Shoot it down by a missile, 100%
Iran Plane Crash and Subsequent Protests
- Thread starter Fergies Gum
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Where's the hand on forehead whatsapp emoji when you need it!@Dans Just so you know, Iran is not an Arabic speaking country but Farsi, with its own unique history/ language etc.
Most Iranians don't like to be called Arabs.
I think it is difficult to explain to a Westerner to be honest. How many peoples around the world, in the ME, East Asia, Africa etc look at these things.
Perhaps most fundamentally, it stems at its most basic from a different outlook on things like the family unit and society in general? A more collectivist look than that seen in most Western countries and an importance assigned to a strong (often male) figure within the family unit or the country as a whole.
Sorry for that basic fookup!
But it's about this isn't it? This is where so much of the world lags behind, for whichever reason, but this heroworshipping of the strong male figurehead is something to move on from. It takes time and a massive cultural shift obviously, but the lack of the ability for women to be accepted into strong roles is what handicaps so much of the world in my opinion. We took a long time to get where we are in the west today (and we are still not far enough generally and still plenty backward in many places) but this lack of progress on empowering women and shifting the focus from strong male figureheads is going to leave so much of the world at the mercy of dick measurers.@Dans Just so you know, Iran is not an Arabic speaking country but Farsi, with its own unique history/ language etc.
Most Iranians don't like to be called Arabs.
I think it is difficult to explain to a Westerner to be honest. How many peoples around the world, in the ME, East Asia, Africa etc look at these things.
Perhaps most fundamentally, it stems at its most basic from a different outlook on things like the family unit and society in general? A more collectivist look than that seen in most Western countries and an importance assigned to a strong (often male) figure within the family unit or the country as a whole.
Won't change to a truly meaningful level of equality until religions are modernised/amended/redundant.
edit: And that's globally and across the piece. Not aimed at any particular religion (although any that have it written in their respective book that women are not equal and should be controlled etc are probably more ingrained)
Well, it will have to because, sadly, religions will not be modernised/amended/redundant any time ever.
Sadly, agreed.
What a load of nonsense here by some people on aircraft accident investigation. Iran or any other country has no obligation to give any DFDFR or any other evidence or parts to any country. Iran where the accident happened is obliged to lead the investigations. The other interested parties, in this case Ukraine ( as the state of registry and US as the state of manufacturer ) ( designated authority of FAA is NTSB for investigations) and Boeing as the manufacturer is invited to join the investigation committee. Iran has already invited France and Canada to help with the decoding of the DFDR. It will most probably be taken to BEA in France.
The others will have access to the information. It does not need to be taken to Boeing for any reason if Iran or any other country does not wish to do so. It would be also ridiculous for Iran to give it to Boeing because the Iranians would not be allowed to go to the US. Even their foreign minister was denied a visa to attend the UN this week.
The others will have access to the information. It does not need to be taken to Boeing for any reason if Iran or any other country does not wish to do so. It would be also ridiculous for Iran to give it to Boeing because the Iranians would not be allowed to go to the US. Even their foreign minister was denied a visa to attend the UN this week.
I see things like this in western culture. Outpouring of grief for someone people never met is what Western people do every time one of their favourite celebrities that they have never met dies. See Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, Princess Diana just to name a few.
Diana aside, I can't remember huge crowds outside on the streets. (Apart from class 4B who has finally been released from Neverland's pool house)
Maybe its the circumstance, a difference culture, but even if Boris Johnson died tomorrow, I can't see millions lining every street?
Fandom. Not quite the same, but similar I grant you. Not by any stretch on the same scale though is it?
That has to be one of the most ironic or ignorant posts of this thread.
Agreeing with Trump about unfulfilled potential and hoping for peace in the region when the Americans (and Saudis) are the single greatest cause for unrest in that region.
One of the main purposes of Iran pushing back on America was to kick them out of the region! Which pretty much every country there wants, other than Saudi and Israel because of their own interests.
But oh! Poor Americans! Only wish for peace and prosperity in the Middle East.
I am genuinely baffled by your post.
I never agree with Trump, but he said Iran is a country with great potential (isn't it in your opinion) and I believe that is true. I haven't suggested who is to blame for anything only stated that the region is a mess. What's got your goat exactly? Where is the ignorance?
If Barrack Obama tragically died tomorrow there would probably be commotion in major american cities and possibly even some others around the world. Besides the national holiday and state funeral that goes with the death of any US president.
I really don't think he was defending Trump or America's actions. Instability caused by internal and external sources. Maybe have a cuppa..
That's true, good point.
Okay, I apologize for the personal attack. I thought you were insinuating that Iran was to blame if the instability.
Though, Trump would do well to remove economic sanctions on them if he really wants them to fulfill their potential. Kinda hard to fulfil anything when you have sanctions on you.
Nothing wrong with him saying that really, and people really should stop kidding themselves about the Middle East. They've been squabbling since before America even existed and they'll continue to do so long after. As long as the culture is centred around tribal organisation, they will find a reason to fight. America is just the current excuse.
