Is Pogba as good as gone?

Sara125

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Like every player on earth, there isn't a single perfect player and since you mentioned De Bruyne he doesn't contribute more defensively and loses the ball at a good rate too, it's something that all creative players do. You are focusing on Pogba because he plays for United and his flaws are overstated because we aren't successful. You described his Juventus time as successful but he was losing the ball as much and he wasn't really better defensively.
I mentioned these things because you, and others, have insinuated that he plays shit cos his teammates around him are and I’m simply saying that there are things that he does or doesn’t do as an individual not because of his teammates, whether he did them at his former club or not (which actually helps my point because he had good players around him at juve and still did these things as an individual so it shows it’s actually just him) or whether there are others players in the same or a similar role that do them too, is irrelevant
 

JPRouve

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I mentioned these things because you, and others, have insinuated that he plays shit cos his teammates around him are and I’m simply saying that there are things that he does or doesn’t do as an individual not because of his teammates, whether he did them at his former club or not (which actually helps my point because he had good players around him at juve and still did these things as an individual so it shows it’s actually just him) or whether there are others players in the same or a similar role that do them too, is irrelevant
He doesn't play shit.
 

Hammondo

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Fees for players has sky rocketed, and if Real, PSG, or Juventus really want Pogba, they will pay this amount for him. It's 50million less than we were looking for, last season.
They did skyrocket, they have fallen since because teams cannot keep it up, and the players showed to be clearly not worth close to that amount.

Pogba is a massive risk, and so I doubt anyone will be jumping at him. No one has so far.
 

JPRouve

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Well not very good then
Pogba has been our best performer in the last three seasons, he has been one of the most creative player in the league over the same period of time. He has been very good in the context of Football. He has had bad games , he may be frustrating at times but to suggest that he hasn't been very good is just nonsensical. Now I get it when people are disappointed because they expected to sign the best player in the world since he was the most expensive in 2016 but that fee was never justified.
 

kouroux

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The thing with us fans is, once you join the club you're judged by different standards from others outside the club. Outside the club players are judged by highlight videos of their best actions, but once they join they are judged by in-depth, second-by-second footage of every match. We're seeing evidence of that with Maguire and AWB currently.


With that in mind, there aren't that many players who will live up to their prepurchase hype, unless like Dan James they weren't hyped at all. In that case, I think players who people regard as better than Pogba playing for other teams will be viewed very differently should they join United, and their play forensically analyzed.


All that to say that I think Pogba is still one of the best in the league, but like you said he's unable to do what we're asking which is basically be perfect game to game. Very few players will be able to achieve that at our club, so I think his play should be viewed through that lens.
Not a lot of people actually watched him play full games before joining us. The fact that Juve made us a record fee didn't help either in terms of expectation
 

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They did skyrocket, they have fallen since because teams cannot keep it up, and the players showed to be clearly not worth close to that amount.

Pogba is a massive risk, and so I doubt anyone will be jumping at him. No one has so far.
Massive risk and we paid almost 90million for him. Let's see next summer what he is worth as I'm sure there will be teams in for him.
( probably adding players to cut the cost)
 

Sara125

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Pogba has been our best performer in the last three seasons, he has been one of the most creative player in the league over the same period of time. He has been very good in the context of Football. He has had bad games , he may be frustrating at times but to suggest that he hasn't been very good is just nonsensical. Now I get it when people are disappointed because they expected to sign the best player in the world since he was the most expensive in 2016 but that fee was never justified.
I agree that compared to everyone else and when he is on form he’s easily our best outfield player and has been but the reality is he is TOO inconsistent and when he’s bad he’s really bad. Anyway I’ve just seen your location and it makes sense why you so vehemently defend him
 

JPRouve

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I agree that compared to everyone else and when he is on form he’s easily our best outfield player and has been but the reality is he is TOO inconsistent and when he’s bad he’s really bad. Anyway I’ve just seen your location and it makes sense why you so vehemently defend him
My location has nothing to do with it and don't insult me with that type of remark. I didn't want Pogba for that fee because I thought that he wasn't worth it and all the people that overrated him would come out with silly criticism, which is exactly what happened.
 

Irwin99

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Not saying it should have been done but I do wonder what would have happened if we'd sold him for 150 million this summer (if that fee was even likely) and brought in two attacking players that we desperately needed with the money.
 

