[Putin laughs]
Iran Plane Crash and Subsequent Protests
- Thread starter Fergies Gum
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Why would you expect military action? No military action was taken when the Americans and Russians shot down passenger planes.
Now, we've all seen the video, but the truth is: no one is openly saying it was a missile. Every media source says "employees form US/UK/Canada/etc governement" without naming anyone specifically.
Let's all wait for the investigation to move on.
Let's all wait for the investigation to move on.
Well the premise seemed to be that western cultures also don't idolise people they have never met and wouldn't go out in the streets with pictures of this person mourning their death and idolising their life.
All I'm saying is this happens on a regular basis. As for a politician, no I doubt that would be happening, maybe if Obama was killed by a bomb in Afghanistan while visiting troops their would be a mass outcry and pictures and stuff from people that never met him. Definitely not Boris Johnson though.
Well, one theory is that they shot that plane down in expectation of an incoming barrage of missles by the US in hopes that they could pin it on us.
I'm not promoting that as "what happened", just relaying what folks are talking about.
Another theory is they were closing down the airspace but the plane was late leaving it, possibly leaving the base with an unauthorized object in the sky to consider because as far as they were concerned there wasn't supposed to be a plane there.
Wouldn't be surprised if it's something as frustratingly simple as that, like many tragedies.
Wouldn't be surprised if it's something as frustratingly simple as that, like many tragedies.
I read that and initially seemed plausible, but then did a quick google and FlightRadar24 blog has already charted out that there were other aircraft that had departed through the night (although just 10 from midnight local until 6:12 when 752 departed). Last aircraft had departed about 30 mins before. All had followed very similar path.
https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/...2-crashes-shortly-after-take-off-from-tehran/
Eventual departure was an hour late though due to two passengers either not boarding or being denied boarding ( not yet clear which ) and their bags having to be unloaded, although this is probably a red herring in the big picture.
Cui bono from this event?
Unless I’ve missed something, nobody really does, certainly not Iran.
it’s been accidentally shot down or it’s a fantastic coincidence that it just happened to occur at the same time as it was all kicking off.
Occam’s razor says accidentally shot down.
Unless I’ve missed something, nobody really does, certainly not Iran.
it’s been accidentally shot down or it’s a fantastic coincidence that it just happened to occur at the same time as it was all kicking off.
Occam’s razor says accidentally shot down.
It would definitely pain Iran as an obvious bad guy in this whole situation and help Trump come out looking even better domestically.
Diana, though? There are also some other examples in western cultures, it's just that generally we identify those as the good guys (which they generally were), which is not something we do for this guy. We probably shouldn't either, but some Iranians apparently see things differently.
The context in all these cases is different.
I would have expected that shooting down a plane would be seen as extremely serious escalation and these kind of situations can get their own dynamic especially with fairly unpredictable leaders. When the US and Iran exchanged military pleasantries, many posters here (and parts of the media) were super worried (imo rightfully), that any misstep from either side could spiral out of control.
Just to make sure, that I dont get misunderstood. I am very glad that this doesn't lead to any substantial escalation. At the same time I think that this is a genuinely shocking act from the Iranian government and regardless of intention (if thats what happened).
No nation shoots down commercial airliners intentionally in their own airspace. At best the few cases of this in history are cases of mistaken identity and at worst nerves, stupidity or a combination of both.
That seems incredibly unlikely. It will be a feck up if (as seems likely) it was shot down.
Wait til a royal dies.
Exactly that.
Had plans to go to Iran this year. Just nixed them.
Iran is ace. Fcuked up politically, but beautiful to experience and travel through.
Iranian state TV confirms it was accidentally shot down by Iranian missiles due to human error.
What a tragic and unnecessary loss of life...
What a tragic and unnecessary loss of life...
So confirmed now, and this story while tragic will likely be swept under the carpet in a week or so. Just like the last one to be shot down, I doubt anything will actually come out of the mistake.
not sure how it could be moving towards a "sensitive military center" when it took off the Tehran airport two minutes before
Awful to hear this.
At least they owned up to their mistake and apologized, unlike other instances where militaries shoot down civilian aircraft...
At least they owned up to their mistake and apologized, unlike other instances where militaries shoot down civilian aircraft...
Honestly though, who actually is surprised? It seemed obvious right from the start that it was indeed Iran.
Yup. Worse than believing conspiracy theories by 16 year olds.- Why would iranians kill their people?
- Why would they kill Canadians, surely they are not that bad at geography?
- Missplacing a commercial fight for some combat plane is ridiculous and amateurish, I have heard people here talking about how well equipped Iran is, so this would be a childish error
- Even if they missplaced it(but still not believing it), surely they wouldn't missplace the plane that just took off from their airport, that's just ridiculous, have people actually read anything on this before believimg the shit we got served in the news
I mean, we had amateur terrorists taking over a plane and crashing it into a building but yet well equipped Iranians aren't supposed to differentiate commercial flights - on their own field few km away from their airport
- Americans have so many reasons to tell the world it was Iran who shot it down - people forget that Boeing had their fair share of problems and looks like everyone here is ignoring the fact that Boeing is one of America's biggest and most famous companies, even if they prove it was broke, they will still make us all believe it was shot down by Iran
- America will never allow another scandal involving Boeing, another one of these can literally destroy the company.
