' then it was utter dogshit. Why even attack at night anyway? (I know budget reasons), why not at least give the Dothraki some Dragon support when they charge in? How about the Dragons put some fire down on the field first so it gives everyone a little advanced warning of the shit storm to come? There wasn't even many people firing arrows, when all the undead stood still at the trench I don't think I saw any get shot! I mean wtf are they actually doing.The Dothraki should have been forced to fight on foot and clearly instructed that cavalry charges will not be effective against this kind of enemy, Jon should have known that. That would have been 40 thousand more men (some of the finest warriors they have to boot) holding the line rather than thrown away at the start.
I hope someone calls him out for all of it. Doubt it though.
Yup Jon is a good fighter but he's vastly inferior to Robb or Jaime or someone in commanding battle.He's the worst military commander ever.
In the Battle of the Bastards he charged head on because he got overly emotional, playing right in to Ramsay's hands and getting his army slaughtered. In this one he allowed the dothraki cavalry (a large bulk of their forces?) to be annihilated in about 10 seconds because they charged with zero support, and then spent the rest of the episode trying (and failing) to be a hero.
He doesn't command, he's just a great warrior. People keep talking about him as a King or a leader when really he's just very good with a sword and a honourable bloke. He's led two battles and his army has been destroyed in both, and he's only 'won' because Sansa and Arya came up with the clutch.
The Dothraki should have been forced to fight on foot and clearly instructed that cavalry charges will not be effective against this kind of enemy, Jon should have known that. That would have been 40 thousand more men (some of the finest warriors they have to boot) holding the line rather than thrown away at the start.
I hope someone calls him out for all of it. Doubt it though.
This. They'd basically won the war at that point.Imagine the scene, Manchester United v Liverpool on the final day of next season. They're both tied on points at the top of the table, the game is 0-0 and the 89th minute Man United get a penalty and Rashford is taking his run up. At that moment, how many stewards are doing their job and how many are taking a sneaky look at the game.
The Night King was just about to kill his mortal enemy after 100s of years of trying. Of course his boys were watching that rather than keeping an eye on the fire exits for tiny girl ninjas.
I got all excited when it looked like Sam was being eaten.
Genuinely laughed out loud when Jon took one look at him about to be mauled to death and then just fecked off.
I had a similar reaction when Lyanna Mormont died. Her 'I'm a very angry little girl who IS JUST AS CAPABLE AS YOU' act got boring real quickly.
like feck off love you're about 3 feet tall a zombie squirrel could have taken you out.
It's not really a heartbreaking got style death in the sense of Ned or Robb or Oberyn or whatever. His only natural next development was dying a hero.Theon has been one of the major characters right back since the start of season one. How the feck is he not major character? He's had more screen time than most.
https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-winterfell-battle-tactical-analysis/Yeah. You have a horde of unarmored light cavalry. You dont just send them in a massive headlong charge into the unknown enemy. Especially when that enemy can then just resurrect them all.
Also, whatever happened to the idea of defending the walls? Why the feck are the Unsullied all sitting outside the castle? How about defending the chokepoints and walls?
Also, why the feck were the catapults/artillery in front of the bloody soldiers?!
These are just absolute basics of any sort of battle strategy. Battle of the Somme stuff right there.
Redemption arc.Why does everyone think Theon died ?
He's constantly in charge of battles though, which is a problem. You get the feeling he's going to want to continue to be in charge of battles as well.Being a King is different to being a tactician. That's what his hand will be for (whoever it ends up being). His qualities make him perfect to be King. Just, fair, selfless, honorable, loved, impressionable, etc.
Like Man United, they started to press early but quickly ran out of gas
That part amused me, not only did the wights didn't get shot but no one seemed to be ready on the walls before they breached, wtf were they doing between the moment the trenches got lit and the wights started opening breaches ?I said precisely the same. If he was the one responsible for that 'plan' then it was utter dogshit. Why even attack at night anyway? (I know budget reasons), why not at least give the Dothraki some Dragon support when they charge in? How about the Dragons put some fire down on the field first so it gives everyone a little advanced warning of the shit storm to come? There wasn't even many people firing arrows, when all the undead stood still at the trench I don't think I saw any get shot! I mean wtf are they actually doing.
I get that they didn't have much time to prepare and they thought that they'd be defending the Wall rather than Winterfell. But surely they could have come up with a slightly better plan. Jon saw what happened at Hardhome, so why the feck would he greenlight a suicidal charge of 40,000 (or however many were left) of their best warriors? It did provide an awesome cinematic with the flaming swords going out and it also meant that no Dothraki was needed which for budget reasons was probably ideal and that is why GoT story telling is pretty shit nowadays. Cool cinematics take priority over common sense.
Nah, I pointed out to someone a few pages back that last season we were shown footage of the army and there were several giants walking, at least 4. That doesn't overly matter though what with cost restrictions they couldn't do everything, I guess we just have to believe the other giants were attacking different parts of the castle.By at worst I mean that they are defiantly not tier three.
Someone said that they said in an earlier episode that there were only two giants left and we know how the one died. He would have been burnt.
I think you may be right there, sounds like a great story line if so.I believe Martin has a different intention for the Night King that is not so black and white.
I believe in the books, the Night King will be inextricably connected to Bran/Three Eyed Raven in a deeper way than depicted in the show. They are either two halves of the same whole, some type of duality or literally the same type of non-linear magic entity. I don't think the Night King was drawing his sword to kill Bran, at least not in the books he won't be. Its possible he was drawing his sword to swear fealty. Maybe Bran is, in a multiple personality way that is hinted at in the show, actually the real Night King.
The Hodor/Hold the Door aspect that delves into a non-linear time thing I think has something to do with this. I think the show took the easy out because they couldn't deal with the complexities as well as Martin hadn't fully finalized his plans here (he also gave an interview where he said he intentionally changed things in Winds of Winter book to continue going in different direction than the show which got an earlier outline of his intended ending). So since the show didn't develop this more grey telling of the NK, I think that is one area martin will get into in the books more - the Night King - Three Eyed Raven connection to the Children of the Forest and whole question of why this Long Night is even a thing.
I think in the books, to kill the Night King, they will have to kill Bran.
He spent 90% of the episode challenging people to a staring contest.Also after waiting a thousand years to finally kill his mortal enemy, couldnt the night king wait another hour for his minions to kill everyone before walking in like a tit.
Absolutely, just chill at the back and wait till literally all humans are dead. Easy win.if I was the ice king I would simply avoid situations where i could be stabbed
He’s only in charge of battles because he has been thrust into that role. He doesn’t actively seek conflict albeit when he’s put in a pressure situation where his loved ones are at risk he goes for the jugular brainlessly as is befitting of his stark lineage and well the Targaeyran side doesn’t lend itself to ice cold tactical thinking either.He's constantly in charge of battles though, which is a problem. You get the feeling he's going to want to continue to be in charge of battles as well.
Redemption arc.
In a few years all of us will remember this as a true masterpiece of TV. I already do.I had so much emotion in 1 minute of TV. First apprehension. Then Mel lit the swords and I was hell yeah. It was glorious watching them ride into battle then soul destroying watching the lights go out and one or two ride back. It was brilliant TV.