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Ofcourse. He gained 3rd highest points since his appointment.Expected a lot more?
Ofcourse. He gained 3rd highest points since his appointment.Expected a lot more?
No, people do not expect a lot more. We have 3 victories in 16 games. There is a lot that has happened since the good start to raise genuine questions.Ofcourse. He gained 3rd highest points since his appointment.
So that actually proves my point.No, people do not expect a lot more. We have 3 victories in 16 games. There is a lot that has happened since the good start to raise genuine questions.
Or because he simply isn't Mourinho.
But we only have 3 victories in the last 16 games though. If you extrapolate that over the course of 38 games, we are looking at relegation here.Ofcourse. He gained 3rd highest points since his appointment.
Did we not literally talk about this last week? You want me to just repeat myself?So that actually proves my point.
Jose went on a run with 6 wins in 17 and he didn't play against teams like PSG and Barca. Didn't see you calling for his head. You called Ole naive and few more, but nothing against Jose when it was obvious for everyone that he isn't right fit. Why? (Answer is your post)
Like I said, regardless if you think it will work or not, at least he HAS a strategy and isn't just wasting transfer funds on seemingly random targets like Mourinho. We know Mourinho's "strategy" (or lack thereof) didn't work. Nice to see a manager who actually has one.You say he has a coherent strategy. It really isn't that coherent in my opinion. He has signed 3 British players but that's not a strategy. The strategy on the pitch is not coherent. He said he will trust more youth. At the moment the options in the squad are thin and the striking situation just makes him look naive. Yes, I do think he is naive.
Very easy to say the football isn't sustainable but it's a random guess at best. The football was played with players completely chosen by the previous manager, Mourinho. He worked with what was given to him an nearly pulled off top 4 (a feat many thought was out of the question before he was hired)You say he almost salvaged the season, but it's very easy to say that the football was not sustainable. The players started to get injured and the tail end of the season was very bad. It has carried on this season in terms of results. People said the pre season will help but it has done very little and Martial and Shaw already have injuries.
If you honestly think that's throwing players under the bus or even comparable to Mourinho picking on specific players then I don't know what to tell you. I mean that was clearly a statement of intent, that the current players in the squad weren't guaranteed a place and he thought he would succeed. Weird to equate this with throwing players under the busYou say he isn't throwing players under the bus to compensate for his own shortcomings but last season after a poor performance he said there would be players that would not be here and that he would be a success. Implying that it was certain players and not his own shortcomings. Which is interesting because he is the one that was relegated and sacked with Cardiff and was managing in the Norweigan league.
And that's your opinion, but irrelevant to the accusation that the only reason fans support Ole is b/c he isn't Mourinho, which was what you originally claimed.He is a rookie at this level. His in game substitutions and team selections are very questionable. Sorry, but that's how I see it. He has to show something quickly because the next few games are difficult.
No, for a lot of people, they were so anti Mourinho they feel like they have to defend Ole. At least Jose had a track record where you could defend him as a manager and tactician. Ole has no such thing. If he wasn't ex United he wouldn't have had a sniff at the job and every week his naivety shows. People saying he just needs time are lying to themselves.Like I said, regardless if you think it will work or not, at least he HAS a strategy and isn't just wasting transfer funds on seemingly random targets like Mourinho. We know Mourinho's "strategy" (or lack thereof) didn't work. Nice to see a manager who actually has one.
Very easy to say the football isn't sustainable but it's a random guess at best. The football was played with players completely chosen by the previous manager, Mourinho. He worked with what was given to him an nearly pulled off top 4 (a feat many thought was out of the question before he was hired)
If you honestly think that's throwing players under the bus or even comparable to Mourinho picking on specific players then I don't know what to tell you. I mean that was clearly a statement of intent, that the current players in the squad weren't guaranteed a place and he thought he would succeed. Weird to equate this with throwing players under the bus
And that's your opinion, but irrelevant to the accusation that the only reason fans support Ole is b/c he isn't Mourinho, which was what you originally claimed.
I'm glad we can now both agree that this isn't simply a case of non-Mourinho. Cheers.
By the same metrix you hail Ole as making progressExcept Ole didn't:
1. Waste hundreds of millions of pounds on players that the fans already want sold
2. Miss his own targets (2nd place finish was his greatest achievement yet he though the squad was equipped to win the title)
3. Create scapegoats out of his players and bosses
4. Essentially call United a small club after being dumped out of Champions league by mighty Sevilla
5. Play sleep-inducing football consistently
6. Have United nowhere near top 4 at end of his tenure
The most important point being 1,2,5,6. If Ole fails at these he will sacked and rightfully so. Oddly enough Woodward, Pogba, and Marital won't be as effective scapegoats for Ole as they were for Mourinho.
