Iran Plane Crash and Subsequent Protests

[Redplane]

It was cleared what shot the plane, pretty clear who dun it, if no one's taking action then it's not the investigators vault

Russia/or some group launched a massive campaign online to discredit it and refused to acknowledge it was either Russian equipment or someone affiliated with them. They put a ton of pressure to suppress the official investigation report etc which was all pretty well reported I thought. I'm pretty sure both the Dutch and Australian government issued statements about this. There were also statements about not gaining the access that was needed to conduct a proper investigation.

 

[Sky1981]

Russia/or some group launched a massive campaign online to discredit it and refused to acknowledge it was either Russian equipment or someone affiliated with them. They put a ton of pressure to suppress the official investigation report etc which was all pretty well reported I thought. I'm pretty sure both the Dutch and Australian government issued statements about this. There were also statements about not gaining the access that was needed to conduct a proper investigation.

Don't recall reading any, perhaps I don't read Russians. They just keep quiet.

 

[Zarlak]

Why on Earth were Tehran allowing civilian flights at a time when they just launched a missile strike and had knowledge that US fighters were in the air having taken off from the UAE? They even scrambled their own fighters in response. Close the airspace.

 

[TheReligion]

Who will in turn hand it over to a processing facility in the US, likely because it was an American built aircraft.

So what's the answer? They keep it to themselves? Unfortunately that's not how air disasters work. The box information needs sharing irrespective of politics. The aviation authority need to be able to understand what happened and more importantly if there are further issues or plants in circulation which are defective.

Iran looks the guilty party here to me whichever way you look at this. The only way to clear their name is to at least try and be transparent.

 

[Florida Man]

Something about this just feels very odd about this:

Iran launches numerous missiles that somehow not only don't get intercepted - they travel all the way to the base and somehow they targeted them so precisely not a single soul was hurt.

Iran issues threat that it will not only level Dubai and Hafai if US retaliates - it had also issued a threat to attack America on its own soil.

You would think any nation - but especially the US and POTUS would have some very very harsh words at the very very least. Instead we get kumbaya and something like: oh well - silly Iran. But they told us they re done now so it's all good.

Oh and BTW let's have a new agreement after we just tore up the old to make Iran abide by it. Even though we first said we don't trust Iran at all. Yet they "attack" us and a plane magically goes down at the same time and Iran can now be trusted. Let's not forget the statement about enormous untapped potential in Iran and that they re good people now.

First large plane crash to occur in quite a while - world leaders - Trump in particular seeing how he had the eyes of the world on him - don't say much or anything at all about it right after. Not even acknowledging it. Zilch. Even though the loss of human life is a terrible thing and we just bragged about how no one was hurt in the attacks.

Right away a first video shows up that seems to show the explosion but that one is quickly forgotten because we can't tell a missile hit it. Not clearly anyway. Not talked about again.

New video suddenly comes out that is about as clear a evidence of a missile striking it as you could possibly hope to get. Remember-missiles go fast - it's pitch black outside and someone just happened to have a rather quick set of hands and ability to focus in the middle of what looks like some God forsaken neighborhood.

Iran instantly decides to not hand over black boxes and there is probably less left of this aircraft than planes that were also downed. But those black boxes were found intact and pretty quick I guess?

Some voices go up that Iran was in fact responsible for this. But no wait - it was an Iranian missile. We re not saying Iran right. Iran doesn't seem to be upset by the accusations. In fact they are surprisingly mellow about it all it seems.

Trudeau holds a press conference and is quick to point out this could very well have been unintentional. How often does a leader say that right out of the gates instead of simply saying - it appears an Iranian missile downed the aircraft - we are committed to finding out everything there is to know and hold those accountable who are responsible for this.. Or at least not immediately bring up the assumption it could have been unintentional when you re dealing with a nation that just lost a significant number of its citizens in the crash. Oh well - right?

Am I going crazy?

I'm with you all the way on this post. The bolded part is my exact thought too. Like yeah, someone just casually whips out a phone to catch a missile in the middle of the night and the news outlets reporting that are going, "yep, that's all the evidence I need."

