NinjaFletch
Full Member
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- Sep 30, 2009
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- 19,818
So shit even his own brother can't work with him
Worth a watchBearing in mind the median age of the UK population just moved past 40 (and will continue moving upwards in the future) then the Tories will be getting a shit-load of votes for the forseeable future.
Tension between family and national interestJo Johnson has quit
I guess the only other possible outcome is a government of national unity being formed if johnson looses a confidence vote (which seems pretty certain he would now)I'm not sure what the answer here is as a general election, despite the fact it may not give any winner power in parliament, seems the only option to mix things back up.
Either we continue with this stalemate and allow more and more time to pass or we declare an election and effectively vote in the party we feel will deliver what we want however I can't see how this can be the Conservatives as they have already failed to agree amongst themselves so there would be no sense in re-electing a Johnson led party back into power.
That leaves us with the Labour party and another Brexit referendum (and also being stuck with Corbyn as PM), or the Lib Dems (who want to pull the plug on Brexit and have a brand new leader).
Not called the Nasty party for nothing.Tension between family and national interest
One can say about tories what one likes, but they are impressive backstabbers.
Tin foil helmet time I know, but I really believe that will be a factor that tips the EU to agreeing to an extension, and my god it would make me happy!If the EU grant extension I hope it stretches past the point where all these cnuts have to declare all of their dirty money sources. That would be sweet sweet nectar
I don't think that's tin foil hat at all. Boris and his ilk have constantly offended not just the EU but it's key figures if they can achieve their goals whilst also sticking it to them then I'm sure they will. It sends a message to the right in other countries too.Tin foil helmet time I know, but I really believe that will be a factor that tips the EU to agreeing to an extension, and my god it would make me happy!
Do you know what I am looking forward to.So shit even his own brother can't work with him
And then what happens - it's just kicking the can down the road a little and that's assuming the EU allow an extension - it must be obvious by now to them that the UK parliament will never agree on any withdrawal agreement. If they allowed an extension to end January, they'd still be in the same state as they are now.You can make it far far less likely by not letting Boris call a snap election until the Benn bill passes and gets Royal assent.
It would be divine, its about time that people like mogg johnson and farage faced the consequences of their selfishness and treachery. Mogg is not just a selfish prick, he is actually evil, he is prepared to put peoples lives at risk for the sake of filling his already overflowing coffers, the clown is literally a fluffy white cat and volcano lair away from being a bond villain.I don't think that's tin foil hat at all. Boris and his ilk have constantly offended not just the EU but it's key figures if they can achieve their goals whilst also sticking it to them then I'm sure they will. It sends a message to the right in other countries too.
Yes but seems to get more ridiculous by the day.So, basically a circus.
Maybe but lurching out in October would end any chance of a better outcome. A new referendum and staying in the EU is still possible even if unlikely.And then what happens - it's just kicking the can down the road a little and that's assuming the EU allow an extension - it must be obvious by now to them that the UK parliament will never agree on any withdrawal agreement. If they allowed an extension to end January, they'd still be in the same state as they are now.
Say there was an election after Oct 31st - If Johnson wins, which is likely - he'll go no deal if Corbyn wins he'll try to negotiate his fantasy island deal and the Uk will be back to 2016 but the threat of no deal will still be there because parliament still won't agree a withdrawal agreement. It just goes on until the EU just run out of patience.
It would be glorious!I don't think that's tin foil hat at all. Boris and his ilk have constantly offended not just the EU but it's key figures if they can achieve their goals whilst also sticking it to them then I'm sure they will. It sends a message to the right in other countries too.
Because they somehow have the reputation of being the party of fiscal responsibility. Which is why the last 9 years of Tory rule have been nothing but sunshine and roses.But why? Why does anyone still vote for the Tories in the UK?
depending how you ask the question perhaps not so unlikelyMaybe but lurching out in October would end any chance of a better outcome. A new referendum and staying in the EU is still possible even if unlikely.
Yes it could delay things and hope that people come to their senses, seems a very slim possibility but when there's still hope...Maybe but lurching out in October would end any chance of a better outcome. A new referendum and staying in the EU is still possible even if unlikely.
The first time an MP has quit to spend less time with their familyEven his own brother thinks he's a cnut
it explicitly and deliberately leaves it on the table... it only caveats that if there is no alternative deal presented by the PM for the HOC to vote on then the HOC will vote on no deal and if they reject that then the PM has to request an extension.Yes it could delay things and hope that people come to their senses, seems a very slim possibility but when there's still hope...
But my point was that if people are saying this bill takes no deal off the table, it is simply not true.
Yes but even if Johnson complied and the EU did grant an extension until 31st January. If today was the 1st February what happens now?it explicitly and deliberately leaves it on the table... it only caveats that if there is no alternative deal presented by the PM for the HOC to vote on then the HOC will vote on no deal and if they reject that then the PM has to request an extension.
