Ofcourse. He gained 3rd highest points since his appointment.
Why are we dropping the standards for Ole?
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
- Start date
No, people do not expect a lot more. We have 3 victories in 16 games. There is a lot that has happened since the good start to raise genuine questions.
So that actually proves my point.
Jose went on a run with 6 wins in 17 and he didn't play against teams like PSG and Barca. Didn't see you calling for his head. You called Ole naive and few more, but nothing against Jose when it was obvious for everyone that he isn't right fit. Why? (Answer is your post)
But we only have 3 victories in the last 16 games though. If you extrapolate that over the course of 38 games, we are looking at relegation here.
Questions need to be asked. But can any fan honestly stomach another rebuild? This season is absolutely critical. If we don't finish in the top 4, then Ole needs to go.
Did we not literally talk about this last week? You want me to just repeat myself?
Let me ask you honestly. If he does not win the next three games, what will your opinion be? This cannot go on much longer. He has no track record, thinking it will come good is verging on fantasy.
He is here to save Glazer money by promoting youth and try to convince the fans that they are good enough to survive in EPL, result doesn't matter as long as he achieve those 2 main targets.
I was Jose out so I can explain my reasonings
1. Jose was hired from the get go with an understanding that we would sacrifice exciting football, sacrifice youth, and cause an implosion because Jose would guarantee us competing for the biggest titles
2. Jose never had us competing for the biggest titles despite having 2 summer transfer windows spending a lot of money
3. Jose's usual imprint had boring football, but very effective counter attacks. This was not shown in all of his time here. Our counters were terrible.
4. One basic I wanted our manager to accomplish was for our side to look like they had any sort of chemistry and that they moved properly around the pitch. Wasn't accomplished.
5. Jose's 2nd season was a mirage. We were playing terrible, and we clearly were relying on de Gea. We had the most goal scoring chances conceded of the top 6, and the least amount of chances created out of the top 6 sides. This suggested that we were in fact relying on de Gea.
It's not like I didn't support Jose. I supported him and after the initial 2 month period, it was clear we were heading in the wrong direction. Still, I had hope. The start of his 2nd season was good, and then it collapsed again. We were out of the title race by December, which is not what we had all agreed should be a fundamental during his tenure. The bar was lowered for him further, because now I at least wanted some semblance of the old Jose sides where counter attacking was great, and we couldn't even muster that.
Van Gaal was the same idea
1. Van Gaal was supposed to fix our attack after Moyes took over the team. Our movement was terrible, and we had no idea how to attack which is why we had that 81 crosses Fulham match. It was clear Moyes had no idea how to properly get the players to form a great attack like we were seeing out of Klopp's Dortmund side and yes, even Brendan's Liverpool side.
2. The movement was still terrible under Van Gaal, and he was insanely conservative in his own way.
3. It was clear after his 2nd season that Van Gaal could not get the side to perform the way we thought he could get us to be.
Ole it's the same thing
1. Ole needs to get our players to look like a side that has chemistry and knows what to do in the attacking third. We want to resemble a more exciting side like Klopp's liverpool. The first 4-5 games he had accomplished this. At the time I posted that I wasn't sure whether this is due to Ole as he surely can't have had too much time with the squad. We were pressing as a team, and we passed very quickly not just on counters, but just in general. Little by little we started to concede a lot of possession, and after the injury crisis vs Liverpool, we started to play much like with Mourinho.
2. Ole has had a pre season and I'm not seeing what I saw in those first 4-5 games. We're pressing, but not like in those first 4-5 matches. Feels like a bunch of individuals putting in effort, which isn't all that effective. We're not dominating possession like we did in those 4-5 matches where we forced turnovers, and then quickly started an attacking transition.
3. The only thing resembling those initial 4-5 games is our ability to counter attack with speed. Everything else reverted back. There is no longer an excuse about injuries forcing Ole to change his tactics.
