Yeah, no arguments there JP. Albeit, FSG also did well recruiting Rodgers (I think it was FSG), which sort of says that they at least had an idea of the type of manager/football they wanted to pursue. But yeah, Klopp's been a game changer for them, FFS.
The “Ole doesn’t have the players to work with” myth
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
No we could afford to buy £300M worth of players every year if we didnt have parasites bleeding the club dry. Thats not Oles fault.
I agree
The difference between Ole & Wilder yesterday is that one manager is getting the absolute most out of his side consisting of players playing in the Championship and League One a few years back through excellent coaching and tactics into playing at their best, the other manager has a side playing yesterday as if they were a bunch of strangers and looked like they haven't played together before. Ole was spared yesterday because for a 15 min spell out of the 90 some the players showed glimpses of what they capable of.
Coaching and tactics are just not working at Utd.
The cost of the Sheffield Utd team combined is approx £18m, less than the cost of Fred's left leg according to the Mail we are still paying Sanchez more money per week than the whole Sheff Utd squad put together.
Only difference between OGS and Moyes is an injury time tap in.
Hire shite, get shite. What exactly makes OGS better than the lads coaching Sunday League sides?
Hire shite, get shite. What exactly makes OGS better than the lads coaching Sunday League sides?
That is the point really, a manager can make a side play much better than the perceived worth of individual squad players, Sheffield are coached very well and have a manager who actually coaches tactics.
I don't think that it's our issue. I think that our issues come from two simple thing, first our board seems to be extremely naive, take someones like Mourinho or LVG they are both extremely arrogant and see themselves as demigods, they are both in my opinion brilliant head coaches but you need to keep them in checks and give them what they need and not what they want. Our board mentality has been built around SAF and what he needed was already in place when they all got their jobs, they didn't have to tweak and optimize it for the manager and SAF happened to be humble and experienced enough in the role of manager to know what he could and couldn't do by himself, I don't think that the board knows how to create a sport structure. Our board seem to think that you can just give the keys to the football side to a head coach and he will become a manager in the mold of SAF, while Klopp got the keys of Liverpool and asked to be helped by a DOF.
I didn't say it was his fault.
No club can afford 300m worth of players every year.
Well yeah, they did think that with Moyes, and then also seemed to think that the solution to anything was hiring a top manager even if he'll be at loggerheads with the other people at the club. Now the solution is to have a transfer board and a manager who "gets the club".
I'm fine with the fact that the club at least now seem to have an idea what they want, but they still need a top top manager to make it a success, something they and many fans seem to disagree on, they think someone like Ole will just be the next SAF because he gets it.
City succeeded because they identified a manager, brought in a man to ease the way and start getting the right type of player in and even brought in a "temp" manager to fill the gap who had a similar football idea whilst they waited patiently to get their man. It was a perfect long term plan.
Our plans do a full 180 every year or 2.
To be fair, Ole didn't have a strong midfield like Frank Lampard and Pep Guardiola does, if they had our midfield, it would cause many problems because our ball retention and ability to play under pressure and reading of the games are poor, they'd lose more games.
If Ole had a strong midfield and able to find a way to lose, I'd be questioning him.
If Ole had a strong midfield and able to find a way to lose, I'd be questioning him.
You’re a very angry man Ramshock, and you seem to be failing to grasp the point of the thread entirely.
The form of Sheffield United isn’t being ignored, it’s part of the point.
None of this is being based off one game.
I think part of the clubs problem is that they seem to think one long term manager is the solution. This is a load of shit.
The manager at big clubs is nothing more than a cog in a well oiled machine. When that cog goes a bit rusty, there's nothing wrong with replacing him - whether that's in a year, 2 years or 5 years time.
He's so angry that he ranted and called us all cnuts, then when I quoted him and called myself one of the cnuts, he got so fecking angry he went on another rant about who the feck am I to call a club legend a cnut.
Bloke is frothing at the mouth so much he can't even pause long enough to read a post correctly.
As far as I know resource allocation is his responsibility. It was argued that focusing on the midfield instead of splashing 80m on a CB was a better idea but he still spent 80m on Maguire and 50 on AWB. I don't think that an upgrade from Smalling to Maguire was worthy of 80m and I don't think that it was a priority, AWB I could understand we lacked number and quality but 50m was a steep fee. So in my opinion if we question the current state of the squad, we have to question the way we allocated our resources this summer.
