- Joined
- Jan 22, 2018
- Messages
- 383
If he has the players to work with then why all the threads about the need to strengthen, buy a horde of midfielders etc.?
I would take any of their midfielders ahead of Fred and Pereira. They're shite and just not good enough for here.It's nonsense.
There's not a single Sheffield United player would get into this United line up, even with the injuries we have. But they are well coached. That's the difference. I don't see Ole being able to make the team play like that.
Yeah, fair enoughI'm not, I'm always pro United whether we are talking about a player or a manager. Now the problem with Ole is that I don't like the idea of him being sacked but if it happens I won't complain because the results and his performances would justify it. I get that it's convoluted and a clear double standard because I wouldn't care if it was Mourinho or LVG but they aren't Ole, he is part of my childhood. It's one of the reasons why I don't really like the idea of the class of 92 managing the club, in football people are sacked and it sometimes end in acrimony.
Im not an angry man im just sick of most of our supporters. Dont like it then block meYou’re a very angry man Ramshock, and you seem to be failing to grasp the point of the thread entirely.
The form of Sheffield United isn’t being ignored, it’s part of the point.
None of this is being based off one game.
What myth is he exactly?
??? At some point, Ole will be responsible for Utd. Seems like for the other managers, that point was approx. 2 weeks after taking over the team.It is not myth. It's a fact. Mourinho is mostly to blame for it.
Herrera and Fellaini were let go, Pogba, McTominay and Matic are injured. That's 5 midfielders vs none added. I think Ole is out of his depth here too but that's shocking squad management.If he has the players to work with then why all the threads about the need to strengthen, buy a horde of midfielders etc.?
100%. I fail to believe he was satisfied with this squad going into the season, the midfield is bereft of real quality and we're still short in attack. That said, he's just not improved what's already there. And he's so slow to make changes. Most fans could see within 15 minutes that the formation just wasn't working and yet he waits until HT to make any changes. Had Sheff U taken their chances, we could've been out of the game by that point.Our squad is not the best, but a better manager would without a doubt make better use of it than Ole is, and he wouldn't need over a year to do so. It's just indisputable at this point.
No one is saying he has the best squad to work with. We all know that we need reinforcements in Midfield.If he has the players to work with then why all the threads about the need to strengthen, buy a horde of midfielders etc.?
@Ramshock is right to be angry due to the lack of context exhibited in a number of posts littered across this website.You’re a very angry man Ramshock, and you seem to be failing to grasp the point of the thread entirely.
The form of Sheffield United isn’t being ignored, it’s part of the point.
None of this is being based off one game.
Ramshock in calling anyone who doesn't agree with him a cnut. Typical. Best off ignoring that arrogant man.I called myself a cnut because that's what YOU called anyone critiquing Ole. Get a fecking grip of yourself man.
Footballing brain... haha, go PM and let's send each other some links of the sides we've played for.
I agree midfield matters a lot but I mean let's not say that our midfield is not good enough to have a game against the mighty Sheffield. I mean the decision was to play two in the middle. He could have easily played Fred, Andrea's and lingard. Or even Jones or Tuanzebe at the base. Our midfield is wank but again, we've had Cleverly and Anderson starting there as well as Rafael.Would a midfield 3 of mctominay, Andreas and Fred start ahead of ndidi, Madison and Tieleman? You seem to forget the importance of the midfield my friend
Tielemans was available for decent price and there are reliably reporters who said he was available and his agent checked with Spurs and ManUtd, both didn’t make a move. We left short in few positions and that should be on Ole.Would a midfield 3 of mctominay, Andreas and Fred start ahead of ndidi, Madison and Tieleman? You seem to forget the importance of the midfield my friend
yes, because our squad on paper isn’t better than this.I read a post in another Ole thread that stated they'd be happy giving Ole time until the end of the season, as long as we end up on a top half table finish. I mean, has our standards really dropped this low now?
Spot on. Who reduced the midfield to this pathetic level? Ole. It is bleeding obvious that players are going to get injured. As you said we should have gone with a back 4 and 3 man midfield. I said from the beginning that Jones should have played in midfield. Fred and Periera are not good enough but when they get outnumbered it is fecking obvious they will make more mistakes. You do not play your two midfield players in one line. You simply cannot. They cannot play like this either as they will get tired as they are getting out numbered and they will make mistakes. This is not rocket science. So how on Earth are they going to support our strikers if they cannot get up the field?I agree midfield matters a lot but I mean let's not say that our midfield is not good enough to have a game against the mighty Sheffield. I mean the decision was to play two in the middle. He could have easily played Fred, Andrea's and lingard. Or even Jones or Tuanzebe at the base. Our midfield is wank but again, we've had Cleverly and Anderson starting there as well as Rafael.