We live in a time where deep fakes look real in high definition lighting. We also live in a world where superpowers like the US have covert operations going on around the world and definitely operate in areas of conflict long before news talks about it. There was already one poster who referenced the expert on CNN who didn't believe it was a missile strike based on the pieces on the ground.

I have no idea what actually happened, and I don't think we're going to find out the real truth. I just have a strong feeling that whatever the US is reporting is bullshit.

 

[Zarlak]

I'm with you all the way on this post. The bolded part is my exact thought too. Like yeah, someone just casually whips out a phone to catch a missile in the middle of the night and the news outlets reporting that are going, "yep, that's all the evidence I need."

We live in a time where deep fakes look real in high definition lighting. We also live in a world where superpowers like the US have covert operations going on around the world and definitely operate in areas of conflict long before news talks about it. There was already one poster who referenced the expert on CNN who didn't believe it was a missile strike based on the pieces on the ground.

I have no idea what actually happened, and I don't think we're going to find out the real truth. I just have a strong feeling that whatever the US is reporting is bullshit.

It was confirmed by NATO and the journalist that two missiles were fired. They saw/heard the first one, took their phone out and video taped the second one. The US, Canada, Ukraine and the UK have all said their intelligence shows it was a missile strike, Iran are refusing to let anyone in, refusing to hand over the black box - no surprise after they milked the US shooting down their plane in 88 for the last 30 years only to do the same thing themselves.

 

[Sky1981]

So what's the answer? They keep it to themselves? Unfortunately that's not how air disasters work. The box information needs sharing irrespective of politics. The aviation authority need to be able to understand what happened and more importantly if there are further issues or plants in circulation which are defective.

Iran looks the guilty party here to me whichever way you look at this. The only way to clear their name is to at least try and be transparent.

The black box isn't a big secret, copies of its recording can be made, and before long people who needs to know would have heard it. If Iran indeed strike the missile there's no way they can hide it, not with American hot on their ass. On the flip of the coin the US too can't make shits up.

But definitely, One party is lying, at this rate it's almost certain it's a missile.

American says it's Iran
Iran denies
Implication : One of them is lying

 

[Hanks]

One of my classmates from grades 6-9 was on the plane with his wife....he actually posted 2 hours before take-off on Instagram about how hard it is to leave the home land and leave all the loved ones behind, but life goes on and this is a new chapter and he has faith in god.

Many many young and brilliant minds...including 2 Sharif Uni. Alumni, olympiad winners who had just come to Iran for their wedding and had gotten married 3 nights ago. It's surreal watching the wedding clip now.

What shame.

And jesus, some people's "Western Derangement Syndrom" is off the chart. They'd go to every single length to blame everything on West. Why can't more people be balanced and not see things in black/white matter?

Hopefully the truth will come out, (I very much believe that Iran shot down the plane, most probably by mistake)....I doubt Trudeau will let it slide (brilliant coverage of victims in Canadian media by the way, much more caring than the IR media itself), and also Ukrainian Airlines isn't exactly the richest airline in the world to pay insurance for all victims and suffer such reputation damage, so they'd want the truth.

All in all...looks like during Islamic Republic's "Hard Revenge" (Enteghame-Sakht) mission, about 225 Iranians ended up being killed. 56 at the stampede, and 176 here. What a feck up, what terrible loss of brilliant minds....hopefully one day some sort of positive news will come out of my country. Very unlikely as long as these inept, corrupt, and soulless dinosaurs in charge.

 

[legolegs]

It was confirmed by NATO and the journalist that two missiles were fired. They saw/heard the first one, took their phone out and video taped the second one. The US, Canada, Ukraine and the UK have all said their intelligence shows it was a missile strike, Iran are refusing to let anyone in, refusing to hand over the black box - no surprise after they milked the US shooting down their plane in 88 for the last 30 years only to do the same thing themselves.

Iran have invited several countries to take part in the investigation including the US (the NTSB who also confirmed they accepted the invitation)?

 

[11101]

Iran have invited several countries to take part in the investigation including the US (the NTSB who also confirmed they accepted the invitation)?