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Not saying it should have been done but I do wonder what would have happened if we'd sold him for 150 million this summer (if that fee was even likely) and brought in two attacking players that we desperately needed with the money.
Do you honestly have the faith we'd have brought in two attacking players and not ended up just "trusting the kids" like we have done? Barely any of us thought we'd sell Lukaku and not replace him. Maybe we'd have brought someone in for Pogba, but I can't pretend I'm convinced we would have.

If we'd actually done it though, we'd probably be better off right now if they were fit. But we'd probably be better off if Pogba had been fit all season too.

We'll get a good chunk of money for him in the summer so losing out money isn't the worry for me, its what we do with it that deeply concern me as I don't have any faith in the club.
 

He'sRaldo

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Not a lot of people actually watched him play full games before joining us. The fact that Juve made us a record fee didn't help either in terms of expectation
Exactly, which is why people were surprised when he joined that he wasn't replicating his highlight videos every match. That's what I mean.

They don't watch 90 mins forensically of other players in the league when they say they're better than Pogba, in the same way they didn't watch 90 mins of Pogba at Juve, and were subsequently surprised by what they got.

All to say Pogba is still definitely one of the best in the league and world, but currently is not perceived as such because the forensic analysis of his game is not applied to others who don't play for a club like Man Utd.
 
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Rozay

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I´m getting really tired with this Pogba talk. I wonder if he really wanted to be here in the first place and people have been making excuses for him right,left and center. For all his talent he has not produced many great performances while in a United shirt. Some try to explain that by that he´s needs this role or that role to bring out the best in him, he need´s better players around him and so on. Of course there are some truths there BUT what about his lack of effort and not doing the fundementals of a midfield player in tracking back, moving the ball cripsly around, winning your duels and so on. He´s seems to pick and choose when he´s interested in giving his all. When Robson,Keane,Scholes,Giggs,Ronaldo and the rest had their off days on the field at least they came of the field having done those basic things a footballer needs to do. I think we should move him on and he would fit well in the dramaland that is Real Madrid.
Have you ever watched him play? This criticism is getting out of hand now. He doesn’t struggle to pass the ball, win duels, and very often tracks back anyway. You would think the man was rubbish at football if you hear some of you talk. He’s the best we have and one of the best in the league at moving the ball around and winning duels. CONSISTENTLY too, as that seems to be the favourite buzzword in here.
 

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Pogba works harder and tracks back a shit ton more than Redcafe favourite Martial.
 

JPRouve

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Have you ever watched him play? This criticism is getting out of hand now. He doesn’t struggle to pass the ball, win duels, and very often tracks back anyway. You would think the man was rubbish at football if you hear some of you talk. He’s the best we have and one of the best in the league at moving the ball around and winning duels. CONSISTENTLY too, as that seems to be the favourite buzzword in here.
People have lost any sense of perspective. One could understand that they are disappointed to not have the best player in the world or the best "all-round" midfielder but it seems that the disappointement as turned into a all or nothing mentality where Pogba is either the best or rubbish. Pogba is a very good player, with very good output and very obvious weaknesses, it would have been great if he was the Messi of midfielders but he isn't and no one is.
 

izzydiggler

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People have lost any sense of perspective. One could understand that they are disappointed to not have the best player in the world or the best "all-round" midfielder but it seems that the disappointement as turned into a all or nothing mentality where Pogba is either the best or rubbish. Pogba is a very good player, with very good output and very obvious weaknesses, it would have been great if he was the Messi of midfielders but he isn't and no one is.
I think the problem with Pogba is the hype, marketing, transfer fee etc. Judged on that he's massively overrated...a good, talented player but nowhere the level of hysteria around him would suggest.

That's fine - he didn't choose his fee, has poor team mates etc and contributes but I don't see how anyone can have watched him for 3+ years and not have been underwhelmed. He's either underacheived massively (for whatever reason) or he's the worst 'world class' player I can recall. The truth is probably in-between and whilst I can see reasons for this, I can't agree that he's been a big success at United - and it's not because he isn't Messi, it's because we're continually told he's 'World Class' but hes regularly outplayed by relegation fodder.
 

