MikeKing
Full Member
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2017
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- 5,125
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- Bournemouth
Of course they are. But its what happens when you have an important player that seems to want to leave, especially when that player is a top player but without really convincing us that he has the consistency in his contributions to be treated as such, and we're kept wondering why isn't he performing more consistently? Everything from there is guess work either way, that much we agreed on. I'm just saying especially now when he wants to leave I totally get why more fans have come to the conclusion that it would be fine, and can't be bothered and takes the high road. I totally get that, because you care about the club and not about the individuals who wants to leave. It is just a basic reaction to something, and I think most fans will be in that category. But if your point is strictly against those who treat him unfairly based on racism, prejudice, media influence etc. then I've nothing to argue against. If you're thinking of Gary Neville while we write, no wonder I don't get it.I think such accusations are unjustified,
Your view of the detachment from Pogba in it self is speculative, imo. As I said, he could have been planning to go to Madrid from the start and if he performed here people would give a rats ass about him leaving, they would love him. Hence why I'm insisting the relevance of performance. I'm talking about the general fans here, not the nut jobs. I don't find any evidence for the pattern you suggest here either, just more speculation based on your reading of opinions here, making it a pattern to fit your view. Again, this is where you lose me. How exactly is insecurity of fans a problem, for who? Suggesting our players don't improve due to this? I think we've all made a decision to love this bitch for the rest of our lives and whoever don't like it can suck a d. We protect the vision we have for our love, no? A few idiots are being idiots of that reason, sure, but mostly this is a domestic issue not the cause of a public epidemic effecting solid marriages throughout the land and beyond.The quality of his performances should have no bearing as to whether or not he’s feigning injury, or represents ‘the worst about modern day football’, as I’ve read. Again, my assertion is that ultimately, I believe the detachment from Pogba the person (and subsequently, Pogba the player IMO) is largely based upon a mischaracterising of him as someone who is not really one of us, is selfish, a diva and has been planning to go to Real Madrid since the day he arrived. I think much of that, at least until the comments of the summer, were both wrong and also out of Paul Pogba’s hands, as there is little justification of such feelings based upon his actions. Given that there is a pattern of such feelings, which span beyond Pogba to pretty much all top tier players who either sign with us or are linked to us, my belief is that the greater issue is the insecurity of the fans themselves, who seemingly don’t REALLY think their chick is as hot as they make out, when it comes down to it.
Not sure about this either. Seems you're generalising. If Maguire was distrusted from his involvement with an agent or simply just a much better player, you say we would all be negative towards him now because of it? I don't get it, people are upset about him now in fact, due to performances and price, same as Pogba. If he doesn't improve and his camp sends messages he wants to leave, and different things do you think he wont get criticised for that? How come? Maybe not from Gary Neville but the average fan, sure. He'll have haters galore if that happens. I get the sentiment about we make superstars and not to buy them, but that stems from our previous transfers too, it's not all about Pogba you know.Before any of these performances you speak of, the same fans dismissed any chance of Pogba returning to us in a way they did not dismiss the idea that Harry Maguire would want to join us in the summer. And it will continue to happen if we pursue a superstar. It will always make ‘more sense’ to many for them to join another big club than this one. The underdog talents, who are not as glamorous and can maybe be developed well - those are ‘Manchester United players’. After all, ‘we don’t buy superstars, we make them’. In Pogba’s case, we actually bought one, and he’s been treated with distrust, which has often led to disdain, from the very beginning.
It's about expectations too and how the fans react to not seeing results in the way we have been doing things. I get a lot of your points and agree with much of it but specifically this about fans hating superstars, being insecure as a fanbase etc. has been developed recently in your mind right? Not something you thought much about before caring this much about Pogba? Probably that is because fans haven't had that thought from the beginning either, it has been developed, not only from Pogba turning out as he did but different things. So those comments you've read to form that point specifically probably shouldn't be used to explain the reason you think fans generally are the real issue behind Pogba being under-appreciated or unfairly treated. If you said media suck, or idiots are idiots, I'd be right behind you.
I used to think he was criticised disproportionally at the beginning, and I'm aware he has not had an easy ride to develop himself at United, but at one point you have to hold your hands up and admit that he isn't good enough. He is our most talented player, by far, but not our best performer the last years. He was really good last year, and if he had kicked on this season I probably wouldn't be in here arguing. Yes, he has been injured but thats part of it too I think. It is just my reaction to his performances. Pogba can do incredible things, the problem is that he doesn't do any of it consistently enough to have been considered our best performer, our best player these last years.You keep saying that I am not acknowledging the link between performances and treatment, but I don’t think you are acknowledging the link between how performances are analysed and how the player is seen as a person. And again, even speaking performances, his are better than the rest and he’s criticised disproportionately. He was in the team of the season last year, and on this forum, the focus is constantly on whatever it is people feel he can’t do rather than the considerable that he can. Look at Scott McTominay. There is a lot he cannot do as a top level CM. There’s a large section of fans who acknowledge these things, but prefer to focus on the two or so things that he does quite well. We like him.
Based on the last part of the season he was our best player, based on his talent he is our best player, but he hasn't been our best performer. If you want to judge McTominay on the same criteria as Pogba that is on you. I have higher expectations of Lindelof than Jones. Just because Jones is still around doesn't mean that because Lindelof is more talented that he can walk around not defending, and we can in fact praise Jones for coming in and perform better than Lindelof without thinking he must be freakin' Duncan Edwards, and it still won't make Lindelof better in that game just because you're comparing him with a lesser talented player.
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