If he has the players to work with then why all the threads about the need to strengthen, buy a horde of midfielders etc.?
The “Ole doesn’t have the players to work with” myth
- Thread starter Rado_N
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I would take any of their midfielders ahead of Fred and Pereira. They're shite and just not good enough for here.
Yeah, fair enough
There's only one United players which I adore growing up and that's David Beckham. I can see your point if this was Beckham instead of Ole. Can't stand people vilifying him but understand that it's not actually unwarranted
Ole absolutely doesn't have the players. Yesterday I wanted him to disappear but now that emotions have returned to normal -
Does Frank Lampard have a squad 6 billion times better than Ole? Absolutely
Lampard has 2 of the world's best central midfielders to call on, along with other central midfielders that are top top quality such as kovacic, barkley, Mount etc. Compare that to our midfield of Fred and Pereira? Along with a bloke who is a part time footballer, and full time diva who spends most of his time trying to get selfies with famous hip-hop stars.
Lampard kids are far closer to being fully developed than ours.
Ole inherited a mountain of shite. Jose almost purposely signed expensive shit players in the hope it would get him the sack.
Can Ole turn it around with 3 really top top signings such as a Erling, John McGinn and Kalvin Philips? I think he can
Does Frank Lampard have a squad 6 billion times better than Ole? Absolutely
Lampard has 2 of the world's best central midfielders to call on, along with other central midfielders that are top top quality such as kovacic, barkley, Mount etc. Compare that to our midfield of Fred and Pereira? Along with a bloke who is a part time footballer, and full time diva who spends most of his time trying to get selfies with famous hip-hop stars.
Lampard kids are far closer to being fully developed than ours.
Ole inherited a mountain of shite. Jose almost purposely signed expensive shit players in the hope it would get him the sack.
Can Ole turn it around with 3 really top top signings such as a Erling, John McGinn and Kalvin Philips? I think he can
I am not in Ole in camp but to even remotely suggest we have great players to choose from is a shocking statement. The likes of Periera and Jones are not even good enough to start for Norwich regularly. And then we have a 18 year old fullback and a 18 year old forward bailing us out. Our squad is the weakest since god knows how long.
Im not an angry man im just sick of most of our supporters. Dont like it then block me
We just don't have the squad for the premiership now, and need about 6 more additions. I don't know who is to blame for allowing Herrera, Fellaini, Lukaku, and Sanchez to go without replacements. Along with this we all knew that Matic is past it and Pogba doesn't want to be here.
How Ole thought we could go through a season with the bare bones of a squad is beyond me. Only one youngster has earned the right of a regular place so far. ( Williams).
Pereira,Lingard, Mata, and Fred are just not good enough. No CF and still no RW.
How Ole thought we could go through a season with the bare bones of a squad is beyond me. Only one youngster has earned the right of a regular place so far. ( Williams).
Pereira,Lingard, Mata, and Fred are just not good enough. No CF and still no RW.
None of the good ones (bigfoot, lake monsters etc). Dunno, Norwegian elves or something.
??? At some point, Ole will be responsible for Utd. Seems like for the other managers, that point was approx. 2 weeks after taking over the team.
Herrera and Fellaini were let go, Pogba, McTominay and Matic are injured. That's 5 midfielders vs none added. I think Ole is out of his depth here too but that's shocking squad management.
100%. I fail to believe he was satisfied with this squad going into the season, the midfield is bereft of real quality and we're still short in attack. That said, he's just not improved what's already there. And he's so slow to make changes. Most fans could see within 15 minutes that the formation just wasn't working and yet he waits until HT to make any changes. Had Sheff U taken their chances, we could've been out of the game by that point.
He's not good enough.
No one is saying he has the best squad to work with. We all know that we need reinforcements in Midfield.
However; getting bullied by almost every team we face away from home has nothing to do with players.
He is not managing to get the players fired up for the game, basic principles of football. Getting around the pitch.
You don't need to be a WC player to do what gone done to Jones and Perreira. They were pure and simply bullied.
@Ramshock is right to be angry due to the lack of context exhibited in a number of posts littered across this website.
