Sideways than backwards. Ole only had 1 transfer window mind you.
12 months since Mourinho was sacked and we've arguably gone backwards
- Thread starter Di Maria's angel
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Did I expect us to make real progress? Yes a big club should expect excellence form it's manager. Youth and fast football shouldn't be enough.
Yeah but going backwards doesn't necessarily mean you're headed in the right direction. It could just be a different wrong direction.
Agree with this. We're pointessly meandering around the same place.
You need to have patience yer big baby
Can someone answer honestly;
If someone told you after the Villa game we’d take 7 points from the next three games against Tottenham, City and Everton, would you take it?
Would it feel better if we have drawn against City and won against Everton?
If someone told you after the Villa game we’d take 7 points from the next three games against Tottenham, City and Everton, would you take it?
Would it feel better if we have drawn against City and won against Everton?
I'll have patience in quality. For example
In Greenwood not Keiron Richardson.
Just as well we don't have Keiron Richardson in the squad.
Why focus on a few results? Are a few wins supposed to make everything okay or a few losses the end of the world?
I think results wise were thankfully in a decent place because Chelsea have turned to crap. So hopefully Ole has a strong season and we make top 4. But I can't help but feel that I'm simply not seeing a quality manager in him. One year and we're still generally gash in possession.
Just as well we don't have Keiron Richardson in the squad.
Me may well be managed by someone with a lack of quality though. Hopefully not, and we manage to bag fourth and improve our football, of course.From a PR perspective, yes, from a results perspective, absolutely not. Its thin margins but we are worse off this season than last.
To be fair, we haven't lost in 6 games in the PL. Here's our unbeaten streaks since Sir Alex retired, oddly, we've never had a 5 game unbeaten run... anyway, only had a run of 10+ games three times since 13-14 season.
| Manager | Games in a Row | From | To |
|---|---|---|---|
| Ole | 6 and counting | Nov 10, 2019 | Dec 15, 2019 |
| Ole | 12 | Dec 22, 2018 | Mar 2, 2019 |
| Jose | 6 | Feb 25, 2018 | Apr 7, 2018 |
| Jose | 8 | Dec 13, 2017 | Jan 20, 2018 |
| Jose | 8 | Aug 13, 2017 | Oct 14, 2017 |
| Jose | 26 | Oct 29, 2016 | Apr 30, 2017 |
| LVG | 7 | Oct 17, 2015 | Dec 5, 2015 |
| LVG | 6 | Feb 28, 2015 | Apr 12, 2015 |
| LVG | 10 | Nov 8, 2014 | Jan 1, 2015 |
| Moyes | 7 | Oct 5, 2013 | Dec 1, 2013 |
This time last year how did imagine we would be in two or three years time and now how do you imagine we will be in two or three years time? That is the difference!
I think the biggest worry has to be how much we struggle against teams that are considered "lesser" than us, against the top 6 they will attack us, they seem to have a point to prove when playing us, and we are able to counter the attacks, but against the teams beneath that, they are more willing to allow us to have the ball, problem is we outplay are selves in the process.
The build-up is really slow when teams sit back against us, we lack that creative spark, the forwards movement off the ball is poor, to say the least, time will tell IF Pogba comes back into the team if he will be the answer to open teams up that sit back or if we will just continue to flounder against them.
The build-up is really slow when teams sit back against us, we lack that creative spark, the forwards movement off the ball is poor, to say the least, time will tell IF Pogba comes back into the team if he will be the answer to open teams up that sit back or if we will just continue to flounder against them.
I feel the same. We'll continue to bumble along talking about our history and how one day we'll return to the top doing it the United Way all while our rivals continue to improve and the gap increases.
The only difference now is we have a manager that a lot of fans would crawl over broken glass with their flies down for and so he can do no wrong. Even though Jose needed to go he was shining a light on the poor job of the board.
Until changes are made from top to bottom all the talk remains PR spin to buy the board more time.
Nowhere near the top in either cases, and Ole won't be here 2-3 years from now.
I don't think there's any argument (except from the deluded). definitely gone backwards
Exept we clearly havent.
1 point behind last season, better goal difference, less goals conceded and we're currently on a better run right now than Jose managed last season. Why do you think we've gone backwards?