That's happened in the last hours. They were initially refusing to let anybody look at it.

 

[Zarlak]

Iran have invited several countries to take part in the investigation including the US (the NTSB who also confirmed they accepted the invitation)?

Yes, after they got in and cleaned up already after initially refusing to allow anyone to look.

 

[11101]

Iran launches numerous missiles that somehow not only don't get intercepted - they travel all the way to the base and somehow they targeted them so precisely not a single soul was hurt.

New video suddenly comes out that is about as clear a evidence of a missile striking it as you could possibly hope to get. Remember-missiles go fast - it's pitch black outside and someone just happened to have a rather quick set of hands and ability to focus in the middle of what looks like some God forsaken neighborhood.

Iran instantly decides to not hand over black boxes and there is probably less left of this aircraft than planes that were also downed. But those black boxes were found intact and pretty quick I guess?

Plenty of reasonable explanations for the above.

- There isn't much that could intercept a ballistic missile in that area, the US Patriot systems are located elsewhere to protect major bases. Iran would know where they were as they're not exactly inconspicuous. They also targeted the attacks to cause minimal damage as they know killing US troops would not be a good idea.

- Missiles travel fast but not that fast, from a distance you can still easily follow them. Plus, there were two fired. The first one would have alerted anybody to something going on.

- Black boxes will survive almost any crash and in land accidents they are found easily due to their transmitters. It's accidents in water where they are difficult to find.

 

[legolegs]

That's happened in the last hours. They were initially refusing to let anybody look at it.

Yeah I know.

Yes, after they got in and cleaned up already after initially refusing to allow anyone to look.

I'm really not an expert when it comes to planes that have been shot down but shouldn't you still be able to tell if a plane was hit by a missile?

 

[Sky1981]

Yes, after they got in and cleaned up already after initially refusing to allow anyone to look.

You can't clean up crash of this proportion. Not when there'll be forensics involved.

You can clean sweep the whole thing, but to make traces of missiles disappear and left everything intact is something not even hollywood wildest scifi can pull. You also can't tamper with the blackbox that much since it's a two ways communications and checks and rechecks will be done to make sure it's authentic.

 

[Florida Man]

It was confirmed by NATO and the journalist that two missiles were fired. They saw/heard the first one, took their phone out and video taped the second one. The US, Canada, Ukraine and the UK have all said their intelligence shows it was a missile strike, Iran are refusing to let anyone in, refusing to hand over the black box - no surprise after they milked the US shooting down their plane in 88 for the last 30 years only to do the same thing themselves.

I missed that part so a video recording could make sense. Still, I am skeptical of the reporting on this. Will have to give it more time to see the results of the investigation(s).

 

[Zlatattack]

Looking at the Iranians reaction, I reckon they shot it down by mistake. Otherwise why hold onto the black box? Share copies of the recording.

 

[11101]

Yeah I know.

I'm really not an expert when it comes to planes that have been shot down but shouldn't you still be able to tell if a plane was hit by a missile?

The likely result is the NTSB say the site has been tampered with, authorities aren't fully cooperating, and it's not possible to accurately determine a cause.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

So Iran's response to America assassinating their general is to shoot down a plan full of their own civilians? This is Tyson Fury punching himself in the face levels of stupid.

What an absolutely awful way to go. Can't fathom the kind of cnut that could live with themselves after that.

 

[Bestie07]

So Iran's response to America assassinating their general is to shoot down a plan full of their own civilians? This is Tyson Fury punching himself in the face levels of stupid.

What an absolutely awful way to go. Can't fathom the kind of cnut that could live with themselves after that.

Would most definitely not have been on purpose.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Would most definitely not have been on purpose.

Neither was Tyson Fury punching himself in the face tbf.

 

[Zippy20]

Iran already invited the Ukraine to take part in the investigation, which obviously includes sharing the black box information with them as confirmed by the Ukrainian NBAAI.
That happened yesterday, not during the last hours. They never refused anyone to look.
During the last hours, they invited others to take part as well.
That's as transparent as it gets in my opinion.
While i do think the plane was likely shot down, the Iranian post-crash reactions don't indicate that they have something to hide.