Many supporters want Ole gone the very next minute. However as stated in the match thread before the match, certain posters who are big critics of the manager theorized that he chose the set of players who started the match, and they later condemned him after the match when the final whistle was blown yesterday.
Paraphrasing a Brendan Rogers quote where he said building a team is like building a plane while driving it. I chose that quote because a thread was made which asked how will the team look like by 2021/2022 season where a lot of posters did agree that the team has a clear direction but needed urgent pace to achieve its mandate.
Ole has created the strands of a workable team and with virtually all posters who are "Ole In" acknowledges that Ole might not be the one to win us the league but he will leave the team in a better state than he met it (same thing the people who want Poch to replace Ole point to when discussing his body of work at Hotspur).
Poch is the darling manager of the majority of RedCafe posters it is well understood. However, if/when ever he comes in and doesn't immediately transform the team within 12 calendar months I will be calling out the hoard of posters shouting his name presently reminding them to help him with their magic wand.
Ramshock in calling anyone who doesn't agree with him a cnut. Typical. Best off ignoring that arrogant man.I called myself a cnut because that's what YOU called anyone critiquing Ole. Get a fecking grip of yourself man.
Footballing brain... haha, go PM and let's send each other some links of the sides we've played for.
You know people have nothing to say to defend Ole's level as a manager when they start comparing him to fans on internet and say he coached while they didn't. That's the only level of football he can get above, apparently.
I agree midfield matters a lot but I mean let's not say that our midfield is not good enough to have a game against the mighty Sheffield. I mean the decision was to play two in the middle. He could have easily played Fred, Andrea's and lingard. Or even Jones or Tuanzebe at the base. Our midfield is wank but again, we've had Cleverly and Anderson starting there as well as Rafael.
Even in such a sh!tshow as yesterday we put in a tantalising show of what we "could" be like if we got it right.
Tielemans was available for decent price and there are reliably reporters who said he was available and his agent checked with Spurs and ManUtd, both didn’t make a move. We left short in few positions and that should be on Ole.
With McTominay and Pogba injuries our midfield options was very poor though, it was hard with only 1 midfielder.
We don't have a great squad but there's enough talent not to be schooled by Sheffield United for 60-70 minutes. Ole keeps messing up with tactics, he's got no vision, our injury record under him is frightening.....he's got to go.
I love the shifting of the goalposts. Apparently now even Leicester and Chelsea had de-facto, much better squads than Ole at his disposal....all this to somehow belittle what Lampard and Rodgers have done, and mitigate the criticism directed at Ole.
When Puel was sacked, Leicester had just lost 4-1 to Palace, they were 12th in the table and close to getting dragged into a relegation scrap - this is if memory serves me right. They've subsequently lost one of the best players, to us, for a world record fee for a defender.
Chelsea have lost Hazard and have a transfer ban, meaning Lampard has had to rely on youngsters, or players which haven't exactly set the world alight last season (Willian, Jorginho, Barkley, Kovacic and a few more).
The squad at United are by no means ready to challenge, and there's a still a bit of a rebuild to go, but the impact Lampard and Rodgers have had really is undeniable, IMO. There's obviously no saying in how this season is going to end for the 3 managers but the impact of good coaching and tactics is clear to see.
When Puel was sacked, Leicester had just lost 4-1 to Palace, they were 12th in the table and close to getting dragged into a relegation scrap - this is if memory serves me right. They've subsequently lost one of the best players, to us, for a world record fee for a defender.
Chelsea have lost Hazard and have a transfer ban, meaning Lampard has had to rely on youngsters, or players which haven't exactly set the world alight last season (Willian, Jorginho, Barkley, Kovacic and a few more).
The squad at United are by no means ready to challenge, and there's a still a bit of a rebuild to go, but the impact Lampard and Rodgers have had really is undeniable, IMO. There's obviously no saying in how this season is going to end for the 3 managers but the impact of good coaching and tactics is clear to see.
yes, because our squad on paper isn’t better than this.
I think he got his tactics fully wrong in the first half but credit to him, he made the right changes in the 2nd and salvaged something from the game. Fact is, the players who (particularly) let us down were Jones and Pereira. Much as I have time for them, particularly Jones, they've really no business being near a top 4 squad.
Or would anyone deny that?