Young, Pereira, Lingard, Jones, Mata have all gotten new deals under Solskjaer. They'll be here next season and the season after that because Solskjaer decided so. The young ones get minutes, despite the team lacking in leadership, because the manager willed it so. This is the team he wanted to have, more or less. The lucrative contracts Martial and Rashford got indicate that no serious reinforcements should be expected in the attack. We're looking at Longstaff in for Matic, a #10 for next season and Rice in for Pogba. How many things do you think will change? The funny part is that he got the job based on the performances of a team that he didn't deem as good enough and decided to rip it apart. So, what happens if he doesn't get all the players he wants next summer too? Woodward will not get any more competent at transfer dealings for starters. How much time should Solskjaer get? Maybe until mankind colonizes Mars?yes, because our squad on paper isn’t better than this.
Agree with all of that buddy.Spot on. Who reduced the midfield to this pathetic level? Ole. It is bleeding obvious that players are going to get injured. As you said we should have gone with a back 4 and 3 man midfield. I said from the beginning that Jones should have played in midfield. Fred and Periera are not good enough but when they get outnumbered it is fecking obvious they will make more mistakes. You do not play your two midfield players in one line. You simply cannot. They cannot play like this either as they will get tired as they are getting out numbered and they will make mistakes. This is not rocket science. So how on Earth are they going to support our strikers if they cannot get up the field?
I hate to say this but Ole has taken us to levels not even taken by Moyes. Yes Moyes had a better team but Ole had a better team when he took over and he destroyed that team. Someone else mentioned Tielemans. His fee was 40 million. The Turkish CB who is now playing for Leicester cost 24 million. Both of them are playing much better than anyone else in the team. Leicester sold us Maguire for 80. They still had a few million left from the sale of Maguire. Ole Gunnar thinks he can get world class players. No world class player is going to come to play in a mid table side and to be coached by a coach like him.
Think of the players themselves. They know that they are getting beaten by teams that are much smaller than them and should not get beaten. As a player you look at the coach to sort things out. These are not world class players like Ronaldo or Rooney who has won everything. They are not going to question the tactics though they know the tactics are wrong. Fred and Periera know that they are out numbered in midfield and they try too hard to compensate for that. When you are knackered and you try too hard, then you make mistakes. It is very well to blame then but at the end of the day the buck stops with the man who started on the wrong plan and on the losing plan.
Get a decent manager and he will get a different system that will get players like Fred and Pereira to play much better. You need to make the best use of the players available to you. Right now he is all talking about the United way and how we came back etc. Bullshit. We came back and then he also lost the game for us. Yes I know we draw but it feels like a lost game.
The quicker he goes the better is it for the club. I do not think Poch is the man however.
Of course, we do. When we decided to put our own attacking weapons to good use by employing tactics which aimed to hit Wilder's 352 where it hurts the most defensively, we tore them to shreds for 20 minutes. They were looking for a hole to hide into and they couldn't find it. The problem was that for the vast majority of the game our goal was to simply negate them by turning the game into a one-goal contest. It cost us yesterday, it has cost us against Bournemouth, Southampton, WHU and Newcastle and it has led to some drab performances in Europe but, fortunately, the opposition at this stage in the EL can't hurt us. This is very valid criticism about our tactics and the way we approach games in which we expect to face some difficulties but we know that we should be winning more often than not. You can't simply wave it away and say we'll see what we'll do in the next transfer window. Long-term planning is fine but part of the reason a manager is being paid the big bucks is to find solutions to day-to-day problems that occur.We let a number of players go who weren't replaced man-for-man with ready-made, experienced (enough) counterparts or undoubted grand-scale talents - this is obvious, nobody disagrees with it, presumably. But that isn't shocking squad management in itself.
We could - simply - take Ole's own word for it: the ones he wanted weren't attainable, and he wasn't desperate to bring in replacements for the sake of it. That was always going to mean being extremely vulnerable to injuries. Our best - presumed - XI isn't terrible and the OP would have a very good point if we had been outplayed (whatever that actually means) by Sheffield United fielding a settled, ideal (under the circumstances) XI.