JPRouve

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I think the problem with Pogba is the hype, marketing, transfer fee etc. Judged on that he's massively overrated...a good, talented player but nowhere the level of hysteria around him would suggest.

That's fine - he didn't choose his fee, has poor team mates etc and contributes but I don't see how anyone can have watched him for 3+ years and not have been underwhelmed. He's either underacheived massively (for whatever reason) or he's the worst 'world class' player I can recall. The truth is probably in-between and whilst I can see reasons for this, I can't agree that he's been a big success at United - and it's not because he isn't Messi, it's because we're continually told he's 'World Class' but hes regularly outplayed by relegation fodder.
I'm a nobody but I watched Pogba for many years and that's what I said about him in his transfer thread. I'm not disappointed he is the player that I knew he was.

Pogba influences games by doing something exceptional, he doesn't influence games with his general play, for some reason people pretend that he does the latter. If your team isn't functional Pogba won't help you much.
That's the beauty of Pogba, it can be anything, a pass, a goal, dribbling 4 or 5 players, stopping a counter attack, he can do it all but his game is still immature. Pogba is young and people are incredibly impatient with him, they see him do things that he doesn't do or can't do on a regular basis yet. People should watch his game against Cameroon, he was lost, completely lost and if it wasn't for Deschamps helping him, he would have drown.
Pogba should be compared to Yaya Touré and he could be as good as Touré in his prime which is a very high level but because of his weaknesses Touré have never been close to be the best midfielder, attacking midfielder or Player in the world. Personally I think that Pogba is going to follow the same path, he is going to develop into a world class player but not the best player or midfielder in the world.
No, it's not. For top teams the best midfielders are the ones that can control the tempo of the game. Yaya Touré and Pogba are only great if their teammates control the midfield otherwise they add to the general mess.
He is overrated, a lot of people think that he is the perfect midfielder, some even said that he was arguably the best all round midfielder in the world, which he isn't. Pogba is a good player with great potential.
I could be wrong but I don't see Pogba as a player that transforms your midfield, he doesn't bump its level. Players like Suarez, Bale or Ronaldo transforms an area of your team, they transform your attack.
 

Irwin99

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Do you honestly have the faith we'd have brought in two attacking players and not ended up just "trusting the kids" like we have done? Barely any of us thought we'd sell Lukaku and not replace him. Maybe we'd have brought someone in for Pogba, but I can't pretend I'm convinced we would have.

If we'd actually done it though, we'd probably be better off right now if they were fit. But we'd probably be better off if Pogba had been fit all season too.

We'll get a good chunk of money for him in the summer so losing out money isn't the worry for me, its what we do with it that deeply concern me as I don't have any faith in the club.
To be honest, probably not.

I don’t believe for a second he wants to be here and this contradicts what Ole said about wanting only players that want to play for the club. That being said, Pogba can hardly be blamed for this season as he’s barely played.

It’s cynical but I thought the plan might be to sell him for 150 million next summer add 50 million extra in transfer funds and that’s our spend for next Season.
 

johanovic

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Have you ever watched him play? This criticism is getting out of hand now. He doesn’t struggle to pass the ball, win duels, and very often tracks back anyway. You would think the man was rubbish at football if you hear some of you talk. He’s the best we have and one of the best in the league at moving the ball around and winning duels. CONSISTENTLY too, as that seems to be the favourite buzzword in here.
Since I´m a season ticket owner at Old Trafford the answer is yes I´ve seen him play quite a few games. Have you seen him at Old Trafford? Talent wise he has it all but can you not see it yourself that applying that talent is the problem? Painting a picture of Pogba as he´s hardworking and winning duels constantly is just far fetched. At the end of the day if he does not want to be here then get rid, there are plenty of good footballers left in this world and there have been far better players that have left Old Trafford than him.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Do you honestly have the faith we'd have brought in two attacking players and not ended up just "trusting the kids" like we have done? Barely any of us thought we'd sell Lukaku and not replace him. Maybe we'd have brought someone in for Pogba, but I can't pretend I'm convinced we would have.

If we'd actually done it though, we'd probably be better off right now if they were fit. But we'd probably be better off if Pogba had been fit all season too.