 

[muller]

Iran already invited the Ukraine to take part in the investigation, which obviously includes sharing the black box information with them as confirmed by the Ukrainian NBAAI.
That happened yesterday, not during the last hours. They never refused anyone to look.
During the last hours, they invited others to take part as well.
That's as transparent as it gets in my opinion.
While i do think the plane was likely shot down, the Iranian post-crash reactions don't indicate that they have something to hide.

They literally refused to give over the black box to the relevant authority, in this case, Boeing.

https://www.ft.com/content/67414762-31d6-11ea-9703-eea0cae3f0de

It was probably an accident, but they still launched a missile, on purpose, and downed a civilian jet, by accident. Them heel turning now and giving a limit of access screams of a cover up.

 

[Sky1981]

They literally refused to give over the black box to the relevant authority, in this case, Boeing.

https://www.ft.com/content/67414762-31d6-11ea-9703-eea0cae3f0de

It was probably an accident, but they still launched a missile, on purpose, and downed a civilian jet, by accident. Them heel turning now and giving a limit of access screams of a cover up.

Boeing? Off course, who'd trust them not to tamper with evidence.

Even commercial airlines don't trust them with their Airmax investigation

 

[fergieisold]

i already replied but just realised that, as someone else said, that people are sometimes brainwashed in unfortunate ways. so, to try and bring some light to those in the dark:
Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas, that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed and all 290 people on board, including 66 children, were killed.[1] The jet was hit while flying over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, along the flight's usual route, shortly after departing Bandar Abbas International Airport, the flight's stopover location. Vincennes had entered Iranian territory after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits.

let alone multiple unilateral invasions since then

I watched a documentary on this some time ago. Devastating for those involved!

 

[The Firestarter]

So Iran's response to America assassinating their general is to shoot down a plan full of their own civilians? This is Tyson Fury punching himself in the face levels of stupid.

What an absolutely awful way to go. Can't fathom the kind of cnut that could live with themselves after that.

That's not at all their intended response. As with the other cases in history , no one shoots a plane of civilians knowingly. Well, maybe the Soviets did know but that's something we will never find out .

 

[fergieisold]

Wait... what?

Nuclear weapons are an abomination and a major blight on history as a whole. We have literally created a weapon that would see the world come to an end for what has merely become a dick measuring contest amongst countries. There is no way these types of weapons will ever be used so what is the purpose of their construction? How about instead of relying on weapons of mass destruction, we focus on diplomacy and not fecking each other over? Or better yet, the US feck off out of areas of interest that dont concern them other than for commercial gain, enhance the peace keeping function of the UN and everybody gets on with life and the "defence" forces actually become just that rather than a means to enforce presence in commercial viable areas.

I’m undecided on nuclear weapons. Isn’t there some theory about mutual assures destruction? I might be getting this completely wrong but it keeps things peaceful...maybe.

 

[fergieisold]

Iran already invited the Ukraine to take part in the investigation, which obviously includes sharing the black box information with them as confirmed by the Ukrainian NBAAI.
That happened yesterday, not during the last hours. They never refused anyone to look.
During the last hours, they invited others to take part as well.
That's as transparent as it gets in my opinion.
While i do think the plane was likely shot down, the Iranian post-crash reactions don't indicate that they have something to hide.

well they do have something to hide. They shot an airliner down. Whether they are trying to hide it or not is a different story.

 

[Rajma]

I'm not sure what people argue here? There's literally a video evidence of missile hitting the plane.

 

[Darkhorsez]

One of my classmates from grades 6-9 was on the plane with his wife....he actually posted 2 hours before take-off on Instagram about how hard it is to leave the home land and leave all the loved ones behind, but life goes on and this is a new chapter and he has faith in god.

Many many young and brilliant minds...including 2 Sharif Uni. Alumni, olympiad winners who had just come to Iran for their wedding and had gotten married 3 nights ago. It's surreal watching the wedding clip now.

What shame.

