the real terrorist in the white house is the cause of all this.
Iran Plane Crash and Subsequent Protests
- Thread starter Fergies Gum
- Start date
The largest contingents on board were Iranians and Canadians of Iranian heritage. Seems an odd choice for revenge in this context.
Well this aged well- Why would iranians kill their people?
- Why would they kill Canadians, surely they are not that bad at geography?
- Missplacing a commercial fight for some combat plane is ridiculous and amateurish, I have heard people here talking about how well equipped Iran is, so this would be a childish error
- Even if they missplaced it(but still not believing it), surely they wouldn't missplace the plane that just took off from their airport, that's just ridiculous, have people actually read anything on this before believimg the shit we got served in the news
I mean, we had amateur terrorists taking over a plane and crashing it into a building but yet well equipped Iranians aren't supposed to differentiate commercial flights - on their own field few km away from their airport
- Americans have so many reasons to tell the world it was Iran who shot it down - people forget that Boeing had their fair share of problems and looks like everyone here is ignoring the fact that Boeing is one of America's biggest and most famous companies, even if they prove it was broke, they will still make us all believe it was shot down by Iran
- America will never allow another scandal involving Boeing, another one of these can literally destroy the company.
- France and UK literally supported USA's terroristic attack few days ago, and we are supposed to believe their objective view on this plane crash?
Yeah, I am done here. This is worse than people believing conspiracy theories made on youtube by 16 year olds.
Oh yeah, it's pretty clear alright from the 240p video that someone made, basic physics
Yes, perhaps. It's a Ukrainian airline heading to Ukraine with info on Ukrainian, UK and German nationals onboard. I wouldn't put it past someone within the chain to hastily down the jet.
They accused Western nations of "lying and engaging in psychological warfare" after this plane was shot down. They've had to own it instead of using it themselves.
The thread title needs updating I feel. This wasn't a crash. It was murder.
Get to feck.
Seriously, anyone white-washing the crimes of that criminal and indefensible regime just to score political points vs. Trump....hang your heads in shame.
Insane.
Sonny, putting news first
Quite easily. Poorly trained and equipped soldiers operating a fairly advanced anti aircraft weapon, on high alert for attacks and knowing that any blip or oddity on their radar screen could be the stealth bomber they've been told might be coming.
The Iranian's are of course responsible for their actions but the US created the situation for no discerable legitimate reason, so they are at the very least equally culpable. You create huge tension in an already unstable region and people die.
Russia and the US have both accidentally shot down passenger aircraft with neatly 300 people killed each time so it happening in Iran just when they were braced for a US assault isn't exactly a total suprise.
Of course it was a mistake. Why would they want toshoot down a plane packed with Iranians knowing they couldn't cover it up? Especially since they seemed to be winning the PR war at the time.
Equally culpable is too much but definitely Trump and his goons played a role and helped set the environment for this. Iran should have been smarter about shutting down their airspace to civilian aircraft, no excuse for not doing that.
Plenty of blame to go around.
Shouldn’t the thread title be changed now from ‘crash’?
would you accept this kind of argument the other way around?
Iranian controlled militias stormed the US embassy and created the hostile environment for the assassination of Soleimani. The US should have been smarter about this by not reacting to these numerous provocations, but the Iranian government definitely played a role in setting the whole chain of events in motion.
I do accept that argument and believe it goes both ways. I have been consistent in saying I see this situation involving two axes of terror, the Iranian regime and the current WH. One should not ignore/minimize either side's contribution to the current series of events. I also do think that most of the blame for the plane crash should fall on Iran. After all, this is not the first war they have fought and they have perpetrated violent acts in the region recently (drone attack on Saudi oil). The reason they were on high alert is because they fired ballistic missiles into another country. Therefore, they should have been more prepared to handle their airspace and reduce mistakes that could affect their civilian population. It was careless and callous, similar to how Trump has been careless and callous in his own way.
I don't have an issue with Soleimani paying the price for his numerous bad actions but as a general for a state military (not a non-state actor) I don't think the US should have targeted him the way it did because it sets a bad precedent moving forward. I think a covert or proxy action would have been more suitable to hold him to account and it could have happened at a later date if needed.
we had a treaty with Iran. Trump tears it up.
And he kills their general.
Yes. He is directly responsible for this 'accident'.
Try to think.
