Iran Plane Crash and Subsequent Protests

[sport2793]

Any international sympathy that Iran may have gained after their general's assassination surely would go down the drain if this remains the official explanation for the plane crash. What a baffling feckup.

Yep, this is an embarrassing setback in a situation where Iran was winning the global PR battle, the regime probably are infuriated with the military officer who gave the order to launch the missiles.

I just hope Trump doesnt find a new lease of life because of this though, a poll released today say that the majority of Americans think Trump is acting recklessly on Iran and that congress should limit his military powers.

 

[Amar__]

It’s almost impossible that a plane falls out of the sky on fire with no emergency declared

I just read NY times article, and they say they lost any signal with the plane probably few minutes before it crashed.

 

[bosnian_red]

KAL 007
IA655
MH17

Mistakes happen.

Oh for sure, not saying it wasn't. I'm questioning the safe guards to prevent these mistakes, as they're pretty drastic.

 

[Foxbatt]

Iran has not denied it outright either. I wish the US would come out and say it was a missile and then the Iranians would have to admit they shot it down by mistake. It most probably was shot down by a missile. But the US is trying cool things down so they would not want to make matters worse by saying so I guess.

 

[sport2793]

I just read NY times article, and they say they lost any signal with the plane probably few minutes before it crashed.

If you watch the video circulating the web it's clear that the airplane floated for a few minutes after being hit before hitting the ground. Its basic physics mate.

 

[sport2793]

Iran has not denied it outright either. I wish the US would come out and say it was a missile and then the Iranians would have to admit they shot it down by mistake. It most probably was shot down by a missile. But the US is trying cool things down so they would not want to make matters worse by saying so I guess.

Think it's best if the US stays out of it for now and let Canada and others take the lead. Think it would make it more likely that Iran will then allow for transparency. What matters most is getting answers for the families who lost loved ones.

 

[Foxbatt]

Think it's best if the US stays out of it for now and let Canada and others take the lead. Think it would make it more likely that Iran will then allow for transparency. What matters most is getting answers for the families who lost loved ones.

Then it is better than the French or the Germans lead that.

 

[Tarrou]

how do you mistakenly shoot down a plane?

I mean they obviously meant to shoot it down, the only 'mistake' could be they thought it was a different plane

 

[Amar__]

- Why would iranians kill their people?
- Why would they kill Canadians, surely they are not that bad at geography?
- Missplacing a commercial fight for some combat plane is ridiculous and amateurish, I have heard people here talking about how well equipped Iran is, so this would be a childish error
- Even if they missplaced it(but still not believing it), surely they wouldn't missplace the plane that just took off from their airport, that's just ridiculous, have people actually read anything on this before believimg the shit we got served in the news
I mean, we had amateur terrorists taking over a plane and crashing it into a building but yet well equipped Iranians aren't supposed to differentiate commercial flights - on their own field few km away from their airport
- Americans have so many reasons to tell the world it was Iran who shot it down - people forget that Boeing had their fair share of problems and looks like everyone here is ignoring the fact that Boeing is one of America's biggest and most famous companies, even if they prove it was broke, they will still make us all believe it was shot down by Iran
- America will never allow another scandal involving Boeing, another one of these can literally destroy the company.
- France and UK literally supported USA's terroristic attack few days ago, and we are supposed to believe their objective view on this plane crash?

Yeah, I am done here. This is worse than people believing conspiracy theories made on youtube by 16 year olds.

If you watch the video circulating the web it's clear that the airplane floated for a few minutes after being hit before hitting the ground. Its basic physics mate.

Oh yeah, it's pretty clear alright from the 240p video that someone made, basic physics

 

[sport2793]

Oh yeah, it's pretty clear alright from the 240p video that someone made, basic physics

Theres a higher resolution version of it from the same source that has been handed over to news organizations.

 

[mariachi-19]

how do you mistakenly shoot down a plane?

I mean they obviously meant to shoot it down, the only 'mistake' could be they thought it was a different plane

Sensor malfunction or it picked up the planes heat signature.

FYI most bombs and missiles do not explode on impact but rather have sensors in the nose of the bomb/missile that when it senses it is in proximity radius to the target, it explodes.

 

[sport2793]

Yeah, I am done here. This is worse than people believing conspiracy theories made on youtube by 16 year olds.

No one is saying that Iran intended to kill anyone, it was likely that a nervous anti air operator made a mistake, a sad tragedy.

Won't respond to the rest of the post as it's clear you've lost the plot and don't know much. Best to take your attitude back to the United forum.