William's scored the first the left back
There are more differences. Another is that Chris Wilder has had three full seasons, as opposed to a half, to drill a playing style into his squad, and six windows rather than one for building a squad fitting his football.
By that, not unlike David Wagner with Huddersfield, he’s been able to build a well oiled and tough machine good enough to draw away to Chelsea and Spurs, beat Arsenal and unluckily lose an even game against Liverpool.
On paper, this was an even game before kick off, for anyone who knew their football instead of simply counting transfer fees.
Chris Wilder has done a brilliant job with making a combative team, it will be interesting to see if he can surpass managers like Wagner in making it last longer, or being able to do more also with teams expected to have more tricks in their bag.
Our team isnt well coached. We don't get the fundamentals right. Forget the extravagant free flowing performances, im talking about basics that can make or break you.
I don't think we will sack Ole, but i just wish we'd be ruthless and just get Poch in now.
He took a fair chance, and he hasn't been able to deliver. Its only a matter of time now.
I don't think we will sack Ole, but i just wish we'd be ruthless and just get Poch in now.
He took a fair chance, and he hasn't been able to deliver. Its only a matter of time now.
I don't think this is necessarily what's being said exactly, not by the OP and not by those agreeing with him. I don't think the problems at United are currently being caused by Solskjaer alone (things won't change for the better until the Glazers and Woodward leave) but you could be doing a bit better with a proper coach in charge. It's one thing for United's form to be inconsistent because your squad is top-six quality at best and mid-table at worst - and that's without mentioning how threadbare it's been allowed to get. But the thing is, you played a newly promoted side last night whose team was largely comprised of Championship-quality players and yet the only surprise was that you scored three goals. I think Solskjaer deserves credit for going to 4-1-5 and getting you back from 2-0 down, but he only temporarily navigated himself out a cul-de-sac he'd driven himself into. It wasn't a surprise to watch his plan fall to bits inside ten minutes, it wasn't a surprise to see Sheffield United were up for a contest United didn't fancy, and it wasn't a surprise when they managed to draw the game level once United had something to protect. When those sorts of things feel more like formalities than mistakes then the finger has to be pointed at the manager. Right now United are a club who need their cracks papering over while they get their house in order, and I don't think Solskjaer's capable of doing that.
Another difference between Wilder and Ole is that Wilder has had three years to build his team and Ole has had since the summer.
Ole has had since December 2018, not this summer. And managers rarely require 11 months to instill their philosophy in a team. And the majority of Sheffield players have been at the club for less than two years.
Imagine if Wilder had 150 million pounds to spend too...
Plenty of managers you can see it within a few weeks, if we're honest, with players of less talent.
Seriously. Can you imagine if managers needed years to simply get their players on the same page, it takes weeks for pretty much all top league managers whether they manage Man City or Angers. And it's a lie anyway, the only players that Ole has not been able to coach since day one are Maguire, Tuanzebe, AWB and James.
Frank Lampard has only had since the summer, has lost his best player and took over a team with a transfer ban. It took Frank about 3 games to have Chelsea playing the way he wants them to play. With ZERO spending.
Ole is a myth, and the myth will be shattered sooner or later. He won't be managing us next season.
Ole is a myth, and the myth will be shattered sooner or later. He won't be managing us next season.
That's still more than two years less than Wilder has had.
The philosophy is obviously there, though. It has been on display in the games against Partizan, Norwich and Brighton, and also in the second half yesterday. Fast transitions and high press, attackers utilising the channles and the width of the pitch. That's quite different from how United played under Mourinho. It's harder to execute against the better sides, and it remains to see if Ole can make the team step it up in the harder games and be more consistent.
And it's still irrelevant, Wilder has Championship caliber players, Ole has PL top 6 caliber players. Since when managers need to have 3 years or the same amount of time at the helm of a club? Wilder promoted Sheffield after one season, then he promoted them again after two season, in their respective contexts these two managers are on different galaxies.
