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Where's the hand on forehead whatsapp emoji when you need it!@Dans Just so you know, Iran is not an Arabic speaking country but Farsi, with its own unique history/ language etc.
Most Iranians don't like to be called Arabs.
I think it is difficult to explain to a Westerner to be honest. How many peoples around the world, in the ME, East Asia, Africa etc look at these things.
Perhaps most fundamentally, it stems at its most basic from a different outlook on things like the family unit and society in general? A more collectivist look than that seen in most Western countries and an importance assigned to a strong (often male) figure within the family unit or the country as a whole.
But it's about this isn't it? This is where so much of the world lags behind, for whichever reason, but this heroworshipping of the strong male figurehead is something to move on from. It takes time and a massive cultural shift obviously, but the lack of the ability for women to be accepted into strong roles is what handicaps so much of the world in my opinion. We took a long time to get where we are in the west today (and we are still not far enough generally and still plenty backward in many places) but this lack of progress on empowering women and shifting the focus from strong male figureheads is going to leave so much of the world at the mercy of dick measurers.@Dans Just so you know, Iran is not an Arabic speaking country but Farsi, with its own unique history/ language etc.
Most Iranians don't like to be called Arabs.
I think it is difficult to explain to a Westerner to be honest. How many peoples around the world, in the ME, East Asia, Africa etc look at these things.
Perhaps most fundamentally, it stems at its most basic from a different outlook on things like the family unit and society in general? A more collectivist look than that seen in most Western countries and an importance assigned to a strong (often male) figure within the family unit or the country as a whole.
Won't change to a truly meaningful level of equality until religions are modernised/amended/redundant.But it's about this isn't it? This is where so much of the world lags behind, for whichever reason, but this heroworshipping of the strong male figurehead is something to move on from. It takes time and a massive cultural shift obviously, but the lack of the ability for women to be accepted into strong roles is what handicaps so much of the world in my opinion. We took a long time to get where we are in the west today (and we are still not far enough generally and still plenty backward in many places) but this lack of progress on empowering women and shifting the focus from strong male figureheads is going to leave so much of the world at the mercy of dick measurers.
Well, it will have to because, sadly, religions will not be modernised/amended/redundant any time ever.Won't change to a truly meaningful level of equality until religions are modernised/amended/redundant.
Sadly, agreed.Well, it will have to because, sadly, religions will not be modernised/amended/redundant any time ever.
I see things like this in western culture. Outpouring of grief for someone people never met is what Western people do every time one of their favourite celebrities that they have never met dies. See Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, Princess Diana just to name a few.What an absolute mess. Such a shame. One of the only things Trump has said that I agree with (although he probably didn't really mean it) was that Iran had so much unfullfilled potential. If only this region could be stable and rid of it's constant troubles.
As an Iranian, can you explain to me why there is such a culture of hero worship in the arab speaking worlds? This holding up of pictures of strongmen, this outpouring of what seems to be massively over exaggerated grief for someone who they have never met etc etc - all so alien to me.
Diana aside, I can't remember huge crowds outside on the streets. (Apart from class 4B who has finally been released from Neverland's pool house)I see things like this in western culture. Outpouring of grief for someone people never met is what Western people do every time one of their favourite celebrities that they have never met dies. See Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, Princess Diana just to name a few.
Fandom. Not quite the same, but similar I grant you. Not by any stretch on the same scale though is it?I see things like this in western culture. Outpouring of grief for someone people never met is what Western people do every time one of their favourite celebrities that they have never met dies. See Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, Princess Diana just to name a few.
That has to be one of the most ironic or ignorant posts of this thread.What an absolute mess. Such a shame. One of the only things Trump has said that I agree with (although he probably didn't really mean it) was that Iran had so much unfullfilled potential. If only this region could be stable and rid of it's constant troubles.
As an Iranian, can you explain to me why there is such a culture of hero worship in the arab speaking worlds? This holding up of pictures of strongmen, this outpouring of what seems to be massively over exaggerated grief for someone who they have never met etc etc - all so alien to me.
I am genuinely baffled by your post.That has to be one of the most ironic or ignorant posts of this thread.
Agreeing with Trump about unfulfilled potential and hoping for peace in the region when the Americans (and Saudis) are the single greatest cause for unrest in that region.
One of the main purposes of Iran pushing back on America was to kick them out of the region! Which pretty much every country there wants, other than Saudi and Israel because of their own interests.
But oh! Poor Americans! Only wish for peace and prosperity in the Middle East.