If memory serves, the Obama WH called this deal a "non binding agreement". It wasn't ratified by Congress ( which shares the treaty responsibilities) therefore it isn't actually a treaty. Its why trump could just come in and rip it up easily.
I guess the real villain in all of this is Obama then if we are to use your logic.
The simple point is Trump escalated the tension with Iran. The agreement was not ratified by a Republican Congress.Iran did not want any conflict.
But please miss the point.
Ripping up an agreement isn't conflict though.
US-Iran tensions: Timeline of events leading to Soleimani killing
A look at the events leading to the US killing of Iran's Qassem Soleimani and the escalation that followed.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...eading-soleimani-killing-200103152234464.html
Both of thlse factors are incidental to your broader point. You're making the claim that an advanced military wouldn't kill hundreds of people in a commercial plane because they misread the signals. Yet here's the evidence that other advanced militaries did precisely that, in all kinds of scenarios.
In other words, the broader point is conclusively not true. Human error is an immensely powerful thing, and it can be the singular cause of these catastrophes even with the greatest technology we've ever built.
That doesn't mean the Iranian military is incredibly powerful. It just means you can't use this incident to prove they aren't, no matter how much you want it to. And the undertones in your messages against Iran are there for everyone to see even if you don't want to acknowledge them.
I am aware of the time line. Not sure what that has to do with the overall point of the discussion.
Trump definitely started the tensions no one is disputing that. But to say the reason that these people are now dead is because of trump and his diplomatic pressure campaign against Iran is kind of crazy in my opinion.
good grief.
What undertones? Yeah I'm not best pleased with Iran. They killed a plane full of innocent people calamitously and without reason. That's including 4 Brits.
It should. I did ask earlier.
These cavemen from the dark ages killing their own people...and then decidedly not using the same language when people from the US or the UK did that. Actually it's preferable if we don't talk about that at all, but anyway it's different, it wouldn't be right to talk about those decisions as being made by people living in the dark ages. Those blanks are filled in very easily.
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imposing punitiv and deadly sanctions is
Iran are an odd regime and not blameless for many things. Even if they ordered or facilitsted the embassy invasion the US are meant to be the adults in the room. Trump went full murderous toddler tantrum and here we are.
Allegedly the US military offered him the options and were stunned when he choose and insisted on the assasination.
And after Iran briefly behaved like adults they're being dicks again. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51077897
It's almost like they want to be wiped out.
We did it was called the non proliferation treaty which Iran broke or decided it wasn't upholding anymore. This whole situation comes down to Iran deciding it wants nukes and how best the rest of the world can stop them from getting them.
If you want to give me an example where a country has accidentally shot down a chartered passenger jumbo jet that has just left their own airport and is in their own airspace I'll gladly treat them with the same contempt. It's total amateur hour and the attempts at covering it up are disgusting.
My point was Iran's missile attacks were a complete and utter failure despite a number of people suggesting that they are a real military power. They aren't as advanced as people think and this utter calamity highlights it.
Pretty stupid thing to do in the current climate.
And can you imagine Iran with nuclear capabilities? Off the back of this. Chilling.
Agreed, it was an amateur move. Maybe it was the most amateur move of its kind - I'm no expert on accidental plane take downs and neither are you. The point is that IR655 was also an amateur move by the most advanced military in the world, and by definition, the greatest technology definitively does not prevent amateur mistakes. So your core point is refuted by the evidence but you choose to avoid even engaging with that because you have an agenda, in part because you're angry about what Iran did, and in part because of your broader perception of Iranian people (in sharp contrast to your perception of people closer to home).
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A few months ago India accidentally shot down its own helicopter because pakistani f16's were flying close to the border with an intention to bomb Indian military bases along the border. You should note that all these systems are automated and when they're turned on it only takes a few seconds of miscalculation for it to turn into a disaster.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ing-down-own-chopper/articleshow/70812964.cms
Bollocks, Iran were absolutely sticking to the agreement. French, Canadian and UK governments all agree with that. Trump wanted out as he wanted an excuse to hit Iran and also because Obama was the one who was involved with the agreement and Trump wants to destroy anything Obama achieved.
BS. Trump unilaterally tore it up.
If i was an iranian id want nukes too when idiots like trump are in charge and beating the drums of war.
An Islamic state with nukes? Hopefully western powers never allow this!
BS. Trump unilaterally tore it up.
If i was an iranian id want nukes too when idiots like trump are in charge and beating the drums of war.