Or would anyone deny that?
Spot on. Who reduced the midfield to this pathetic level? Ole. It is bleeding obvious that players are going to get injured. As you said we should have gone with a back 4 and 3 man midfield. I said from the beginning that Jones should have played in midfield. Fred and Periera are not good enough but when they get outnumbered it is fecking obvious they will make more mistakes. You do not play your two midfield players in one line. You simply cannot. They cannot play like this either as they will get tired as they are getting out numbered and they will make mistakes. This is not rocket science. So how on Earth are they going to support our strikers if they cannot get up the field?
I hate to say this but Ole has taken us to levels not even taken by Moyes. Yes Moyes had a better team but Ole had a better team when he took over and he destroyed that team. Someone else mentioned Tielemans. His fee was 40 million. The Turkish CB who is now playing for Leicester cost 24 million. Both of them are playing much better than anyone else in the team. Leicester sold us Maguire for 80. They still had a few million left from the sale of Maguire. Ole Gunnar thinks he can get world class players. No world class player is going to come to play in a mid table side and to be coached by a coach like him.
Think of the players themselves. They know that they are getting beaten by teams that are much smaller than them and should not get beaten. As a player you look at the coach to sort things out. These are not world class players like Ronaldo or Rooney who has won everything. They are not going to question the tactics though they know the tactics are wrong. Fred and Periera know that they are out numbered in midfield and they try too hard to compensate for that. When you are knackered and you try too hard, then you make mistakes. It is very well to blame then but at the end of the day the buck stops with the man who started on the wrong plan and on the losing plan.
Get a decent manager and he will get a different system that will get players like Fred and Pereira to play much better. You need to make the best use of the players available to you. Right now he is all talking about the United way and how we came back etc. Bullshit. We came back and then he also lost the game for us. Yes I know we draw but it feels like a lost game.
The quicker he goes the better is it for the club. I do not think Poch is the man however.
Young, Pereira, Lingard, Jones, Mata have all gotten new deals under Solskjaer. They'll be here next season and the season after that because Solskjaer decided so. The young ones get minutes, despite the team lacking in leadership, because the manager willed it so. This is the team he wanted to have, more or less. The lucrative contracts Martial and Rashford got indicate that no serious reinforcements should be expected in the attack. We're looking at Longstaff in for Matic, a #10 for next season and Rice in for Pogba. How many things do you think will change? The funny part is that he got the job based on the performances of a team that he didn't deem as good enough and decided to rip it apart. So, what happens if he doesn't get all the players he wants next summer too? Woodward will not get any more competent at transfer dealings for starters. How much time should Solskjaer get? Maybe until mankind colonizes Mars?
We let a number of players go who weren't replaced man-for-man with ready-made, experienced (enough) counterparts or undoubted grand-scale talents - this is obvious, nobody disagrees with it, presumably. But that isn't shocking squad management in itself.
We could - simply - take Ole's own word for it: the ones he wanted weren't attainable, and he wasn't desperate to bring in replacements for the sake of it. That was always going to mean being extremely vulnerable to injuries. Our best - presumed - XI isn't terrible and the OP would have a very good point if we had been outplayed (whatever that actually means) by Sheffield United fielding a settled, ideal (under the circumstances) XI.
That didn't happen, though. As soon as Fred and McTominay seemed to have formed some kind of half-decent understanding in the middle of the park, the latter gets injured - and in a clearly threadbare squad, that's a significant factor: Pereira was shite yesterday, looked completely out of his depth (as he has on several occasions, sadly).
Players like Williams, Greenwood and Tuanzebe are bound to blow hot and cold for a good while yet. And players like Lingard, Jones and Pereira aren't good enough as anything but squad players, if that (and certainly not as difference makers, or reliable cogs in tricky matches).
We don't have anything close to the depth required to field an XI at all times which should deal easily with the likes of Sheffield United (a well drilled, in-form side). Is that "on Ole", as some keep saying? For not bringing in more players over the summer? Again, that depends entirely on what he's actually supposed to do at this point in time. And people will make their own assumptions about that, it seems. "Rebuilding doesn't mean lingering round the middle of the table". Says the random Internet fan. What Ole's employers expect him to achieve, in terms of sheer results, this season remains a different matter altogether. And it's their expectations which determine whether going into the season with an obviously threadbare/vulnerable squad is incompetence/hubris/insanity - or not.