- France and UK literally supported USA's terroristic attack few days ago, and we are supposed to believe their objective view on this plane crash?
Yeah, I am done here. This is worse than people believing conspiracy theories made on youtube by 16 year olds.
Oh yeah, it's pretty clear alright from the 240p video that someone made, basic physics
At least they owned up to it. The families still need justice. Someone needs to be held responsible.
What kind of justice can you get exactly? We’re not at war, but one countries military shot down a commercial airplane. Presumably there’s some criminal case to follow?
At minimum there should be monetary compensation. Hard to see what else will be done as I dont necessarily see them jailing anyone over this (maybe firing decision makers over shutting down civilian airspace traffic).
New York Times claims to have a video showing the missile strike.
And followed several other commercial airliners which flew the same flight path in the preceding hours.
Well it was either Iran or another agency.
In this case Iran.
3-4 children died didnt they. If there is a war that will be fraction of the cost. Those seeking war should be treated like anyone else seeking to kill children IMO
"Why would Iranians kill their people?" Their government killed 1500 of their own people in recent protests.- Why would iranians kill their people?
- Why would they kill Canadians, surely they are not that bad at geography?
- Missplacing a commercial fight for some combat plane is ridiculous and amateurish, I have heard people here talking about how well equipped Iran is, so this would be a childish error
- Even if they missplaced it(but still not believing it), surely they wouldn't missplace the plane that just took off from their airport, that's just ridiculous, have people actually read anything on this before believimg the shit we got served in the news
I mean, we had amateur terrorists taking over a plane and crashing it into a building but yet well equipped Iranians aren't supposed to differentiate commercial flights - on their own field few km away from their airport
- Americans have so many reasons to tell the world it was Iran who shot it down - people forget that Boeing had their fair share of problems and looks like everyone here is ignoring the fact that Boeing is one of America's biggest and most famous companies, even if they prove it was broke, they will still make us all believe it was shot down by Iran
- America will never allow another scandal involving Boeing, another one of these can literally destroy the company.
- France and UK literally supported USA's terroristic attack few days ago, and we are supposed to believe their objective view on this plane crash?
Yeah, I am done here. This is worse than people believing conspiracy theories made on youtube by 16 year olds.
Oh yeah, it's pretty clear alright from the 240p video that someone made, basic physics
Also Iran have taken responsibility for it now. But Occams Razor says that it being shot down is the likely answer, which has been shown to be true - hardly a 'conspiracy theory' as much as the most logical outcome. The real conspiracy theory is trying to say that America would cover it up and claim that Iran shot it down despite that being incredibly easy to disprove given that Iran have the black box and the debris, just to protect Boeing because they're an American company. That's a real reach.
If you look at the situation objectively, Iran knew US fighter planes were in the air in response to their airstrike and were on high alert and so the notion that their anti air defences accidentally shot down the wrong plane, where there's a video of it happening (of course it's going to be low quality it was done on a mobile phone, do you think someone had a 4k recorder pointed at the sky? That would be less believable if you have that quality of footage) and they immediately banned anyone from coming to look at the crash site, took the black box and said they won't turn it over, cleared the site with bulldozers before they let Ukraine take a look, the logical outcome is that Iran fecked up hence the subsequent shady behaviour. To jump to 'America are actually covering up for Boeing here' is a conspiracy theory and absurd, because if that were the case Iran would publish the results from the black box immediately and show footage of the missile impact to counter the American narrative.
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Check earlier in the thread or the post above!
Devasting for the families.
@Amar__ and his views on this are rather odd. Right from the start, this looked exactly like what went down with Malaysian Airlines over Ukraine. It was way too much of a coincidence for a plane to go down the same hour that missiles are flying around.
Reading my post one or two days ago, and responding to it only after Iran admit the guilt, seems very smart. Well done.
Also most of that you are saying doesn't make any sense either considering they just admitted they did it, so why would they covered it all up if they would admit it just after 2 says. You are basically acting same as I did two days ago.
Because the evidence revealed in the last two days was so overwhelming that it couldn’t be denied any longer.
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Whole thread is worth a read
What an incredible feckup by Iran's military. I'm still kinda baffled.
In 40 years of lows after lows, I think this is the lowest point.
Easily the worst gov't/regime in the world....surely this terrible nightmare has to end sometime?
I wish we could do a time travel and Shah would kill Khomeini in 1964 instead of sending him to exile....So wish Shah acted like the "Brutal dictator" there.
So the hard revenge was just killing more Iranians....the art the regime is master of.
Easily the worst gov't/regime in the world....surely this terrible nightmare has to end sometime?
I wish we could do a time travel and Shah would kill Khomeini in 1964 instead of sending him to exile....So wish Shah acted like the "Brutal dictator" there.
So the hard revenge was just killing more Iranians....the art the regime is master of.
The facts I stated were evident days ago and how Iran were behaving at the time. So at that time it was a stretch to claim that it was an American conspiracy easily disproven to somehow shield Boeing from some kind of damage. The only thing that's changed since then is that they admitted guilt.
I also didn't read your post and ignore it until today, I read it for the first time when I replied. The main part that grabbed my attention was asking why Iran would kill their own people, when they're pretty well known for doing exactly that recently when they killed 1500 of their own citizens without a care during the protests.