So trust me, I'm very wary of Ole and I'm not like those other posters who simply think all a manager needs is time. I'm not Ole out simply because it's only been 4 matches, and there is no manager that intrigues me at the moment. At the very least, I want to see the basics (movement, pressing) get done right. I'm willing to forgive results if I can clearly see the manager implement his own modern looking side. Klopp and Pep did this. They didn't get the results they wanted initially, but instantly you could tell what they wanted to do and they were resembling their former sides.
I'm looking at any manager who shows promise that plays a style that I feel is exciting. Marco Rose is one of those managers. If he doesn't live up to the hype in the Bundesliga, I won't be in favor of him. I'm sure there will be more intriguing managers pop up.
1. Jose was hired from the get go with an understanding that we would sacrifice exciting football, sacrifice youth, and cause an implosion because Jose would guarantee us competing for the biggest titles
2. Jose never had us competing for the biggest titles despite having 2 summer transfer windows spending a lot of money
3. Jose's usual imprint had boring football, but very effective counter attacks. This was not shown in all of his time here. Our counters were terrible.
4. One basic I wanted our manager to accomplish was for our side to look like they had any sort of chemistry and that they moved properly around the pitch. Wasn't accomplished.
5. Jose's 2nd season was a mirage. We were playing terrible, and we clearly were relying on de Gea. We had the most goal scoring chances conceded of the top 6, and the least amount of chances created out of the top 6 sides. This suggested that we were in fact relying on de Gea.
It's not like I didn't support Jose. I supported him and after the initial 2 month period, it was clear we were heading in the wrong direction. Still, I had hope. The start of his 2nd season was good, and then it collapsed again. We were out of the title race by December, which is not what we had all agreed should be a fundamental during his tenure. The bar was lowered for him further, because now I at least wanted some semblance of the old Jose sides where counter attacking was great, and we couldn't even muster that.
Van Gaal was the same idea
1. Van Gaal was supposed to fix our attack after Moyes took over the team. Our movement was terrible, and we had no idea how to attack which is why we had that 81 crosses Fulham match. It was clear Moyes had no idea how to properly get the players to form a great attack like we were seeing out of Klopp's Dortmund side and yes, even Brendan's Liverpool side.
2. The movement was still terrible under Van Gaal, and he was insanely conservative in his own way.
3. It was clear after his 2nd season that Van Gaal could not get the side to perform the way we thought he could get us to be.
Ole it's the same thing
1. Ole needs to get our players to look like a side that has chemistry and knows what to do in the attacking third. We want to resemble a more exciting side like Klopp's liverpool. The first 4-5 games he had accomplished this. At the time I posted that I wasn't sure whether this is due to Ole as he surely can't have had too much time with the squad. We were pressing as a team, and we passed very quickly not just on counters, but just in general. Little by little we started to concede a lot of possession, and after the injury crisis vs Liverpool, we started to play much like with Mourinho.
2. Ole has had a pre season and I'm not seeing what I saw in those first 4-5 games. We're pressing, but not like in those first 4-5 matches. Feels like a bunch of individuals putting in effort, which isn't all that effective. We're not dominating possession like we did in those 4-5 matches where we forced turnovers, and then quickly started an attacking transition.
3. The only thing resembling those initial 4-5 games is our ability to counter attack with speed. Everything else reverted back. There is no longer an excuse about injuries forcing Ole to change his tactics.
So trust me, I'm very wary of Ole and I'm not like those other posters who simply think all a manager needs is time. I'm not Ole out simply because it's only been 4 matches, and there is no manager that intrigues me at the moment. At the very least, I want to see the basics (movement, pressing) get done right. I'm willing to forgive results if I can clearly see the manager implement his own modern looking side. Klopp and Pep did this. They didn't get the results they wanted initially, but instantly you could tell what they wanted to do and they were resembling their former sides.
I'm looking at any manager who shows promise that plays a style that I feel is exciting. Marco Rose is one of those managers. If he doesn't live up to the hype in the Bundesliga, I won't be in favor of him. I'm sure there will be more intriguing managers pop up.