We could - simply - take Ole's own word for it: the ones he wanted weren't attainable, and he wasn't desperate to bring in replacements for the sake of it. That was always going to mean being extremely vulnerable to injuries. Our best - presumed - XI isn't terrible and the OP would have a very good point if we had been outplayed (whatever that actually means) by Sheffield United fielding a settled, ideal (under the circumstances) XI.
That didn't happen, though. As soon as Fred and McTominay seemed to have formed some kind of half-decent understanding in the middle of the park, the latter gets injured - and in a clearly threadbare squad, that's a significant factor: Pereira was shite yesterday, looked completely out of his depth (as he has on several occasions, sadly).
Players like Williams, Greenwood and Tuanzebe are bound to blow hot and cold for a good while yet. And players like Lingard, Jones and Pereira aren't good enough as anything but squad players, if that (and certainly not as difference makers, or reliable cogs in tricky matches).
We don't have anything close to the depth required to field an XI at all times which should deal easily with the likes of Sheffield United (a well drilled, in-form side). Is that "on Ole", as some keep saying? For not bringing in more players over the summer? Again, that depends entirely on what he's actually supposed to do at this point in time. And people will make their own assumptions about that, it seems. "Rebuilding doesn't mean lingering round the middle of the table". Says the random Internet fan. What Ole's employers expect him to achieve, in terms of sheer results, this season remains a different matter altogether. And it's their expectations which determine whether going into the season with an obviously threadbare/vulnerable squad is incompetence/hubris/insanity - or not.
Agree with all of that buddy.
Of course, we do. When we decided to put our own attacking weapons to good use by employing tactics which aimed to hit Wilder's 352 where it hurts the most defensively, we tore them to shreds for 20 minutes. They were looking for a hole to hide into and they couldn't find it. The problem was that for the vast majority of the game our goal was to simply negate them by turning the game into a one-goal contest. It cost us yesterday, it has cost us against Bournemouth, Southampton, WHU and Newcastle and it has led to some drab performances in Europe but, fortunately, the opposition at this stage in the EL can't hurt us. This is very valid criticism about our tactics and the way we approach games in which we expect to face some difficulties but we know that we should be winning more often than not. You can't simply wave it away and say we'll see what we'll do in the next transfer window. Long-term planning is fine but part of the reason a manager is being paid the big bucks is to find solutions to day-to-day problems that occur.
Furthermore, which manager gets all his wishes granted every summer? An injury crisis is always something to worry about when you make your plans in pre-season. And we knew that we were going to have Thursday night football. Again, the criticism is about how these predicaments are being dealt with. For instance, Martial's injury forced a monumental merry-go-round in our attacking roles which, subsequently, led to an underwhelming period of performances for both Rashford and James. It took us about a month to come up with the 352 which freed the aforementioned players up a bit. Threadbare midfield with both Pogba and McT missing? Understandable, but don't change the role of the one midfielder you have available. Fred will never be good enough as the deepest midfielder. Work during the break with Tuanzebe or Garner (or even Matic for just one game) because it could have allowed you to play Fred and Pereira in their natural roles. Thin squad? Absolutely. But show us that you have thought about it beforehand and you're not just trying to find water in the middle of the desert while you're blindfolded too.
Which brings me to the final point. Nobody should get that much of a leeway. When it's rumoured that Longstaff and Rice are your choices in the midfield, you can't convince me that you couldn't find a midfielder to simply hold in front of the back-four. After all, i could take his word for it and believe that he was speaking the truth when he said that he had the team he wanted. When you tell me that you want Dybala but he's not attainable, i will be more willing to believe you if you don't go on and hand Mata, Pereira and Lingard new deals. Because when you do it, you signal that you're content with what you've got and that the rebuilding job is going to take about half a decade (if we keep renewing the dross because the right players aren't available). I believe these are valid concerns too.