I do wonder though whats actually to stop him just refusing to do that on the 19th?
I would guess legal action would be taken but I suspect its not a five minute job to simply strip him of being the PM, agree and appoint somebody else, get them sworn in and then get them to go over?
I believe labour were getting legal advice today about how watertight (or not) the bill will be on the PM - I suspect the PM is getting similar advice in order to see if he can wiggle out of it
I am not so sure that a second referendum is unlikely.Maybe but lurching out in October would end any chance of a better outcome. A new referendum and staying in the EU is still possible even if unlikely.
You can't totally take no deal off the table.Yes it could delay things and hope that people come to their senses, seems a very slim possibility but when there's still hope...
But my point was that if people are saying this bill takes no deal off the table, it is simply not true.
Q1 leave or revoke A50depending how you ask the question perhaps not so unlikely
perhaps a little extreme of an example but 1 or 2 questions? 2 or more options? transferable vote or not? - I think a 2nd referendum is going to take a lot of time (and lawyers) to agree a final question (which both sides will still say is unfair to them) - but hey anything is possible - id certainly vote to remain (as I did before)
And if we do leave Ill be voting for whoever campaigns for rejoin
Yes exactlyYou can't totally take no deal off the table.
its one option but the counter arguments would be... we have already had q1 so lets go straight to q2Q1 leave or revoke A50
Then if leave gets over 50%
Q2 May's deal or no deal
No, please, no more referendums, if we are staying in then the current parliament has to have the guts to revoke A50, that is the only way to stop a No Deal.Maybe but lurching out in October would end any chance of a better outcome. A new referendum and staying in the EU is still possible even if unlikely.
I agree. A new referendum will solve nothing. What happens if remain wins by 1% this time? Or leave wins by 1.8% again.No, please, no more referendums, if we are staying in then the current parliament has to have the guts to revoke A50, that is the only way to stop a No Deal.
I don't watch the commons much, so it might be normal for him but it stood out to me watching the GE debate last night how he was just sat in the back corner.Even his own brother thinks he's a cnut
Excellent.The first time an MP has quit to spend less time with their family
I can't see A50 being revoked without another referendum no matter how much I hate them.No, please, no more referendums, if we are staying in then the current parliament has to have the guts to revoke A50, that is the only way to stop a No Deal.
A new referendum would take ages to agree the question to be put, which despite talk of various options for the question to have any validity over the first referendum it would still have to be binary, i.e. Remain or Leave and in the meantime the government of this country will be 'all at sea', it has to end now. Parliament whilst it has the whip hand has to vote to revoke A50, its the last chance. Despite hopes that extensions might allow for a new referendum it also allows for a GE, Parliament cant keep Boris in office but not in power indefinitely, as the damage to the Government and economy would be ten times worse than a No Deal Brexit. After a relative short period of time the further real (not project fear) chaos caused will be firmly placed on Parliaments shoulders, and whenever the GE comes they will be slaughtered by a revised and renewed Brexit front, with the (albeit rump but sizeable) Conservative party deployed in formation with Brexit Party candidates across those areas where they can win.
Parliament has manoeuvred to get a foothold on power, but its a tenuous one, it has to act decisive and revoke A50 otherwise all is lost, any further extension leads to No Deal...eventually!
You might as well say we aleady voted in in 1975.its one option but the counter arguments would be... we have already had q1 so lets go straight to q2
and who is going to propose mays deal as q2?... not the conservatives (who want a harder deal)... and not labour (who want a softer deal)
Im pretty certain that calling something "Mays deal" would not pass the scrutiny of the electoral commission
as I say its going to have a lot of legal challenges as there is probably 20 different options available and 95% of people will disagree with 95% of them (format , options etc) - without all the legal arguments over wordings etc... it will take at least 6 months to run a referndum (by law - the period to pass the legistlation, the period for the question to be agreed, official campaigns designated then the run up period) - add in legal challanges and I wouldnt be surprised to see it take a year (and if somebody wanted to negotiate a new deal to put on the referendum... make that 2 years or more)
That assumes that as people get older, they will become more and more likely to vote Tory. As far as I'm aware, generally political opinions are crystallised much earlier in life - it's not that old people are necessarily more conservative, it's that the currently old people are more conservative.Exactly. And the number of old people will continue to get higher and higher. It used to be the case that the only thing stopping young people dominating the vote was their own inertia. But we’re fast heading towards a future where even if every one of them votes they will still be out-numbered.
you would hope that we wouldnt just fanny around for a couple of years this time with bluster and bullshit - but I have my doubts we would have learned our lessonYou might as well say we aleady voted in in 1975.
May's deal or a close facimilie is all there is.
And we should request a 2 year delay to get our shit together and hope the EU doesn't just want shot of us.