Backwards.
Completely failed in our approach to this rebuild.
1. The idea seems to be that creating a team that can sit low and counter-attack will take us back to former glory. This notion seems to have been the basis for the players brought in.
2. Failed to get players that can create without space.
3. Bought an immobile centreback that basically forces us to defend with a low block.
4. Bought a fullback that can't attack.
If one thinks that one can compete at the highest level by being a pure counter-attacking team, then we have gone forwards and this rebuild is on the right track. If you think that this approach to football is not sustainable or feasible against most other teams, then we have gone backwards.
Completely failed in our approach to this rebuild.
1. The idea seems to be that creating a team that can sit low and counter-attack will take us back to former glory. This notion seems to have been the basis for the players brought in.
2. Failed to get players that can create without space.
3. Bought an immobile centreback that basically forces us to defend with a low block.
4. Bought a fullback that can't attack.
If one thinks that one can compete at the highest level by being a pure counter-attacking team, then we have gone forwards and this rebuild is on the right track. If you think that this approach to football is not sustainable or feasible against most other teams, then we have gone backwards.
You're wasting your time mate, these people actually enjoy being pessimistic.
From a future perspective, we weren't going anywhere good. Change takes time to implement....I'm not convinced Ole is the best man for the job. But I've no doubt the direction we are travelling in now is better.
I disagree in some respects. I think we have taken some important steps forward. Maybe not in terms of win % or league position but in terms of team functionality I think we've made some good strides forward. We now at least can go into each match knowing what our strongest team is and unlike when Jose was in charge, Ole seems to think the same as a lot of us. His best team looks very much like our best team.
First of all we have a nice, settled defence with 2 new players who have largely fit straight into the starting 11 with no bother, and certainly with AWB we have a massive upgrade on what we had before. I also like Maguire at CB and although he's not top, top level he is a very calming presence who has had a good impact and has already been wearing the captaincy. I think he'll grow into it more and more.
Secondly, McT and Fred are currently looking like our best MF pairing for a few seasons, look at Fred's improvement over the last season, and when Pogba returns I expect him to sit in in front of them two and make a better link between MF and attack. No reason why this shouldn't work.
Our attack is so much better now Rashford has moved over to the left and Dan James is being that RW we've all been screaming out for. The more thiis team plays together the better it will get. We're not far off top 4 now and it's all looking better than it was.
Fair assessment and now a question of which way Ole takes us, it might get better it might not but it’s pretty much as we were with some different players which has been similar under every manager.
Also have to remember that Mourinho was sacked at a low point, it shouldn’t really be an argument about whether we are better or not. That’s where we are though and have to see what happens for rest of season.
Lindelof needs to be upgraded on, Maguire has been decent but not exceptional by any means and there's no indication a new manager will like to have 2 fullbacks that barely do anything in the attack.
Fred isn't good enough for any top team and Pogba leaving is a matter of time. As for the attack Martial will probably be benched once we sign a proper striker as Haaland and honestly not sure James will be a good enough permanent starter for a team challenging for the league. Decent player, but not someone I'll see him starting in a top 1 or 2 team.
Overall this team you're talking about will have 4th or 5th as a big achievement which isn't something we were hoping for. Is 4th the ultimate target for the upcoming years ?
Coming 4th or 5th in the EPL as a pure counter-attacking team would be an achievement.
Yes I agree.
I agree with your Maguire statement but I doubt there are many upgrades on AWB defensively and I really don't see his attacking capability as anywhere near the worst I've seen. Williams could be fantastic at LB and is already arguably prefereble to Shaw. I don't think our defence is in a terrible state.
Fred is not far off and is a hugely improved player over the poor fella who couldn't get a game last year. Some of his play is top drawer. Pogba may leave but until someone buys him (and there's no guarntee anyone will pay what we ask) he's ours and free'd of defensive duties and surrounded by DJ and Rashford and Martial I would expect his assist rate to go up in the new year. But ultimately, if he is sold, we will be able to buy whatever we need with the money we'd get.
Agree with your view on Martial, I'm not his biggest fan and I'd happily see us replace him and I don't think it would be hard to upgrade on him either. All the talent in the world doesn't make you a great player.