Anyway, i enjoy reading your posts. They're very well written and well thought. But if you read this one again you'll see that you're giving Solskjaer a free pass for what is any manager's prime concerns: Working out his options and his tactics beforehand in the case of an injury crisis or two games p/w situations. I can forgive a lot of things in the name of long-term planning but not such abysmal results and performances. And my biggest concern is that if the high echelons decide to write the season completely off by removing any kind of standards, it will set a very bad precedent. We must have something to measure ourselves against, otherwise, Solskjaer's tenure will do more bad than good in the end despite his noble intentions.
What's this board you're talking about? The Glazers don't have a scooby about football/soccer, and there's Ed....
I really think two proper world class center midfielders will fix all of the problems with the team with Pogba in a number 10 role.
Compare our center midfield with Chelsea's, City's and Liverpool's and its pathetic to say the least.
Also need to shift the 10 or 11 deadwood players and get in some squad players.
Which center midfielders do we sign though? This should have been a priority in the summer.
Compare our center midfield with Chelsea's, City's and Liverpool's and its pathetic to say the least.
Also need to shift the 10 or 11 deadwood players and get in some squad players.
Which center midfielders do we sign though? This should have been a priority in the summer.
That's the point and there are other members on that board but they are not actually helpful when it comes to football.
He may have inherited a better team than we have now but he has not been totally responsible for comings and goings.
For example
1) Herrera left because he was not offered an improved contract
2) Lukaku was looking for a way out the moment he started to lose his almost automatic starting spot. Don't forget he was always being slagged off on here for his lack of touch and some bad attempts at finishing. I do however think he should have been kept until a replacement was brought in.
3) Fred had already been purchased when Ole arrived and has improved since then. Still crap though.
4) Whilst midfield is and has been rubbish for years why is it that all the blame lies at Ole's feet after 3 previous managers failed to address the situation.
5) Buying the two defenders was necessary, should have been three actually, and no one can tell me they have not been good for the team. We still have guys like Lindelof, Jones, Young, injury prone Shaw and others stinking the place out but that is the fault of poor buys by previous managers, not addressing the situation and buying poor players.
6)Sanchez has rarely showed he has the appetite for playing for playing at Utd although I was one of the many who were excited when he joined.
7) Smalling has not been a reliable centre back for some time now but I wish him well in his career in Italy.
8) Fellaini was a player I initially liked but at the end he was very limited in his ability to impress matches other than scoring the odd goal from long punts upfield. Is he someone we want to watch now?
9) Ole did not bring Pogaba back to Utd but he too has continued his bad form from under Morhinho and now appears to be in hiding.
What I find really odd is that we have had three managers of greater experience over the last seven years but all have failed to a greater or lesser extent. The reasons for that are many and varied but it appears Ole is trying something different and still too many are expecting instant results. It appears some people will continue to bang their heads against a brick wall until it crumbles and find patience a distasteful word.
I haven't got a clue if Ole will get it right but I am willing to give him a chance for the time being. I will however address the blame to him if he does not make overall progress by the end of the season because he is the manager. I do however feel for him because it already appears he is not going to be making any purchases in January and continuing with the present squad under the present board could be ruinous for him. Would love to here what Fergie and Woodward were arguing about yesterday!!!!!!
That's fair enough.
What philosophy and what the feck does that have to do with playing Fred and Pereira as a midfield two against Sheff's three and ceding the midfield battle to the opposition? His initial tactical setup was beyond stupid and having to wait until halftime to make an adjustment is criminal. In the first half, we were COMPLETELY dominated. Possession, shots, patterns of play, I don't think we even had a shot on goal. The space that Fred and Pereira were supposed to cover was enormous, they were always outmatched in the middle of the park. The three attackers were completely cutoff from the phase of play and didn't even see the ball. The defenders were in panic mode anytime they had the ball and they were unclear in their positioning and when to step out and what not. The start of the second was much the same. Only after 2-0, did the team get any urgency whatsoever. The fact that we scored 3 in 7 minutes was a miracle, most likely that game would have ended in another defeat.
Yes, but we have to believe that isn't the case.