I shit on Mourinho b/c he's a crap, past-it manager who never takes responsibility for his own failings. Simple as.
Sorry to break it to you but past achievements are signals, not predictors of success. Defending a track record while a large sample size of current results and missed targets (with a handpicked playing staff) are staring you in the face (see Mourinho, Jose) is a pretty foolish hiring strategy for any company/organization/etc.No, for a lot of people, they were so anti Mourinho they feel like they have to defend Ole. At least Jose had a track record where you could defend him as a manager and tactician. Ole has no such thing. If he wasn't ex United he wouldn't have had a sniff at the job and every week his naivety shows. People saying he just needs time are lying to themselves.
Who were those players that he threw under the bus? I can't remember which ones he said. I do however know which ones are gone and I know which players Mourinho threw under the bus...you see, there's a big difference between one coach calling out players publically and another saying that some won't be here next year...You say he has a coherent strategy. It really isn't that coherent in my opinion. He has signed 3 British players but that's not a strategy. The strategy on the pitch is not coherent. He said he will trust more youth. At the moment the options in the squad are thin and the striking situation just makes him look naive. Yes, I do think he is naive.
You say he almost salvaged the season, but it's very easy to say that the football was not sustainable. The players started to get injured and the tail end of the season was very bad. It has carried on this season in terms of results. People said the pre season will help but it has done very little and Martial and Shaw already have injuries.
You say he isn't throwing players under the bus to compensate for his own shortcomings but last season after a poor performance he said there would be players that would not be here and that he would be a success. Implying that it was certain players and not his own shortcomings. Which is interesting because he is the one that was relegated and sacked with Cardiff and was managing in the Norweigan league.
He is a rookie at this level. His in game substitutions and team selections are very questionable. Sorry, but that's how I see it. He has to show something quickly because the next few games are difficult.
Sorry to break it to you but the current run under Ole is even worse and he had never shown anything to suggest he can fix it.Sorry to break it to you but past achievements are signals, not predictors of success. Defending a track record while a large sample size of current results and missed targets (with a handpicked playing staff) are staring you in the face (see Mourinho, Jose) is a pretty foolish hiring strategy for any company/organization/etc.
He didn’t name the players but he was clearly implying it was the players and not him. Sorry but, he has proven nothing to have such arrogance.Who were those players that he threw under the bus? I can't remember which ones he said. I do however know which ones are gone and I know which players Mourinho threw under the bus...you see, there's a big difference between one coach calling out players publically and another saying that some won't be here next year...
Weird you picked out one sentence out of my entire reply, yet your reply doesn't even dispute it. Not sure what's that about.By the same metrix you hail Ole as making progress
That makes sense if we are ignoring what he did when he first came, with a squad he had no input in forming. It's odd (but unsurprising) you harp on his run while adding 0 context. Since we're playing that game, can I just cherry pick Ole's undefeated run? Am I doing this right?Sorry to break it to you but the current run under Ole is even worse and he had never shown anything to suggest he can fix it.
That's not arrogance. It's saying that there are players who aren't of United quality and who aren't putting in their all for the badge. What would you expect him to say? That everything is fine?He didn’t name the players but he was clearly implying it was the players and not him. Sorry but, he has proven nothing to have such arrogance.
I already spoke about it. It can be said that the football at the start was unsustainable for a whole season, certainly with the players and squad we have. The injuries is an indication of that. Beyond that if you have an understanding of football, you know that to press intensely you are going to have to keep the ball better when you win it back. I have said this since he arrived at the club. I have not ignored what happened.That makes sense if we are ignoring what he did when he first came, with a squad he had no input in forming. It's odd (but unsurprising) you harp on his run while adding 0 context. Since we're playing that game, can I just cherry pick Ole's undefeated run? Am I doing this right?
Implying that they are not of United quality and he is in a managerial capacity? He has proven nothing.That's not arrogance. It's saying that there are players who aren't of United quality and who aren't putting in their all for the badge. What would you expect him to say? That everything is fine?
fecking hellHe didn’t name the players but he was clearly implying it was the players and not him. Sorry but, he has proven nothing to have such arrogance.