We'll get a good chunk of money for him in the summer so losing out money isn't the worry for me, its what we do with it that deeply concern me as I don't have any faith in the club.
I questioned the clubs willingness to actually spend this summer only for the many Caf ITKs to tell me how selling him had nothing to do with us buying players and here we are, still crying out for multiple players and over utilising youngsters who either aren't ready or aren't actually trusted by the management.

Anyone thinking selling Pogba will equate to a pound for pound re-investment is too far gone to debate with; we are a club that sells an £70mil striker and overpays for a £80mil centreback - they are clueless in this market and can't be trusted to invest any 'win-fall' from a Pogba sale appropriately.

I think he'll leave but I'm firmly in the better the devil you know camp, at least with the player we have the asset, he's inconsistent but we have a bod y [when fit]; I wholly believe that if we were to sell Pogba we would replace him with a lesser player at an over inflated fee and would be in a similar situation - I hope I'm wrong.
 

Rozay

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9 pages into the latest Pogba bashing thread, which was triggered by .... well nothing. Just a random anti-Pogba musing which found sympathy with many. After that, confirmation bias will kick in when he returns. Every time a pass is misplaced or possession is lost will be like ‘see’, and you would be forgiven for thinking he gives the ball away more often than he completes a pass, when it isn’t even close. We miss his quality in midfield, massively.
 

MikeKing

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9 pages into the latest Pogba bashing thread, which was triggered by .... well nothing. Just a random anti-Pogba musing which found sympathy with many. After that, confirmation bias will kick in when he returns. Every time a pass is misplaced or possession is lost will be like ‘see’, and you would be forgiven for thinking he gives the ball away more often than he completes a pass, when it isn’t even close. We miss his quality in midfield, massively.
I actually thought McTominay played a lot like Pogba against Partizan, similar to when Pogba has a bad game but is overall useful physically. As you alluded to, misplaced passes happens a lot more when you try to be creative with your passes.
 

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Nobody, Nobody, Nobody.... gives a shit anymore
 

Rozay

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I actually thought McTominay played a lot like Pogba against Partizan, similar to when Pogba has a bad game but is overall useful physically. As you alluded to, misplaced passes happens a lot more when you try to be creative with your passes.
Think the main difference is that last night was pretty much an example of how Scott McTominay uses the ball. I quite resent the implication on here, which started as reasoned criticism and has taken on a new life and been massively exaggerated to imply that Pogba can barely pass or control a football, with the caveat of ‘except when he’s in the mood’ as if that gives it reason or balance. Pogba is a fantastic passer, and player, and I suspect if people focused on what he does well nearly as much as the obsession of some with what he doesn’t do well (sometimes) - they will appreciate what we have.

I suspect that those who want him gone will be happy if he were replaced with the exact same player. I reckon that player will likely be praised for his play, as we’d constantly go on about all the good stuff he does. He just won’t be Pogba. I don’t think if the Pogba replacement offered the same as him, but was a different profile (say James Maddison, for example), that the media and others would call him a failure. This is of course, speculative on my part. But it’s how I see things. You could genuinely be forgiven for thinking Pogba was not a good player if you listened to fans and pundits in England. You could be forgiven for thinking he was not a better player than Scott McTominay if you read on here!

He’s a creative midfielder, who, by and large, doesn’t fail to create. People love the ‘c’ word - but his creativity is very consistent. He holds on to the ball and gets dispossessed. Sometimes. And he doesn’t chase every opponent within 20 yards. But then he does things that those who do typically cannot. I think it would be just as fair to him to celebrate those things than constantly bang on about the things he doesn’t do.
 

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Think the main difference is that last night was pretty much an example of how Scott McTominay uses the ball. I quite resent the implication on here, which started as reasoned criticism and has taken on a new life and been massively exaggerated to imply that Pogba can barely pass or control a football, with the caveat of ‘except when he’s in the mood’ as if that gives it reason or balance. Pogba is a fantastic passer, and player, and I suspect if people focused on what he does well nearly as much as the obsession of some with what he doesn’t do well (sometimes) - they will appreciate what we have.

I suspect that those who want him gone will be happy if he were replaced with the exact same player. I reckon that player will likely be praised for his play, as we’d constantly go on about all the good stuff he does. He just won’t be Pogba. I don’t think if the Pogba replacement offered the same as him, but was a different profile (say James Maddison, for example), that the media and others would call him a failure. This is of course, speculative on my part. But it’s how I see things. You could genuinely be forgiven for thinking Pogba was not a good player if you listened to fans and pundits in England. You could be forgiven for thinking he was not a better player than Scott McTominay if you read on here!