And jesus, some people's "Western Derangement Syndrom" is off the chart. They'd go to every single length to blame everything on West. Why can't more people be balanced and not see things in black/white matter?

Hopefully the truth will come out, (I very much believe that Iran shot down the plane, most probably by mistake)....I doubt Trudeau will let it slide (brilliant coverage of victims in Canadian media by the way, much more caring than the IR media itself), and also Ukrainian Airlines isn't exactly the richest airline in the world to pay insurance for all victims and suffer such reputation damage, so they'd want the truth.

All in all...looks like during Islamic Republic's "Hard Revenge" (Enteghame-Sakht) mission, about 225 Iranians ended up being killed. 56 at the stampede, and 176 here. What a feck up, what terrible loss of brilliant minds....hopefully one day some sort of positive news will come out of my country. Very unlikely as long as these inept, corrupt, and soulless dinosaurs in charge.

So sorry to read this. I also knew some of the people on the flight. Devastating loss of lives. May they all RIP.

 

[Rajma]

Iran already invited the Ukraine to take part in the investigation, which obviously includes sharing the black box information with them as confirmed by the Ukrainian NBAAI.
That happened yesterday, not during the last hours. They never refused anyone to look.
During the last hours, they invited others to take part as well.
That's as transparent as it gets in my opinion.
While i do think the plane was likely shot down, the Iranian post-crash reactions don't indicate that they have something to hide.

Have you not seen actual video footage of missile crashing into the plane?

 

[2cents]

I'm not sure what people argue here? There's literally a video evidence of missile hitting the plane.

The Iraq War pretty much put an end to people believing anything. Certainly if it comes from Washington anyway.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Two main scenarios:

1. An error related to the Russian made IRANIAN missile system with identifying the friend/foe. Most likely on highest alert setting given the short timeframe from the attack on the American base in Iraq. And the system identified the plan as a foe. Badabing badaboom...

2. The system was hacked by someone who would benefit from an escalation of the current situation. This could be many countries.

Don't think Iran shoot it down with intent as it would be to obvious.

 

[hobbers]

Also it's not like some General somewhere will have made a call on whether to launch missiles at the plane or not, like some people seem to think. These systems are to a large extent autonomous for obvious reasons.

 

[2mufc0]

Also it's not like some General somewhere will have made a call on whether to launch missiles at the plane or not, like some people seem to think. These systems are to a large extent autonomous for obvious reasons.

Could be hacked as the poster above said. Most likely it was a massive cock up as the Iranians would have been on edge after bombing the US base.

 

[MadMike]

Also it's not like some General somewhere will have made a call on whether to launch missiles at the plane or not, like some people seem to think. These systems are to a large extent autonomous for obvious reasons.

Source? I served in the artillery on the M270 MLRS (Multiple Launch Rocket System) and while the information gathering and analysis that the system does for you is humongous, it still required physical human actions to fire missiles. I'm not saying that the Iranian system is the same, but my experience is that it's a core design principle of weapons systems in general to require some form of human interaction to fire. For obvious reasons.

 

[Dans]

One of my classmates from grades 6-9 was on the plane with his wife....he actually posted 2 hours before take-off on Instagram about how hard it is to leave the home land and leave all the loved ones behind, but life goes on and this is a new chapter and he has faith in god.

Many many young and brilliant minds...including 2 Sharif Uni. Alumni, olympiad winners who had just come to Iran for their wedding and had gotten married 3 nights ago. It's surreal watching the wedding clip now.

What shame.

And jesus, some people's "Western Derangement Syndrom" is off the chart. They'd go to every single length to blame everything on West. Why can't more people be balanced and not see things in black/white matter?

Hopefully the truth will come out, (I very much believe that Iran shot down the plane, most probably by mistake)....I doubt Trudeau will let it slide (brilliant coverage of victims in Canadian media by the way, much more caring than the IR media itself), and also Ukrainian Airlines isn't exactly the richest airline in the world to pay insurance for all victims and suffer such reputation damage, so they'd want the truth.