 

[TheReligion]

No one is saying that Iran intended to kill anyone, it was likely that a nervous anti air operator made a mistake, a sad tragedy.

Won't respond to the rest of the post as it's clear you've lost the plot and don't know much. Best to take your attitude back to the United forum.

 

[TheReligion]

That they don't trust the Americans?

I'm sure they'll be happy to hand it over to the Ukrainian authorities then?

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Yo @Amar__ look into it, Iran has a history of killing Canadians of Iranian descent.

 

[hasanejaz88]

I don't know why people are surprised that an accidental missile strike could do this, it's not as if there isn't precedent of this. I mean America has done it themselves in the past, and very recently it happened over Ukraine as well.

 

[Wibble]

I wondered if it was mistakenly shot down when it first happened and it is looking more likely now. I suppose we should be grateful that the US didn't shoot a plane down as that could have tipped us into war.

 

[Simbo]

Given what was happening the past few days in that part of the world, it's not exactly forgivable but almost understandable that a SAM ground crew there were nervous / trigger happy.

Nervous enough to mistake an aircraft slowly climbing away from Tehran airport just 2 minutes after take off for something hostile? These things are radar operated, how could anyone possibly judge that aircraft to be something hostile. Its just madness, but so is any other potential explanation i guess.

 

[berbatrick]

Considering Iran just shot down an airliner I think I know which country is on the money.

One of the best things any country can do is get nukes, and I'm thankful mine has them. Tougher to bully someone with teeth, however the geopolitical situation changes in the future.

 

[Tarrou]

I don't know why people are surprised that an accidental missile strike could do this, it's not as if there isn't precedent of this. I mean America has done it themselves in the past, and very recently it happened over Ukraine as well.

probably because it took off from Tehran airport a couple of minutes before they shot it

 

[berbatrick]

Considering Iran just shot down an airliner I think I know which country is on the money.

i already replied but just realised that, as someone else said, that people are sometimes brainwashed in unfortunate ways. so, to try and bring some light to those in the dark:
Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas, that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed and all 290 people on board, including 66 children, were killed.[1] The jet was hit while flying over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, along the flight's usual route, shortly after departing Bandar Abbas International Airport, the flight's stopover location. Vincennes had entered Iranian territory after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits.

let alone multiple unilateral invasions since then

 

[Foxbatt]

i already replied but just realised that, as someone else said, that people are sometimes brainwashed in unfortunate ways. so, to try and bring some light to those in the dark:
Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas, that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed and all 290 people on board, including 66 children, were killed.[1] The jet was hit while flying over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, along the flight's usual route, shortly after departing Bandar Abbas International Airport, the flight's stopover location. Vincennes had entered Iranian territory after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits.

let alone multiple unilateral invasions since then

To add to insult they also promoted the Captain of the Vincennes. In any other country he would have to face a court martial and would be probably at least be dismissed or forced to retire.

 

[Full bodied red]

Nervous enough to mistake an aircraft slowly climbing away from Tehran airport just 2 minutes after take off for something hostile? These things are radar operated, how could anyone possibly judge that aircraft to be something hostile. Its just madness, but so is any other potential explanation i guess.

I was trying to give an ' open to all possibilities opinion ' until the actual facts come out rather than stating something I can't confirm. But given the environment and time and place, etc, I reckon -

Accidental shoot down ?? Highly probable.

Deliberate shoot down ?? Very possible.

Mechanical failure ?? Always possible but I'd be really, really surprised as the aircraft was reported to be just 48 hours out of extended maintenance.

Crew error ?? Highly unlikely in this case as it's reported not the usual two pilots but three hugely experienced flight deck crew.

 

[mariachi-19]

One of the best things any country can do is get nukes, and I'm thankful mine has them. Tougher to bully someone with teeth, however the geopolitical situation changes in the future.

Wait... what?

Nuclear weapons are an abomination and a major blight on history as a whole. We have literally created a weapon that would see the world come to an end for what has merely become a dick measuring contest amongst countries. There is no way these types of weapons will ever be used so what is the purpose of their construction? How about instead of relying on weapons of mass destruction, we focus on diplomacy and not fecking each other over? Or better yet, the US feck off out of areas of interest that dont concern them other than for commercial gain, enhance the peace keeping function of the UN and everybody gets on with life and the "defence" forces actually become just that rather than a means to enforce presence in commercial viable areas.

 

[ChaddyP]

Ridiculous that people in 2020. still believe any bullshit coming from american news (even if it's true, but I doubt)

Where do you get your trustworthy news by the way?