He’s a creative midfielder, who, by and large, doesn’t fail to create. People love the ‘c’ word - but his creativity is very consistent. He holds on to the ball and gets dispossessed. Sometimes. And he doesn’t chase every opponent within 20 yards. But then he does things that those who do typically cannot. I think it would be just as fair to him to celebrate those things than constantly bang on about the things he doesn’t do.
While I don't really find myself disagreeing with anything here, you could probably do with your own advice in regards to McTominay as well. He is very dynamic, and imposes himself in games, which makes up for a lot. The same way you can forgive Pogba for giving the ball away due to him trying something out of nothing, you can forgive McTominay giving the ball away because he never gave up on it and won it back for us. Both are useful skillsets.

There is a lot of things to do in midfield without the ball at your feet, and I feel like that's where Pogba never really developed right. I firmly believe if he had developed those parts of his game, say to the level McTominay is seemingly doing right now, he wouldn't have consistency issues and he'd be the best midfielder ever. I use that word because it is the best word for it. As fitting as to say Rashford is inconsistent, world class in moments yes, general level is fluctuating from great to awful, depending. You can line up excuses about these types of players like are they mismanaged, whats their best position, etc. but either way those questions comes from inconsistency no matter whats the cause for it.
Thread is rightly dead, not much to discuss about his injury until its done, so probably okey that we went a little off topic here. Also, as a disclaimer I do think De Bruyne is getting hyped for his moments in the same way as Pogba and definitely not criticised to the same extent. I also found Hazard a bit overrated, in a similar way, in that he had established this image so every time he did something amazing he was the best player in the league, and in periods he didn't contribute much, nobody talked about him. Next time he did something, he was the best. That is not the way it is with Pogba, always in the limelight for both the good and the bad.
 

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While I don't really find myself disagreeing with anything here, you could probably do with your own advice in regards to McTominay as well. He is very dynamic, and imposes himself in games, which makes up for a lot. The same way you can forgive Pogba for giving the ball away due to him trying something out of nothing, you can forgive McTominay giving the ball away because he never gave up on it and won it back for us. Both are useful skillsets.

There is a lot of things to do in midfield without the ball at your feet, and I feel like that's where Pogba never really developed right. I firmly believe if he had developed those parts of his game, say to the level McTominay is seemingly doing right now, he wouldn't have consistency issues and he'd be the best midfielder ever. I use that word because it is the best word for it. As fitting as to say Rashford is inconsistent, world class in moments yes, general level is fluctuating from great to awful, depending. You can line up excuses about these types of players like are they mismanaged, whats their best position, etc. but either way those questions comes from inconsistency no matter whats the cause for it.
Thread is rightly dead, not much to discuss about his injury until its done, so probably okey that we went a little off topic here. Also, as a disclaimer I do think De Bruyne is getting hyped for his moments in the same way as Pogba and definitely not criticised to the same extent. I also found Hazard a bit overrated, in a similar way, in that he had established this image so every time he did something amazing he was the best player in the league, and in periods he didn't contribute much, nobody talked about him. Next time he did something, he was the best. That is not the way it is with Pogba, always in the limelight for both the good and the bad.
You're describing confirmation bias and it's rife around here and with football pundits. People decide someone has an attitude problem or is shit in some way and only see the evidence confirming what they already think too be true while ignoring all evidence to the contrary.
 

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While I don't really find myself disagreeing with anything here, you could probably do with your own advice in regards to McTominay as well. He is very dynamic, and imposes himself in games, which makes up for a lot. The same way you can forgive Pogba for giving the ball away due to him trying something out of nothing, you can forgive McTominay giving the ball away because he never gave up on it and won it back for us. Both are useful skillsets.