Like I said, regardless if you think it will work or not, at least he HAS a strategy and isn't just wasting transfer funds on seemingly random targets like Mourinho. We know Mourinho's "strategy" (or lack thereof) didn't work. Nice to see a manager who actually has one.
Very easy to say the football isn't sustainable but it's a random guess at best. The football was played with players completely chosen by the previous manager, Mourinho. He worked with what was given to him an nearly pulled off top 4 (a feat many thought was out of the question before he was hired)
If you honestly think that's throwing players under the bus or even comparable to Mourinho picking on specific players then I don't know what to tell you. I mean that was clearly a statement of intent, that the current players in the squad weren't guaranteed a place and he thought he would succeed. Weird to equate this with throwing players under the bus
And that's your opinion, but irrelevant to the accusation that the only reason fans support Ole is b/c he isn't Mourinho, which was what you originally claimed.
I'm glad we can now both agree that this isn't simply a case of non-Mourinho. Cheers.
No, for a lot of people, they were so anti Mourinho they feel like they have to defend Ole. At least Jose had a track record where you could defend him as a manager and tactician. Ole has no such thing. If he wasn't ex United he wouldn't have had a sniff at the job and every week his naivety shows. People saying he just needs time are lying to themselves.
By the same metrix you hail Ole as making progress
Sorry to break it to you but past achievements are signals, not predictors of success. Defending a track record while a large sample size of current results and missed targets (with a handpicked playing staff) are staring you in the face (see Mourinho, Jose) is a pretty foolish hiring strategy for any company/organization/etc.
Who were those players that he threw under the bus? I can't remember which ones he said. I do however know which ones are gone and I know which players Mourinho threw under the bus...you see, there's a big difference between one coach calling out players publically and another saying that some won't be here next year...
Sorry to break it to you but the current run under Ole is even worse and he had never shown anything to suggest he can fix it.
He didn’t name the players but he was clearly implying it was the players and not him. Sorry but, he has proven nothing to have such arrogance.
Weird you picked out one sentence out of my entire reply, yet your reply doesn't even dispute it. Not sure what's that about.
Regardless, I don't hail Ole. I just know he nearly made top-4 with a squad Mourinho built and subsequently complained about. I also realize he just had his first transfer window and is 4 matches into it. I mean these are merely just facts unless you know of some alternate reality I wasn't made aware of...
Why are people talking about last year? This is the first year that Ole has been at the helm from the start. Whether we went on a big winning run or losing run, what matters is now. We are 1-2-1 (which isn't great on paper) but you need to look past the results. We are heading in the right direction and if we keep playing the way we have been the results will come. The absolute worst thing that the club could do right now is put a halt to that progress and get rid of the manager. For the first time in years we are headed in the right direction but because we aren't winning every game 16-0 people are freaking out. Change doesn't happen over night. When Klopp took over Liverpool there wasn't any change. Even in his second full year they were still inconsistent. But their fans saw them playing in a way which would eventually produce results. Do you think any of their fans were calling for Klopp to be sacked? Not a chance. I don't know what sickens me more....the fact that I have to quote Liverpool to make a point, or that we have such fickle fans who can't see past a scoresheet and see the real progress that we are making...
That makes sense if we are ignoring what he did when he first came, with a squad he had no input in forming. It's odd (but unsurprising) you harp on his run while adding 0 context. Since we're playing that game, can I just cherry pick Ole's undefeated run? Am I doing this right?
That's not arrogance. It's saying that there are players who aren't of United quality and who aren't putting in their all for the badge. What would you expect him to say? That everything is fine?
I already spoke about it. It can be said that the football at the start was unsustainable for a whole season, certainly with the players and squad we have. The injuries is an indication of that. Beyond that if you have an understanding of football, you know that to press intensely you are going to have to keep the ball better when you win it back. I have said this since he arrived at the club. I have not ignored what happened.
I am not cherry picking. I am telling you what I think of him both in his good and bad run. Are people surprised that a rookie is making naive mistakes?
Implying that they are not of United quality and he is in a managerial capacity? He has proven nothing.