 

[VeevaVee]

There's a video of the plane being hit by the missile.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/video/iran-plane-missile.html

Hard to fathom how terrifying it must've been to have been hit but the plane continue flying, presumably with a huge hole in the side, before eventually exploding.

Also, why was someone recording?

 

[berbatrick]

Wait... what?

Nuclear weapons are an abomination and a major blight on history as a whole. We have literally created a weapon that would see the world come to an end for what has merely become a dick measuring contest amongst countries. There is no way these types of weapons will ever be used so what is the purpose of their construction? How about instead of relying on weapons of mass destruction, we focus on diplomacy and not fecking each other over? Or better yet, the US feck off out of areas of interest that dont concern them other than for commercial gain, enhance the peace keeping function of the UN and everybody gets on with life and the "defence" forces actually become just that rather than a means to enforce presence in commercial viable areas.

For the part in bold - the US empire is needed for the smooth functioning of capitalism, the economy will collapse into chaos if the US suddenly withdraws. The best hope is a move away from worldwide military deployment to a minor withdrawal from the tensest areas and more use of diplomacy.


This is what happened to my country before we had nukes -
https://warisboring.com/in-1971-the-u-s-navy-almost-fought-the-soviets-over-bangladesh/
We needed a Soviet diplomat sitting in our defence ministry, and a Soviet submarine off our coast, to scare off a US+UK naval taskforce from intervention.
The reason the US can wave its dick around in the Middle East is because all those militaries are like flies that a superpower can swat away.

Of course there is a massive downside, but as irrational as the North Koreans supposedly are, they have access to multiple nukes and haven't used them. As the Israelis argue, the world is an awful place and not having the best weapons is fatal.

 

[mariachi-19]

For the part in bold - the US empire is needed for the smooth functioning of capitalism, the economy will collapse into chaos if the US suddenly withdraws. The best hope is a move away from worldwide military deployment to a minor withdrawal from the tensest areas and more use of diplomacy.


This is what happened to my country before we had nukes -
https://warisboring.com/in-1971-the-u-s-navy-almost-fought-the-soviets-over-bangladesh/
We needed a Soviet diplomat sitting in our defence ministry, and a Soviet submarine off our coast, to scare off a US+UK naval taskforce from intervention.
The reason the US can wave its dick around in the Middle East is because all those militaries are like flies that a superpower can swat away.

Of course there is a massive downside, but as irrational as the North Koreans supposedly are, they have access to multiple nukes and haven't used them. As the Israelis argue, the world is an awful place and not having the best weapons is fatal.

I understand that its not as simple as the US pulling out as it creates a vaccum, but the idea that Nukes are in anyway a good thing is deplorable.

The purpose of my comment about enhancing the powers of the UN is on the basis that UN task forces take over the role of the US government without the necessary aggresive stance that more often than not, follows US occupancy in specific nations.

Simply, the best weapons need not be weapons of mass destruction. We're playing a game with millions of innocent lives at risk and that is not acceptable in any shape or form. Further, it is nearly getting to the point where the best weapons we have are through cyber channels rather than blunt force. Look at the 2016 election for example. I doubt even Russia in their wildest dreams could imagine how big of a clown Trump has turned out to be and the civil unrest that has pretty much spread to most major western countries.

 

[prateik]

Any evidence or just theories?
If its the latter, then its best just to ignore them.. this isnt r/conspiracy.

If any evidence shows up, that'll change things.

 

[MDFC Manager]

I'm sure they'll be happy to hand it over to the Ukrainian authorities then?

Who will in turn hand it over to a processing facility in the US, likely because it was an American built aircraft.

 

[Wedge]

I don't know why people are surprised that an accidental missile strike could do this, it's not as if there isn't precedent of this. I mean America has done it themselves in the past, and very recently it happened over Ukraine as well.

The Ukrainian one was no accident.

 

[Carolina Red]

CNN now reporting that Iran has invited the US and Canada to be present during the investigation.

 

[Sir Matt]

Any evidence or just theories?
If its the latter, then its best just to ignore them.. this isnt r/conspiracy.

If any evidence shows up, that'll change things.

Multiple intelligence agencies have reported that it was shot down. Given the situation, it's likely every intelligence agency in the world was watching Iran during that period of time. The US also has monitors that pick up and track missile launches all over the world, which is how they had sufficient time to get to bunkers earlier in the night. In the 90s, they had the ability to track short-range ballistic missile launches in Iraq. Of course, the US will never (barring Trump tweeting it out), reveal the underlying intelligence of it knows since it would give away strategic capabilities.

There is also a video showing what appears to be a missile hitting a plane that's been located to the neighborhood of Tehran where it happened.