You cannot say that with all the injuries we have. Most of our midfield players are injured and the ones available are not the ones with huge potential. Ole has done a lot of work in terms of mentality and stuff. We fight games out even if we are not truly in it. For 60 minutes we played dog shit football but that's because Ole thought we can counter a 3-5-2 with a 3-4-3. What he didn't realize is that Fred and Perriera had zero options to pass to upfront because all our attacking options stayed up front and out wide and we didn't have a 3 midfielder who could bridge the gap. Our football got better in the second half and we also had a chance to score the 4th but that final substitution was a poor one. Martial was hungry for a goal and would've got it had he not be taken off. He was disappointed and so were many of us. Sheffield played good football, they passed back and forth and quick on the ball.
We need to learn the traits and i guess if we keep playing a constant XI when everyone's fit, it will happen eventually.
What myth is he exactly?
Off course, he managed his best run of 15 games with Jose's squad. A squad many claimed as a mess and filled with deadwoods.
Brendan Rodgers and Marco Rose seem to be doing much better than Ole and had alot less to spend and were appointed after Ole.
Haha yes! The midfield that day was Rafael, Gibson, O’Shea & Fabio against Arsenal. The twins were the wingers that day though, not CM
Amen, when you can see that Sheffield can play good passing sequences between 3-4-5 players in tight spaces, something we haven't even close to replicating then you wonder wtf Ole and his staff are doing during training sessions
The deadwood malarky is an excuse for managers, United doesn't really have deadwood and that's why Mourinho's results in 2018/2019 weren't good enough, Ole is doing even worse. The squad is far from perfect but it was fixable this summer with better decisions and it was capable to do better last season with better coaching and management. Our managers are given to much leeway, it's always either the board or the deadwoods but rarely the lack of quality in their coaching even when they are sacked it wasn't their fault but players that downed tooled or the fabled lack of support.
Do people actually think Ole wanted to get rid of Herrera?
Quite right. However, Rodgers inherited a better, more settled squad and improved it by buying fairly cheap players like Ayoz and Teilemans. He also sold England's first choice centre half. United haven't had a settled squad since Fergie left and that wasn't the best squad we ever had even though they won the league. What is going on at Utd. will not change significantly whoever is in charge. Too much rubbish in the squad, Lindelof, JONES, Fred, Pereira, plus a few others. The manager is playing young players because there is no quality to challeng them and overall they are doing not too bad.
If we had gone out and bought the whole squad Sheffield played yesterday and played them every game I can assure you people on here would be going mad about the style of play. We would be accused of lacking class, being a workmanlike team and similar remarks. We had a bad game yesterday and we're lucky not to get a tanking but just how good are Sheffield when a badly managed pile of crap can put three goals past them in seven minutes.
I'm not, I'm always pro United whether we are talking about a player or a manager. Now the problem with Ole is that I don't like the idea of him being sacked but if it happens I won't complain because the results and his performances would justify it. I get that it's convoluted and a clear double standard because I wouldn't care if it was Mourinho or LVG but they aren't Ole, he is part of my childhood. It's one of the reasons why I don't really like the idea of the class of 92 managing the club, in football people are sacked and it sometimes end in acrimony.
Yeah but that apparently won't work for us and we need to stick with Ole even though he's a shit manager, because he knows the club and knows who to sign and knows what it takes to get us back to the level we should be at despite all him ever doing in the PL so far is getting teams relegated and making them play worse.
it's like posters can't see that if we actually did get a really good manager in (and the right type of one), they'd be able to do all those lovely things Ole is supposedly doing whilst also.. you know.. having the team playing better!
But no, apparently Ole is the only manager out there who knows how to get Man Utd where they belong, the only one because... he... played for us before.
Good post as usual @JPRouve
Didn't Ole inherit a better team than the one we're seeing right now? I believe he did. Lukaku, Smalling, Herrera, Sanchez, Fellaini all departed with Ole being happy with what he's got because the targets he wanted won't available which showed a tunnel visioned approach IMO. Was it necessary to spend £130m on a CB and RB when the team has struggled in midfield and attack for nigh on 6 years? I said at the start of the season that the plannning was flawed and he'd sacrificed the whole season due to his and the boards naivety.
I don't want Wilder at United, but the point was that there is coaches who came in after Ole and have done a better job thus far and haven't had the resources that he has been afforded.