I do disagree with your view on DJ though. Yes he's a bit limited and it remains to be seen how much he can improve but he could be on our RW for years to come and I wouldn't moan.
No it isn't of course but I was just trying to make the point that improvement has been made in terms of the balance and effectiveness of the team. Ole has definitely improved the make up of our squad and given a much better platform for a better squad to be built. If we ended up getting 4th this year I would be pretty happy with that in the circumstances but that isn't enough going forward.
Fred has improved but not the degree of being a player at a top club imo. He'll likely get upgraded in 1 or 2 years imo.
4th will be a good end position this year but the problem is I don't see this squad taking it to the next step and challenging for the league. Loads of money still need to be spent for that.
We will probably end around 6th this season again. Our squad has less depth now too. We didn't really buy the right players for the progress we needed either apart from James.
The state is worse now, but it can change with the right manager and players in. The good thing is that our counter attacking football at least works against the big teams.
The state is worse now, but it can change with the right manager and players in. The good thing is that our counter attacking football at least works against the big teams.
We certainly haven't gone forwards. At all.
And forget results for a second, anyone arguing we have on the basis of our performances and style of play this season are seriously, madly deluded.
The results are worse. The style of play against the top sides is somewhat better (but still defense and counter-attack orientated as under Mourinho). But the style of play against the bottom 13 sides is significantly worse.
And forget results for a second, anyone arguing we have on the basis of our performances and style of play this season are seriously, madly deluded.
The results are worse. The style of play against the top sides is somewhat better (but still defense and counter-attack orientated as under Mourinho). But the style of play against the bottom 13 sides is significantly worse.
We have gone backwards since 12 months ago. We are one point worse off and the squad is nowhere near as deep as it was then.
What else has changed? Lets have a think....
Things that we've lost:
I can't speak for everyone, but I would trade all of the above to be one point worse off in the league without having to think too long about it.
What else has changed? Lets have a think....
Things that we've lost:
- Players who weren't good enough
- Players who didn't want to be here
- Players on HUGE salaries that weren't contributing
- A manager that didn't care about this club
- That thought nothing of belittling our history to explain away our losses
- That waged a very obvious and public demonstration against the board for not letting him buy another centre-back
- That was having a very public falling out with our best player and various others
- A manager without a hugely impressive CV that, yes, undoubtedly only got the interim role because of his affiliation with the club. One who then EARNED a permanent contract with his results at this club
- A completely different mood around the club. No more public fighting. No more disrespectful press conferences
- A management team that are clearly devoted to bringing back the attacking football that we all crave
- A squad that no longer has that bloated mercenary feel to it. Instead it feels like one that has an exciting future. Young and vibrant and willing to work hard to bring success back to this club
- A board committed to bringing in the right type of player. One who wants to play here, that has their best years in front of them. That represent the club how we want our players to
I can't speak for everyone, but I would trade all of the above to be one point worse off in the league without having to think too long about it.
Yep, I’m with you on that. Thin as it is, I much prefer our squad to last year.
Not backwards, but we haven't got a manager in who will take us forwards. We never seem to be interested in modern attack minded mangers who adhere to a strict footballing philosophy and want to play expansive football. The football under Ole has veered from utterly terrible to quite good. Unfortunately, it's been fairly poor the most part bar the odd game here-and-there. I have no confidence that he is a manager who is capable of taking us back to the top table of the footballing elite.
I foresee us having these kinds of seasons as long as Ole remains with no real progress. Progress is what happens when the likes of Klopp come in and totally change a teams system and footballing culture. What Ole has done is nowhere near good enough in my honest opinion and I see very little evidence of this experiment working out. When the defence of Ole is that he's trying his best and has given youth a chance; well that, to me, smacks of settling for abject mediocrity. Now don't get me wrong, if he goes at the end of the season, I'll be thankful for giving some of the young lads a chance but I mean, there haven't really been many other positives. When beating Spurs away - it was a good win and all, but ..... - gets fans all giddy and talking us up, that juts shows standards are rock bottom, yet some fans can't see that.