If Barrack Obama tragically died tomorrow there would probably be commotion in major american cities and possibly even some others around the world. Besides the national holiday and state funeral that goes with the death of any US president.Diana aside, I can't remember huge crowds outside on the streets. (Apart from class 4B who has finally been released from Neverland's pool house)
Maybe its the circumstance, a difference culture, but even if Boris Johnson died tomorrow, I can't see millions lining every street?
I really don't think he was defending Trump or America's actions. Instability caused by internal and external sources. Maybe have a cuppa..That has to be one of the most ironic or ignorant posts of this thread.
Agreeing with Trump about unfulfilled potential and hoping for peace in the region when the Americans (and Saudis) are the single greatest cause for unrest in that region.
One of the main purposes of Iran pushing back on America was to kick them out of the region! Which pretty much every country there wants, other than Saudi and Israel because of their own interests.
But oh! Poor Americans! Only wish for peace and prosperity in the Middle East.
That's true, good point.If Barrack Obama tragically died tomorrow there would probably be commotion in major american cities and possibly even some others around the world. Besides the national holiday and state funeral that goes with the death of any US president.
Okay, I apologize for the personal attack. I thought you were insinuating that Iran was to blame if the instability.I am genuinely baffled by your post.
I never agree with Trump, but he said Iran is a country with great potential (isn't it in your opinion) and I believe that is true. I haven't suggested who is to blame for anything only stated that the region is a mess. What's got your goat exactly? Where is the ignorance?
Nothing wrong with him saying that really, and people really should stop kidding themselves about the Middle East. They've been squabbling since before America even existed and they'll continue to do so long after. As long as the culture is centred around tribal organisation, they will find a reason to fight. America is just the current excuse.That has to be one of the most ironic or ignorant posts of this thread.
Agreeing with Trump about unfulfilled potential and hoping for peace in the region when the Americans (and Saudis) are the single greatest cause for unrest in that region.
One of the main purposes of Iran pushing back on America was to kick them out of the region! Which pretty much every country there wants, other than Saudi and Israel because of their own interests.
But oh! Poor Americans! Only wish for peace and prosperity in the Middle East.
If Barrack Obama tragically died tomorrow there would probably be commotion in major american cities and possibly even some others around the world. Besides the national holiday and state funeral that goes with the death of any US president.
He would be able to command $250k just for an evening of after dinner speaking. His earning potential is huge across many avenues.Talking of Obama, and slightly off thread, I read last month that he's just bought a house in New England somewhere for $ 12 million.
Now where did he get that kind of money from ??
Book deals. Him and Michelle reportedly got $65m (some say lower) from Penguin for the rights to their memoirs (and Michelle's have already been published iirc). Obama also already had over $10 million before the presidency from his past 2 books that were big hits once he became a leading candidate and then president.Talking of Obama, and slightly off thread, I read last month that he's just bought a house in New England somewhere for $ 12 million.
Now where did he get that kind of money from ??
Instagram.Talking of Obama, and slightly off thread, I read last month that he's just bought a house in New England somewhere for $ 12 million.
Now where did he get that kind of money from ??
Some level of research from Ukranians. Gotta believe the internet!Oleksiy Danilov, secretary of Ukraine's Security Council, said officials had several working theories regarding the crash, including a missile strike.
"A strike by a missile, possibly a Tor missile system, is among the main (theories), as information has surfaced on the internet about elements of a missile being found near the site of the crash," Danilov said.
Don't hold your breath. In the murky world of geopolitics it isn't a crucial event.Accident or not, you bring a plane down with almost 200 innocent people, there has to be consequences and big ones at that.
Trudeau wanting answers basically, but the press in general want answers fastWhat are the feelings towards the event in Canada?
Also wondering.... maybe we can sell a compelling book on the history of RedCafe. I'm sure everyone wants to read that...OK...Thanks.
Only read about the house purchase - didn't read anything about book deals.
Who do I contact about one of these book deals then ?
Am I being naive to suggest that the size of the plane, plus its trajectory, would be completely at odds with a US fighter/bomber aircraft?
I am actually a bit confused. If you would have told me 7 days ago, that the Iranians shoot down a plane and nobody would react, I would have considered you crazy. Maybe more is coming once we have more information, but currently it looks a bit like everyone pretends that this is not that big of a deal. Thats the reaction I expected from the caf ("upsy daisy, just a little accident."), but I would have thought that western politicians would react very different. I would have thought that this is the kind of act, that could lead to serious escalation.Don't hold your breath. In the murky world of geopolitics it isn't a crucial event.