All in all...looks like during Islamic Republic's "Hard Revenge" (Enteghame-Sakht) mission, about 225 Iranians ended up being killed. 56 at the stampede, and 176 here. What a feck up, what terrible loss of brilliant minds....hopefully one day some sort of positive news will come out of my country. Very unlikely as long as these inept, corrupt, and soulless dinosaurs in charge.

Tragic indeed.

I have two observations: 1 - if it wasn't intentional, what was the intention? i.e. was this a case of mistaken identity, because if it was, clearly a USAF or US Passenger carrying plane was the intended target which means the revenge is not yet complete (although after this feck up it may will be). 2 - you mention the soulless, inept dinosaurs, but is there an appetite, or enough of one, within Iran to see a real change?

 

[Hanks]

Tragic indeed.

I have two observations: 1 - if it wasn't intentional, what was the intention? i.e. was this a case of mistaken identity, because if it was, clearly a USAF or US Passenger carrying plane was the intended target which means the revenge is not yet complete (although after this feck up it may will be). 2 - you mention the soulless, inept dinosaurs, but is there an appetite, or enough of one, within Iran to see a real change?

We literally had our strongest and most widespread protests in almost 40 years 2 months ago, where the regime shut down the internet for over a week and slaughtered over 1000 protestors. Literally sniper shots.

To the point that when Iraq was having similar, continuous protests a few weeks earlier, Soleimani went there and joked about how "Iraqis don't know how to deal with protestors"

I don't know how the current events have changed the mood. But all this notion of "unifying everyone" behind the flag over a common "martyr" might go to the wind with this whole Ukrainian airline shooting scandal. And in a week when people forget and go shopping and see how prices are so high and economic situation hard, then who knows.

One thing is for sure.....regime definitely wanted to ride the wave of "Soleimani's martyrdom" for a long time to silent any dissent, bring everyone against the "Enemy".....but now the narrative has quickly changed to the airline crash/shooting that's robbed them off all the PR. As usual, only time will tell.

 

[The Firestarter]

Also it's not like some General somewhere will have made a call on whether to launch missiles at the plane or not, like some people seem to think. These systems are to a large extent autonomous for obvious reasons.

What a load of nonsense. Only certain specific systems are expected to operate in such a way. Such as Phalanx CIWS that sits on the decks of ships and targets incoming missiles.

 

[Dans]

We literally had our strongest and most widespread protests in almost 40 years 2 months ago, where the regime shut down the internet for over a week and slaughtered over 1000 protestors. Literally sniper shots.

To the point that when Iraq was having similar, continuous protests a few weeks earlier, Soleimani went there and joked about how "Iraqis don't know how to deal with protestors"

I don't know how the current events have changed the mood. But all this notion of "unifying everyone" behind the flag over a common "martyr" might go to the wind with this whole Ukrainian airline shooting scandal. And in a week when people forget and go shopping and see how prices are so high and economic situation hard, then who knows.

One thing is for sure.....regime definitely wanted to ride the wave of "Soleimani's martyrdom" for a long time to silent any dissent, bring everyone against the "Enemy".....but now the narrative has quickly changed to the airline crash/shooting that's robbed them off all the PR. As usual, only time will tell.

What an absolute mess. Such a shame. One of the only things Trump has said that I agree with (although he probably didn't really mean it) was that Iran had so much unfullfilled potential. If only this region could be stable and rid of it's constant troubles.

As an Iranian, can you explain to me why there is such a culture of hero worship in the arab speaking worlds? This holding up of pictures of strongmen, this outpouring of what seems to be massively over exaggerated grief for someone who they have never met etc etc - all so alien to me.

 

[africanspur]

@Dans Just so you know, Iran is not an Arabic speaking country but Farsi, with its own unique history/ language etc.

Most Iranians don't like to be called Arabs.

I think it is difficult to explain to a Westerner to be honest. How many peoples around the world, in the ME, East Asia, Africa etc look at these things.

Perhaps most fundamentally, it stems at its most basic from a different outlook on things like the family unit and society in general? A more collectivist look than that seen in most Western countries and an importance assigned to a strong (often male) figure within the family unit or the country as a whole.