I foresee us having these kinds of seasons as long as Ole remains with no real progress. Progress is what happens when the likes of Klopp come in and totally change a teams system and footballing culture. What Ole has done is nowhere near good enough in my honest opinion and I see very little evidence of this experiment working out. When the defence of Ole is that he's trying his best and has given youth a chance; well that, to me, smacks of settling for abject mediocrity. Now don't get me wrong, if he goes at the end of the season, I'll be thankful for giving some of the young lads a chance but I mean, there haven't really been many other positives. When beating Spurs away - it was a good win and all, but ..... - gets fans all giddy and talking us up, that juts shows standards are rock bottom, yet some fans can't see that.
You wanted to win the league then with this squad?Pointless trying to debate anything if people we’re so Delusional to begin with.
Fact is, Ole is getting the best out of this threadbare squad, it’s basically a youth squad with some average-to-above-average senior players.
I get that as United fans we should maintain a high level of expectancy from this Club, it’s one of the biggest in the world after all. BUT we are where we are now, and that is currently nowhere near the top of the tree.
Therefore continuous improvement is what is needed, most fans can see the positives Ole is implementing.
Sacking every manager who doesn’t win you the league every year is hugely counterproductive. That’s a fact.
Who said that ? Try to read before posting first. What I'm saying is the fact the squad is still where it was the previous year, just hoping to finish 4th after spending extra 150m in summer and still look miles away from finishing anywhere close to 2nd or 3rd makes the idea of us moving anywhere forward illogical and clouded by romanticism. Who was responsible for the squad to be in threadbare state ? Or were you expecting us to spend +250m in summer ?
Pointless trying to debate anything if people we’re so Delusional to begin with.
Fact is, Ole is getting the best out of this threadbare squad, it’s basically a youth squad with some average-to-above-average senior players.
I get that as United fans we should maintain a high level of expectancy from this Club, it’s one of the biggest in the world after all. BUT we are where we are now, and that is currently nowhere near the top of the tree.
Therefore continuous improvement is what is needed, most fans can see the positives Ole is implementing.
Sacking every manager who doesn’t win you the league every year is hugely counterproductive. That’s a fact.
How can you say that? Have you known Jose for who he is? The man did not just impose negative tactics, he killed the dressing room. It was all about himself and how he wants to play and not about the club or its ways. Ole has certainly brought a lot of changes in the club. He has managed to get most of the worthless players out and is giving youth a healthy chance to prove themselves. If Jose was given this squad, you think he would manage to be in the same place in the table and even if so, he'd beat Spurs and City in 4 days? I know the progress is slow and we're still not attacking attacking attacking but Ole is doing everything in his power to push this club and team back to the top with his calming smile and learning a great deal about his players. Ole is the best guy on the job for United now and i think he will choose the perfect players in the transfer windows as well. We need to back him and help him learn on the job as well.
Agreed, OP is a joke.Gone backwards
Typical goldfish memory from the average caf poster.
Solskjaer is almost starting from scratch. Getting rid of Darmian and few other pointless players for me personally is a sign of going forward. It needs to continue if he want to stay here for more than 1-2 seasons, but clear out can take even up to two summer windows in order to team start breathing fresh air again, so better to arm yourselves with patience, because even with Poch at helm, he would need time to assess whole situation.
I was about to start typing a response to the OP, but then I saw this and it pretty much says everything I was going to say, so thanks, mate, for saving me a few minutes.
It all depend on what you compare with. The gap up to Liverpool is much bigger now.
Also our squad is weaker at the moment.
The football we play is also not great this season apart from the big games.
A good manager could use this team to do better, but we still lack quality up front and in midfield to reach the top.
Unless things change then Ole should go after this season. Since we are doing well in the big games he deserve to get a chance to win the europa league at least to save our season.
Also our squad is weaker at the moment.
The football we play is also not great this season apart from the big games.
A good manager could use this team to do better, but we still lack quality up front and in midfield to reach the top.
Unless things change then Ole should go after this season. Since we are doing well in the big games he deserve to get a chance to win the europa league at least to save our season.
Same. We haven't gotten any worse but in terms of cold, hard facts (performances and results, not things like morale, youth, the United way etc) we are no better either despite having spent another £80m+sales. I haven't seen any proper progress, just improvements in feel-good factors such as general vibe, youth team products playing regularly etc.