Stop comparing him to Klopp. Klopp won the Bundesliga. No one is asking him to win 16-0. Just win a game.Why are people talking about last year? This is the first year that Ole has been at the helm from the start. Whether we went on a big winning run or losing run, what matters is now. We are 1-2-1 (which isn't great on paper) but you need to look past the results. We are heading in the right direction and if we keep playing the way we have been the results will come. The absolute worst thing that the club could do right now is put a halt to that progress and get rid of the manager. For the first time in years we are headed in the right direction but because we aren't winning every game 16-0 people are freaking out. Change doesn't happen over night. When Klopp took over Liverpool there wasn't any change. Even in his second full year they were still inconsistent. But their fans saw them playing in a way which would eventually produce results. Do you think any of their fans were calling for Klopp to be sacked? Not a chance. I don't know what sickens me more....the fact that I have to quote Liverpool to make a point, or that we have such fickle fans who can't see past a scoresheet and see the real progress that we are making...
Ok, you can look at it how you want. It's not a major concern for me anyway, I can look past it regardless.fecking hell
Do you work for Sun? Blatantly twisting his words. He was talking about attitude and desire as Everton outrun us by 7 KMs. It was not just comment in isolation.
Can you answer this? I am genuinely asking.Let me ask you honestly. If he does not win the next three games, what will your opinion be? This cannot go on much longer. He has no track record, thinking it will come good is verging on fantasy.
Did you extrapolate when we were on winning run and came up with "we are looking at PL title here" posts?But we only have 3 victories in the last 16 games though. If you extrapolate that over the course of 38 games, we are looking at relegation here.
Questions need to be asked. But can any fan honestly stomach another rebuild? This season is absolutely critical. If we don't finish in the top 4, then Ole needs to go.
Wanting to clear out the squad is "arrogant"? Damn.He didn’t name the players but he was clearly implying it was the players and not him. Sorry but, he has proven nothing to have such arrogance.
I don't change my opinion on managers in weekly basis. I don't think Ole will be the one to win league and CL, doesn't mean I want him gone. I don't understand why he should be judged on the mesa created by Jose. For me this is the first season and whatever Ole achieves this season counts. He should get fair chance and if he doesn't get top 4 he should leave. I always said that, and will say it again. We need rebuild but it shouldn't be at the cost of league position. We should do both together.Ok, you can look at it how you want. It's not a major concern for me anyway, I can look past it regardless
Can you answer this? I am genuinely asking.
And that coming from a Jose fan is justWanting to clear out the squad is "arrogant"? Damn.
So you think he should leave if he does not get top 4. Thank you for answering. If he gets top 4 then I also think he has earned another season, mostly because I think if he does, he would have shown some good things.I don't change my opinion on managers in weekly basis. I don't think Ole will be the one to win league and CL, doesn't mean I want him gone. I don't understand why he should be judged on the mesa created by Jose. For me this is the first season and whatever Ole achieves this season counts. He should get fair chance and if he doesn't get top 4 he should leave. I always said that, and will say it again. We need rebuild but it shouldn't be at the cost of league position. We should do both together.
Just like how I wanted Jose and Van Gaal to be given time, I want Ole to be given at least a season. If the results don't pick up then obviously he will be gone but the way he has set up I have confidence results will pick up.
Jose is arrogant, no one will deny it. He earned his arrogance though.And that coming from a Jose fan is just
Ole and arrogance. Another low by Jose fan.
If you have understanding of football then you will know pressing, ability to retain possession (which needs players to move all the time) relies so much on fitness.I already spoke about it. It can be said that the football at the start was unsustainable for a whole season, certainly with the players and squad we have. The injuries is an indication of that. Beyond that if you have an understanding of football, you know that to press intensely you are going to have to keep the ball better when you win it back. I have said this since he arrived at the club. I have not ignored what happened.
I am not cherry picking. I am telling you what I think of him both in his good and bad run. Are people surprised that a rookie is making naive mistakes?
He didn't at ManUtd.Jose is arrogant, no one will deny it. He earned his arrogance though.
Yes. Unless he wins Europa and gets to CL.So you think he should leave if he does not get top 4. Thank you for answering. If he gets top 4 then I also think he has earned another season, mostly because I think if he does, he would have shown some good things.
One of the best managers of all time has a right to some arrogance. You don't have to agree, that's my opinion.He didn't at ManUtd.
I don't think what he achieved at other club counts, it's what he does for ManUtd. You don't have to agree, that's my opinion.One of the best managers of all time has a right to some arrogance. You don't have to agree, that's my opinion.
It's like saying that Ole has done nothing before becoming our manager doesn't matter. Doesn't work like that in real life.I don't think what he achieved at other club counts, it's what he does for ManUtd. You don't have to agree, that's my opinion.
No. It's what he does at other clubs doesn't count when you rate his achievements for ManUtd. When you don't achieve much, you shouldn't be arrogant (at least going by your posts)It's like saying that Ole has done nothing before becoming our manager doesn't matter. Doesn't work like that in real life.