Iran has said parts of the black box data were lost from damage, which is incredibly suspicious and apparently has gathered/cleared all of the debris already.

To be clear, I wouldn't believe this coming out of Trump or his cabinet's mouth, but there seems to be evidence for multiple intelligence agencies to conclude the same thing.

 

[SmashedHombre]

This whole situation is just sad. The rich and powerful play their little games, and still it's the innocents who have to suffer. You can't push two countries to the brink of war in some kind of little power play and not foresee accidents like this.

 

[hobbers]

Was so obvious it was shot down even before the hard evidence, purely from the timing. Clearly they had their AA defence systems ramped up to max having just launched their own attack. And clearly the safeguards were untested and insufficient.

Maybe the plane had a fault and turned around, and therefore deviated from its flight path and that triggered the AA systems.

Russian made missile defence systems have a bit of history when it comes to hitting civilian planes.

 

[Sky1981]

The answer will be very simple and straightforward when all the investigators has done their dues. A plane crash, a site crash, debris / hubris, satelite imaging, heat signal etc. If it is indeed a Missile strike it won't be hard to say it is one, and if it is indeed a missile strike finding the trigger will be pretty straightforward. You can't really hush hush an incident of this proportion

 

[Redplane]

Something about this just feels very odd about this:

Iran launches numerous missiles that somehow not only don't get intercepted - they travel all the way to the base and somehow they targeted them so precisely not a single soul was hurt.

Iran issues threat that it will not only level Dubai and Hafai if US retaliates - it had also issued a threat to attack America on its own soil.

You would think any nation - but especially the US and POTUS would have some very very harsh words at the very very least. Instead we get kumbaya and something like: oh well - silly Iran. But they told us they re done now so it's all good.

Oh and BTW let's have a new agreement after we just tore up the old to make Iran abide by it. Even though we first said we don't trust Iran at all. Yet they "attack" us and a plane magically goes down at the same time and Iran can now be trusted. Let's not forget the statement about enormous untapped potential in Iran and that they re good people now.

First large plane crash to occur in quite a while - world leaders - Trump in particular seeing how he had the eyes of the world on him - don't say much or anything at all about it right after. Not even acknowledging it. Zilch. Even though the loss of human life is a terrible thing and we just bragged about how no one was hurt in the attacks.

Right away a first video shows up that seems to show the explosion but that one is quickly forgotten because we can't tell a missile hit it. Not clearly anyway. Not talked about again.

New video suddenly comes out that is about as clear a evidence of a missile striking it as you could possibly hope to get. Remember-missiles go fast - it's pitch black outside and someone just happened to have a rather quick set of hands and ability to focus in the middle of what looks like some God forsaken neighborhood.

Iran instantly decides to not hand over black boxes and there is probably less left of this aircraft than planes that were also downed. But those black boxes were found intact and pretty quick I guess?

Some voices go up that Iran was in fact responsible for this. But no wait - it was an Iranian missile. We re not saying Iran right. Iran doesn't seem to be upset by the accusations. In fact they are surprisingly mellow about it all it seems.

Trudeau holds a press conference and is quick to point out this could very well have been unintentional. How often does a leader say that right out of the gates instead of simply saying - it appears an Iranian missile downed the aircraft - we are committed to finding out everything there is to know and hold those accountable who are responsible for this.. Or at least not immediately bring up the assumption it could have been unintentional when you re dealing with a nation that just lost a significant number of its citizens in the crash. Oh well - right?

Am I going crazy?

 

[Redplane]

The answer will be very simple and straightforward when all the investigators has done their dues. A plane crash, a site crash, debris / hubris, satelite imaging, heat signal etc. If it is indeed a Missile strike it won't be hard to say it is one, and if it is indeed a missile strike finding the trigger will be pretty straightforward. You can't really hush hush an incident of this proportion

It worked pretty well in the case of MH17

 

[Sky1981]

It worked pretty well in the case of MH17

It was cleared what shot the plane, pretty clear who dun it, if no one's taking action then it's not the investigators vault

 

[Sir Matt]

The answer will be very simple and straightforward when all the investigators has done their dues. A plane crash, a site crash, debris / hubris, satelite imaging, heat signal etc. If it is indeed a Missile strike it won't be hard to say it is one, and if it is indeed a missile strike finding the trigger will be pretty straightforward. You can't really hush hush an incident of this proportion

Exactly. That's why everyone came to the obvious, factual conclusion that Russians and Ukrainian rebels shot down MH17 with a Russian Buk missile. No one came out with dozens of different and obviously false theories to explain that it was all Ukraine's fault.