Claiming players wont be here and that he will be a success is arrogance. He has done nothing to suggest he will be a success at this level. He basically said the players are not good enough but he is.
fecking hell
Do you work for Sun? Blatantly twisting his words. He was talking about attitude and desire as Everton outrun us by 7 KMs. It was not just comment in isolation.
Stop comparing him to Klopp. Klopp won the Bundesliga. No one is asking him to win 16-0. Just win a game.
Anyway, he needs to get results in the next 3 games. People can make as many excuses as they want. If he gets results he buys himself time because he has earned it.
Ok, you can look at it how you want. It's not a major concern for me anyway, I can look past it regardless.fecking hell
Do you work for Sun? Blatantly twisting his words. He was talking about attitude and desire as Everton outrun us by 7 KMs. It was not just comment in isolation.
Can you answer this? I am genuinely asking.
Did you extrapolate when we were on winning run and came up with "we are looking at PL title here" posts?
Also do we play PSG and Barca 8 times, Wolves 6 times, Chelsea 4 times? That's the problem with extrapolating and also taking cup results into consideration.
I can stomach another rebuild, much better than papering the cracks.
Wanting to clear out the squad is "arrogant"?
Damn.I don't change my opinion on managers in weekly basis. I don't think Ole will be the one to win league and CL, doesn't mean I want him gone. I don't understand why he should be judged on the mesa created by Jose. For me this is the first season and whatever Ole achieves this season counts. He should get fair chance and if he doesn't get top 4 he should leave. I always said that, and will say it again. We need rebuild but it shouldn't be at the cost of league position. We should do both together.
Just like how I wanted Jose and Van Gaal to be given time, I want Ole to be given at least a season. If the results don't pick up then obviously he will be gone but the way he has set up I have confidence results will pick up.
And that coming from a Jose fan is justWanting to clear out the squad is "arrogant"?
Ole and arrogance. Another low by Jose fan.
So you think he should leave if he does not get top 4. Thank you for answering. If he gets top 4 then I also think he has earned another season, mostly because I think if he does, he would have shown some good things.
Jose is arrogant, no one will deny it. He earned his arrogance though.And that coming from a Jose fan is just
Ole and arrogance. Another low by Jose fan.
If you have understanding of football then you will know pressing, ability to retain possession (which needs players to move all the time) relies so much on fitness.
Wonder what was the reason for shit fitness of the squad.
He didn't at ManUtd.
Yes. Unless he wins Europa and gets to CL.
One of the best managers of all time has a right to some arrogance. You don't have to agree, that's my opinion.
Jose did a great job at Utd?
On topic, we haven't dropped any standards. This is standard ManUtd policy where they give time for manager.
Van Gaal won 3 out of first 10 PL games and we played against only 2 strong teams. Then we were destroyed by MK dons. He should have been sacked but we didn't drop the standards. We just gave him time.
Jose also went on multiple runs where we didn't many games.
Also doubt board consider his results from last season where he was working with team that ran out of gas.
Van Gaal won 3 out of first 10 PL games and we played against only 2 strong teams. Then we were destroyed by MK dons. He should have been sacked but we didn't drop the standards. We just gave him time.
Jose also went on multiple runs where we didn't many games.
Also doubt board consider his results from last season where he was working with team that ran out of gas.
I don't think what he achieved at other club counts, it's what he does for ManUtd. You don't have to agree, that's my opinion.
It's like saying that Ole has done nothing before becoming our manager doesn't matter. Doesn't work like that in real life.
No. It's what he does at other clubs doesn't count when you rate his achievements for ManUtd. When you don't achieve much, you shouldn't be arrogant (at least going by your posts)
Same for players
Standards have permanently dropped since the 'chosen one' took over.
No title challenge since SAF retired.
If Ole doesn't get top 4, he should be sacked. No ifs, ands or buts about it.
No title challenge since SAF retired.
If Ole doesn't get top 4, he should be sacked. No ifs, ands or buts about it.
Because nostalgia is a thing.