Talking of Obama, and slightly off thread, I read last month that he's just bought a house in New England somewhere for $ 12 million.
Now where did he get that kind of money from ??
He would be able to command $250k just for an evening of after dinner speaking. His earning potential is huge across many avenues.
Here's one
https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/3/...ama-65-million-book-deal-penguin-random-house
Book deals. Him and Michelle reportedly got $65m (some say lower) from Penguin for the rights to their memoirs (and Michelle's have already been published iirc). Obama also already had over $10 million before the presidency from his past 2 books that were big hits once he became a leading candidate and then president.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...b3d682-feb1-11e6-99b4-9e613afeb09f_story.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danale...on-since-arriving-in-washington/#1528b5865bf0
OK...Thanks.
Only read about the house purchase - didn't read anything about book deals.
Who do I contact about one of these book deals then ?
Only read about the house purchase - didn't read anything about book deals.
Who do I contact about one of these book deals then ?
Some level of research from Ukranians. Gotta believe the internet!
This thread is Beginning to become reminiscent of the event itself, i.e. no one really talking about a catastrophic plane crash.
Accident or not, you bring a plane down with almost 200 innocent people, there has to be consequences and big ones at that.
Accident or not, you bring a plane down with almost 200 innocent people, there has to be consequences and big ones at that.
What are the feelings towards the event in Canada?
Don't hold your breath. In the murky world of geopolitics it isn't a crucial event.
And now update from Ukraine:
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy has also called for the U.S. and Canada to release any evidence they have. He said in a statement on Facebook that the possibility that a missile was responsible for the crash "cannot be ruled out but cannot currently be confirmed."
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy has also called for the U.S. and Canada to release any evidence they have. He said in a statement on Facebook that the possibility that a missile was responsible for the crash "cannot be ruled out but cannot currently be confirmed."
Am I being naive to suggest that the size of the plane, plus its trajectory, would be completely at odds with a US fighter/bomber aircraft?
Trudeau wanting answers basically, but the press in general want answers fast
Also wondering.... maybe we can sell a compelling book on the history of RedCafe. I'm sure everyone wants to read that...
You'd think it would be impossible to confuse the two, but pitch dark for the naked eye and' 'on-the-edge' military I'd believe it's possible.
There are some rumours ( not yet confirmed ) that the aircraft might have been in the process of returning to the airport with some mechanical problem or for some other reason.
If those rumours are correct, and it had deviated from its original, expected heading and was now unexpectedly descending directly towards the missile site close to the airport, then who knows....
I am actually a bit confused. If you would have told me 7 days ago, that the Iranians shoot down a plane and nobody would react, I would have considered you crazy. Maybe more is coming once we have more information, but currently it looks a bit like everyone pretends that this is not that big of a deal. Thats the reaction I expected from the caf ("upsy daisy, just a little accident."), but I would have thought that western politicians would react very different. I would have thought that this is the kind of act, that could lead to serious escalation.
No. Indeed if a SAM site is located close to an airport you'd expect the operators to be very familiar with the patterns of commercial traffic into and out of the airport. Vectors, altitudes, speeds, etc. Besides the transponder signals which would also tell them what the individual aircraft are. You'd imagine that seeing commercial airliners in and out of the airport is what they do every single day, while searching for other anomalies that might be actual targets.
But... now consider that they're in a high alert status because their country launched ballistic missiles at Iraq hours ago, they're a SAM site in the capital, supposedly close to several targets the US might like to strike, and the SAM site itself is a prime target that the US would go after ahead of others in the area (so operators fear for their own life). Finally, the enemy they're looking for are known for their stealth aircraft that the SAM radars might only catch a glimpse of right when its on top of them... sets up a situation where if anything about any plane out of the airport that night looked out of place for a few seconds the operators might choose to fire.
Once it's proven beyond any doubt. Yes.
Not before. I don't trust the US, they have no shame and not even trying to make a good accusation these days. Remember the phony accuse of iranian bombing the Japanese vessel? I don't know who to trust, so I keep my jugdment.
Are you thinking that the US really does want a war with Iran? I'm more thinking that the West doesn't want a war with Iran so starting one over an accident wouldn't make sense. I say accident because it seems there is no clear motive as to why they'd take this plane down, unless I'm missing something?
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If anything, it got them off the hook from having to escalate after the airbase strikes because it serves as a distraction.
Thanks guys.
It’s an horrendous feck up, whatever happened. I think it gives lie to the idea that there was cohesion between Iran and the US on the missile attacks, as has been suggested by some, namely that the US were informed there’d be a moderate retaliation. If that was the case then why would the Iranian anti-air defence be primed and trigger-happy to gun down anything that might or might not have been an enemy aircraft
I dont think western countries want war, but it wouldn't have surprised me to see limited military retaliation after such an event. I certainly would have thought that the language would have been very very different. Trump not going off the deep end in any answer/speech is a minor miracle in itself, but answering so restrained after such an event is very surprising. I would have expected very very strong condemnation coupled with at least some symbolic action from the western leaders.
If it was 60 Americans who died instead of 60 Canadians there would have been a much different reaction.