By which I mean - it doesn't actually make any sense that they would do. As I keep saying, the owners have spent an awful lot of money on players and wages since Fergie retired. Which indicates that they aren't satisfied to spend an absolute minimum and simply milk the "brand" for all it's worth. They have been incompetent in the extreme - so far: wasted an obscene amount, having no identifiable plan, replacing managers according to a pattern which makes no logical sense. But they have spent money on the monstrosity.
The hope is that they have now come around to the idea that a radically different approach is needed.
And if that "radically different approach" is real, but 100% tied up to whatever Ole G. Solskjaer happens to be doing - we might as well call it "not radically different" and dismiss it as another short-term, scatter-gun style decision.
In short, the hope would be that if Ole brings in a new profile of signing, and keeps offering minutes to promising academy players (both of which he has done so far), BUT fails to deliver in terms of what happens on the pitch - he will indeed be sacked, and replaced by someone who will continue to adhere to the new approach but who will also be a significantly better manager, as such.
Hope, I'm afraid, is the key word. Not certainty. And - as I've said before - it would be much easier to believe in the reality of this scenario if we had already announced appointments on the "football side" of a certain kind beyond the manager, that is someone with actual authority (a DOF figure, in short).
Slabhead has much, really really much to still do to be considered the best thing to happen this season.
It's unbelievable. It's not like most of pundits and 90% of the CAF were convinced that we'd easily get Top4 ahead of Chelsea and Arsenal and contend with Spurs for 3. Most people had written Chelsea off (novice manger, transfer ban, best player sold), and Leicester was in no one's radar to finish top 6. Make no mistake, we're massively underperforming and the current management team bears a huge part of it
Yeah I’d agree with that. Most people would have settled for top 4, and from what I recall, even a 5th place finish if things were heading in the right direction - I.e. we were playing some good football and the signs of progress were clear.
Now all of a sudden, we’d be lucky to finish mid table because Ole has a squad full of Championship players at his disposal (wee bit hyperbolic). It’s really odd how the narrative has changed to defend an underperforming team/manager.
I’d love it if I was proven wrong and Ole ends up successful here. I’m sure we all would, because he’s a United legend but I’m just not seeing it.
You saw yesterday that the players have some talent when we exploded for that 10 minute period and cut through Sheffield, the issue isn't the attitude despite Neville's insinuations on commentary where he constantly moaned about the lack of movement, does he really believe Martial, Rashford and James all were static because they didn't care? It's the lack of top level coaching, and we only got a point yesterday because some raw talent tipped the balance, not through any managerial nous.
We all love Ole but this is only ending one way. It's not like under Mourinho where his toxic personality was ruining any enjoyment of United as Ole is very likable, but I think you'd have to be deluded at this point to think this regime is going anywhere but the same direction as the Titanic.
We all love Ole but this is only ending one way. It's not like under Mourinho where his toxic personality was ruining any enjoyment of United as Ole is very likable, but I think you'd have to be deluded at this point to think this regime is going anywhere but the same direction as the Titanic.
There is no way he is going to be successful simply because he has no clue. Are you telling me that 9 international players do not know how to take a corner for 6 months at least? That they cannot work out a variation that they are practicing day in and day out? Put half of CAF who can kick a ball properly and head a ball and they would do a better job on the corners at least.
It shows that we are not practicing this at all. We have a players like Maguire, McTominay. Lindelof, Pogba and even Jones and Rojo and even AWB who can head a ball. Yet we never, even seem to get a near post or any variations. I have really no idea what they do on the training ground. We don't even seem pull one back on the corners for a long range shoot. It is always into the keeper's hand( we do not even try to block him) or to the far post looking for Maguire. A Sunday pub team would organise a better set piece.
And people are saying Ole is going to take us forward? Don't be ruddy ridiculous.
It shows that we are not practicing this at all. We have a players like Maguire, McTominay. Lindelof, Pogba and even Jones and Rojo and even AWB who can head a ball. Yet we never, even seem to get a near post or any variations. I have really no idea what they do on the training ground. We don't even seem pull one back on the corners for a long range shoot. It is always into the keeper's hand( we do not even try to block him) or to the far post looking for Maguire. A Sunday pub team would organise a better set piece.
And people are saying Ole is going to take us forward? Don't be ruddy ridiculous.
We can only take him at his word, and that is what he says. So he should be judged accordingly on that.