Most here would love to read thatAlso wondering.... maybe we can sell a compelling book on the history of RedCafe. I'm sure everyone wants to read that...
No. Indeed if a SAM site is located close to an airport you'd expect the operators to be very familiar with the patterns of commercial traffic into and out of the airport. Vectors, altitudes, speeds, etc. Besides the transponder signals which would also tell them what the individual aircraft are. You'd imagine that seeing commercial airliners in and out of the airport is what they do every single day, while searching for other anomalies that might be actual targets.Am I being naive to suggest that the size of the plane, plus its trajectory, would be completely at odds with a US fighter/bomber aircraft?
Once it's proven beyond any doubt. Yes.I am actually a bit confused. If you would have told me 7 days ago, that the Iranians shoot down a plane and nobody would react, I would have considered you crazy. Maybe more is coming once we have more information, but currently it looks a bit like everyone pretends that this is not that big of a deal. Thats the reaction I expected from the caf ("upsy daisy, just a little accident."), but I would have thought that western politicians would react very different. I would have thought that this is the kind of act, that could lead to serious escalation.
Are you thinking that the US really does want a war with Iran? I'm more thinking that the West doesn't want a war with Iran so starting one over an accident wouldn't make sense. I say accident because it seems there is no clear motive as to why they'd take this plane down, unless I'm missing something?I am actually a bit confused. If you would have told me 7 days ago, that the Iranians shoot down a plane and nobody would react, I would have considered you crazy. Maybe more is coming once we have more information, but currently it looks a bit like everyone pretends that this is not that big of a deal. Thats the reaction I expected from the caf ("upsy daisy, just a little accident."), but I would have thought that western politicians would react very different. I would have thought that this is the kind of act, that could lead to serious escalation.
If anything, it got them off the hook from having to escalate after the airbase strikes because it serves as a distraction.I am actually a bit confused. If you would have told me 7 days ago, that the Iranians shoot down a plane and nobody would react, I would have considered you crazy. Maybe more is coming once we have more information, but currently it looks a bit like everyone pretends that this is not that big of a deal. Thats the reaction I expected from the caf ("upsy daisy, just a little accident."), but I would have thought that western politicians would react very different. I would have thought that this is the kind of act, that could lead to serious escalation.
You'd think it would be impossible to confuse the two, but pitch dark for the naked eye and' 'on-the-edge' military I'd believe it's possible.
There are some rumours ( not yet confirmed ) that the aircraft might have been in the process of returning to the airport with some mechanical problem or for some other reason.
If those rumours are correct, and it had deviated from its original, expected heading and was now unexpectedly descending directly towards the missile site close to the airport, then who knows....
Thanks guys.No. Indeed if a SAM site is located close to an airport you'd expect the operators to be very familiar with the patterns of commercial traffic into and out of the airport. Vectors, altitudes, speeds, etc. Besides the transponder signals which would also tell them what the individual aircraft are. You'd imagine that seeing commercial airliners in and out of the airport is what they do every single day, while searching for other anomalies that might be actual targets.
But... now consider that they're in a high alert status because their country launched ballistic missiles at Iraq hours ago, they're a SAM site in the capital, supposedly close to several targets the US might like to strike, and the SAM site itself is a prime target that the US would go after ahead of others in the area (so operators fear for their own life). Finally, the enemy they're looking for are known for their stealth aircraft that the SAM radars might only catch a glimpse of right when its on top of them... sets up a situation where if anything about any plane out of the airport that night looked out of place for a few seconds the operators might choose to fire.
I dont think western countries want war, but it wouldn't have surprised me to see limited military retaliation after such an event. I certainly would have thought that the language would have been very very different. Trump not going off the deep end in any answer/speech is a minor miracle in itself, but answering so restrained after such an event is very surprising. I would have expected very very strong condemnation coupled with at least some symbolic action from the western leaders.Are you think that the US really do want a war with Iran? I'm more thinking that the West doesn't want a war with Iran so starting one over an accident wouldn't make sense. I say accident because it seems there is no clear motive as to why they'd take this plane down, unless I'm missing something?
If it was 60 Americans who died instead of 60 Canadians there would have been a much different reaction.I am actually a bit confused. If you would have told me 7 days ago, that the Iranians shoot down a plane and nobody would react, I would have considered you crazy. Maybe more is coming once we have more information, but currently it looks a bit like everyone pretends that this is not that big of a deal. Thats the reaction I expected from the caf ("upsy daisy, just a little accident."), but I would have thought that western politicians would react very different. I would have thought that this is the kind of act, that could lead to serious escalation.