That didn't happen, though. As soon as Fred and McTominay seemed to have formed some kind of half-decent understanding in the middle of the park, the latter gets injured - and in a clearly threadbare squad, that's a significant factor: Pereira was shite yesterday, looked completely out of his depth (as he has on several occasions, sadly).
Players like Williams, Greenwood and Tuanzebe are bound to blow hot and cold for a good while yet. And players like Lingard, Jones and Pereira aren't good enough as anything but squad players, if that (and certainly not as difference makers, or reliable cogs in tricky matches).
We don't have anything close to the depth required to field an XI at all times which should deal easily with the likes of Sheffield United (a well drilled, in-form side). Is that "on Ole", as some keep saying? For not bringing in more players over the summer? Again, that depends entirely on what he's actually supposed to do at this point in time. And people will make their own assumptions about that, it seems. "Rebuilding doesn't mean lingering round the middle of the table". Says the random Internet fan. What Ole's employers expect him to achieve, in terms of sheer results, this season remains a different matter altogether. And it's their expectations which determine whether going into the season with an obviously threadbare/vulnerable squad is incompetence/hubris/insanity - or not.
What's this board you're talking about? The Glazers don't have a scooby about football/soccer, and there's Ed....I don't think that it's our issue. I think that our issues come from two simple thing, first our board seems to be extremely naive, take someones like Mourinho or LVG they are both extremely arrogant and see themselves as demigods, they are both in my opinion brilliant head coaches but you need to keep them in checks and give them what they need and not what they want. Our board mentality has been built around SAF and what he needed was already in place when they all got their jobs, they didn't have to tweak and optimize it for the manager and SAF happened to be humble and experienced enough in the role of manager to know what he could and couldn't do by himself, I don't think that the board knows how to create a sport structure. Our board seem to think that you can just give the keys to the football side to a head coach and he will become a manager in the mold of SAF, while Klopp got the keys of Liverpool and asked to be helped by a DOF.
That's the point and there are other members on that board but they are not actually helpful when it comes to football.What's this board you're talking about? The Glazers don't have a scooby about football/soccer, and there's Ed....
Didn't Ole inherit a better team than the one we're seeing right now? I believe he did. Lukaku, Smalling, Herrera, Sanchez, Fellaini all departed with Ole being happy with what he's got because the targets he wanted won't available which showed a tunnel visioned approach IMO. Was it necessary to spend £130m on a CB and RB when the team has struggled in midfield and attack for nigh on 6 years? I said at the start of the season that the plannning was flawed and he'd sacrificed the whole season due to his and the boards naivety.
I don't want Wilder at United, but the point was that there is coaches who came in after Ole and have done a better job thus far and haven't had the resources that he has been afforded.
That's fair enough.He may have inherited a better team than we have now but he has not been totally responsible for comings and goings.
For example
1) Herrera left because he was not offered an improved contract
2) Lukaku was looking for a way out the moment he started to lose his almost automatic starting spot. Don't forget he was always being slagged off on here for his lack of touch and some bad attempts at finishing. I do however think he should have been kept until a replacement was brought in.
3) Fred had already been purchased when Ole arrived and has improved since then. Still crap though.
4) Whilst midfield is and has been rubbish for years why is it that all the blame lies at Ole's feet after 3 previous managers failed to address the situation.
5) Buying the two defenders was necessary, should have been three actually, and no one can tell me they have not been good for the team. We still have guys like Lindelof, Jones, Young, injury prone Shaw and others stinking the place out but that is the fault of poor buys by previous managers, not addressing the situation and buying poor players.
6)Sanchez has rarely showed he has the appetite for playing for playing at Utd although I was one of the many who were excited when he joined.
7) Smalling has not been a reliable centre back for some time now but I wish him well in his career in Italy.
8) Fellaini was a player I initially liked but at the end he was very limited in his ability to impress matches other than scoring the odd goal from long punts upfield. Is he someone we want to watch now?
9) Ole did not bring Pogaba back to Utd but he too has continued his bad form from under Morhinho and now appears to be in hiding.
What I find really odd is that we have had three managers of greater experience over the last seven years but all have failed to a greater or lesser extent. The reasons for that are many and varied but it appears Ole is trying something different and still too many are expecting instant results. It appears some people will continue to bang their heads against a brick wall until it crumbles and find patience a distasteful word.