There is a lot of things to do in midfield without the ball at your feet, and I feel like that's where Pogba never really developed right. I firmly believe if he had developed those parts of his game, say to the level McTominay is seemingly doing right now, he wouldn't have consistency issues and he'd be the best midfielder ever. I use that word because it is the best word for it. As fitting as to say Rashford is inconsistent, world class in moments yes, general level is fluctuating from great to awful, depending. You can line up excuses about these types of players like are they mismanaged, whats their best position, etc. but either way those questions comes from inconsistency no matter whats the cause for it.
Thread is rightly dead, not much to discuss about his injury until its done, so probably okey that we went a little off topic here. Also, as a disclaimer I do think De Bruyne is getting hyped for his moments in the same way as Pogba and definitely not criticised to the same extent. I also found Hazard a bit overrated, in a similar way, in that he had established this image so every time he did something amazing he was the best player in the league, and in periods he didn't contribute much, nobody talked about him. Next time he did something, he was the best. That is not the way it is with Pogba, always in the limelight for both the good and the bad.
I think this is fair. Regarding McTominay, I don’t think that I am necessarily doing the same with him. My issue is with the speaking of him as a top young talent. I see him as an ordinary one. We can surely admit that it is easier to find a player with limited talent who will ‘give everything’ than it is to find a Pogba. That’s why Pogba is, and has always been, in the bracket of a special talent, and Scott isn’t. Yes, he’s younger. Pogba was also 22 once - and he was miles better then too. The speaking of ‘Captain McTominay, build a team around him, one of the best in the league’ and the rest of it is what i has issue with.

I used to think he was a ‘nothing’ player. I don’t think that anymore, he has ‘something’. That something to me is presence and willingness. It will do for now, but I just want to be on record from now as saying it isn’t enough, in my opinion.

Everything is you have said about Pogba in this post I agree with. I just think it’s a shame how ‘disliked’ he seems to be by football observers in this country. Enjoy him. Of course, if you don’t want to, then there will always be a loss of possession you can point to. Even the off the ball stuff you speak of, he’s no Ozil off the ball, and I think the label of ‘lazy’ to him is a bit insulting and possible even something else. I see Pogba put in plenty of graft too. It’s just that every time he does it, the commentator will say something like ‘THIS is what we want to see from Pogba’ (over and over again), and on the odd occasion a man runs off him, then ‘THAT is what we ALWAYS see from Pogba’. Others who they seemingly like more do not get scrutinised as much. And yes, Liverpool’s midfielders run more than him. Why not talk about what Pogba does that they can’t for a change? England wants Pogba to be Kanté, Scholes and Zidane in one every week and nothing else will do for them. Whereas Scott, for example, is fine just TRYING to be Kanté, and we can accept that he can’t pass a football, Pogba is there to do that for him, but then make him out to be a victim if we say he’s there to do Pogba’s running (he’s not by the way, Pogba does his own).
 

DanClancy

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Pogba works harder and tracks back a shit ton more than Redcafe favourite Martial.
Plenty of examples where he switches off and an opponent drifts in behind him.

Comparing him to Martial is just ridiculous.
 

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Oct 14, 2019
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My view on Pogba is that he is simply too inconsistent to be a great player. Sure, he has all the fundamentals but he does not utilise them consistently which is why people doubt him. At this point, I do not see things really improving as he is 27 in March. From a financial prespective he should really be sold in the Summer as after than his value is just going to plummet. Obviously, he needs to be replaced and there are big questions over whether Woody can do this, however when you're talking about £100m in fees that could potentially drop by more than half if you do not cash in earlier then I think he has to be sold.
 
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Judas

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Our best player is a big part of the problem :lol: state of this place.

The problem with Pogba is actually the fact most people didn't watch him at Juventus and he's not the player they invented in their heads.
 

EwanI Ted

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Our best player is a big part of the problem :lol: state of this place.

The problem with Pogba is actually the fact most people didn't watch him at Juventus and he's not the player they invented in their heads.
That has been a problem from the outset. He was always a moments player rather than someone who dominated a game from start to finish. Which was perfect in the well oiled machine that was that Juve midfield, but less so in our team which has been patchy at best since he arrived.
 

wolvored

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I think he will see the season out and move for about £90-100 million, or a player plus money swap. I think his top value and the fact he will only have a year left on his contract will dictate that. Its obvious he isnt going to sign again as he wants to win the big trophies and we are a long way away from that.
 

Judas

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I personally won't even class him as a disappointment when he leaves, its the rest of the squad that has been a disappointment, we've just been managed horribly for years on and off the pitch.