I haven't got a clue if Ole will get it right but I am willing to give him a chance for the time being. I will however address the blame to him if he does not make overall progress by the end of the season because he is the manager. I do however feel for him because it already appears he is not going to be making any purchases in January and continuing with the present squad under the present board could be ruinous for him. Would love to here what Fergie and Woodward were arguing about yesterday!!!!!!
What philosophy and what the feck does that have to do with playing Fred and Pereira as a midfield two against Sheff's three and ceding the midfield battle to the opposition? His initial tactical setup was beyond stupid and having to wait until halftime to make an adjustment is criminal. In the first half, we were COMPLETELY dominated. Possession, shots, patterns of play, I don't think we even had a shot on goal. The space that Fred and Pereira were supposed to cover was enormous, they were always outmatched in the middle of the park. The three attackers were completely cutoff from the phase of play and didn't even see the ball. The defenders were in panic mode anytime they had the ball and they were unclear in their positioning and when to step out and what not. The start of the second was much the same. Only after 2-0, did the team get any urgency whatsoever. The fact that we scored 3 in 7 minutes was a miracle, most likely that game would have ended in another defeat.That's still more than two years less than Wilder has had.
The philosophy is obviously there, though. It has been on display in the games against Partizan, Norwich and Brighton, and also in the second half yesterday. Fast transitions and high press, attackers utilising the channles and the width of the pitch. That's quite different from how United played under Mourinho. It's harder to execute against the better sides, and it remains to see if Ole can make the team step it up in the harder games and be more consistent.
Yes, but we have to believe that isn't the case.And my biggest concern is that if the high echelons decide to write the season completely off by removing any kind of standards, it will set a very bad precedent.
Slabhead has much, really really much to still do to be considered the best thing to happen this season.Because this one time, we didn't sign players just because he is a **** FM favorite player like Rojo, Blind, Mikhitaryan or short term buys like Matic. Heck we didn't even go for big names like we previously did.
Ironically, his signings is the best thing to happen so far this season, and when he said he is going to replace it, he sure as hell going to replace them, but under some difficult circumstances, there are lot of stuffs we didn't know behind the scene.
The replacements will come, and that is depending on his time here.
It's unbelievable. It's not like most of pundits and 90% of the CAF were convinced that we'd easily get Top4 ahead of Chelsea and Arsenal and contend with Spurs for 3. Most people had written Chelsea off (novice manger, transfer ban, best player sold), and Leicester was in no one's radar to finish top 6. Make no mistake, we're massively underperforming and the current management team bears a huge part of itI love the shifting of the goalposts. Apparently now even Leicester and Chelsea had de-facto, much better squads than Ole at his disposal....all this to somehow belittle what Lampard and Rodgers have done, and mitigate the criticism directed at Ole.
When Puel was sacked, Leicester had just lost 4-1 to Palace, they were 12th in the table and close to getting dragged into a relegation scrap - this is if memory serves me right. They've subsequently lost one of the best players, to us, for a world record fee for a defender.
Chelsea have lost Hazard and have a transfer ban, meaning Lampard has had to rely on youngsters, or players which haven't exactly set the world alight last season (Willian, Jorginho, Barkley, Kovacic and a few more).
The squad at United are by no means ready to challenge, and there's a still a bit of a rebuild to go, but the impact Lampard and Rodgers have had really is undeniable, IMO. There's obviously no saying in how this season is going to end for the 3 managers but the impact of good coaching and tactics is clear to see.
Yeah I’d agree with that. Most people would have settled for top 4, and from what I recall, even a 5th place finish if things were heading in the right direction - I.e. we were playing some good football and the signs of progress were clear.It's unbelievable. It's not like most of pundits and 90% of the CAF were convinced that we'd easily get Top4 ahead of Chelsea and Arsenal and contend with Spurs for 3. Most people had written Chelsea off (novice manger, transfer ban, best player sold), and Leicester was in no one's radar to finish top 6. Make no mistake, we're massively underperforming and the current management team bears a huge part of it
We can only take him at his word, and that is what he says. So he should be judged accordingly on that.Well he would say that wouldn't he.
As a comparison, the Sheffield United squad is on paper nothing like as good or as talented as ours.
But the difference is that they are prepared to run and scrap and get to the ball first.
And ours think that because they play for Manchester United, they don't have to do any of that.