Yeah, the live news feed should make clear separation between reporting news and presenting opinion.Indeed, but the media in general need to be reporting more responsibly I feel. The Guardian's coverage is comprehensive, but they keep interspersing it with political snipes. It's not necessary at the moment.
The governments assumption is the spread of this can’t be stopped, it can only be managed. Herd immunity is something you get anyway, in that scenario. It doesn’t need to be a goal, but it’s an effect.You know that there are quotes from the chief medical advisor to the government saying the exact opposite on this very page, right?
On what basis is anybody guaranteeing that herd immunity will occur?No @B20, he's saying what is true. Europe is heading to herd immunity whether it's planned or not. Surely you understand this is inevitable at this stage right? Or do you honestly believe we can surpress it?
He's confirming that their aim/plan is to try and reduce the peak, broaden the peak and protect those most vulnerable.
Focus on the second one. It's yer man who bought 17,000 bottles. Karma.With prime it appears to be just 42$. Should I go for it?
Edit: Never mind. It's sold out.
Yup.The only decision that has been political, ie not at the advice of the health authorities, has been the closing of the border.
They aren't going for herd immunity
Why have large public gatherings and football matches been banned?You know that there are quotes from the chief medical advisor to the government saying the exact opposite on this very page, right?
I think you’ll see a big voluntary and community effort, which is probably being planned behind the scenes now. Wouldn’t at all be surprised if you see Uber Eats and Deliveroo infrastructures used.Yeah, that's great if the elderly person has family or friendly neighbours. Some won't have those or will be too proud to rely on them. In these cases, the government will need to deliver food and other essentials to them, otherwise these people are going to be going out to buy food. They need to think this through more
If you watch the Sky News interview he talks about building up herd immunity in a future tense and it is only part of the strategy, actually as a by-product of the other measures. Banning of public events and complete shutdowns are part of the plan also. The key disagreement is how soon to implement all the closures etc. The UK plan doesn't favour early shutdowns, travel bans etc because they perceive them of having limited efficacy and because you are going to have to open up again some time soon and the virus will explode again. Multiple shutdowns will have grave social and economic effects and cause mass suffering in and of themselves.This is the person who are you supposed to trust the most, right:
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...f-defends-uk-measures-criticism-herd-immunity
“Our aim is to try and reduce the peak, broaden the peak, not suppress it completely; also, because the vast majority of people get a mild illness, to build up some kind of herd immunity so more people are immune to this disease and we reduce the transmission, at the same time we protect those who are most vulnerable to it. Those are the key things we need to do.”
@Classical Mechanic @Smores @Regulus Arcturus Black
No-one is, but it's likely as we know how viruses work.On what basis is anybody guaranteeing that herd immunity will occur?
You're a clever bloke JP, re-read that.While I get the UK's approach when it comes to not go too fast into a "lockdown". I'm not sure if they took into account the fact that the UK has a higher population density than most continental countries, it's one of the countries where things could get totally wrong in relatively small areas like Greater London. I could be wrong but looking at the french infection maps, it seems that there is a corrolation between density and the amount of infected people in an area.
The UK explicitly isn't following WHO recommendations. In fact I'm not even sure it has claimed to be doing so.You're getting all of this wrong.
UK has confirmed it absolutely is not going for herd immunity.
And b), the UK IS following WHO guidelines and will continue to do so, on their timeline.
My God, no-one is doing this now man!! It's way past that stage!Whereas the UK have said such testing is not necessary:
"It is no longer necessary for us to identify every case and we will move from having testing mainly done in homes and outpatients and walk-in centres, to a situation where people who are remaining at home do not need testing".
That's a huge fundamental difference on one of the WHO's key pillars on tackling the pandemic, which itself immediately impacts on another of their key pillars, contact tracing.
Why are you highlighting the bold and ignoring the rest? People are acting as if the government is actively trying to infect people as widely and as quickly as possible. Herd immunity is a by product of the inevitable outcome. Of course the effects that brings about should be taken into account of the strategy.This is the person who are you supposed to trust the most, right:
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...f-defends-uk-measures-criticism-herd-immunity
“Our aim is to try and reduce the peak, broaden the peak, not suppress it completely; also, because the vast majority of people get a mild illness, to build up some kind of herd immunity so more people are immune to this disease and we reduce the transmission, at the same time we protect those who are most vulnerable to it. Those are the key things we need to do.”
@Classical Mechanic @Smores @Regulus Arcturus Black
But people seem to be contracting it again after having had it once, so unless somebody has a vaccine I’m not aware of then any talk of herd immunity being “inevitable” as you put it is very ostrich like.No-one is, but it's likely as we know how viruses work.
But it's inevitable at this stage that we're heading towards a large majority of the population contracting it.
linkPrime Minister Scott Morrison says Australian schools should remain open for the time being, despite growing calls for them to shut down to slow the spread of the coronavirus.
However, Mr Morrison encouraged a policy of “social distancing” amongst children, where they stay 1.5 metres apart from each other at school.
Incredible, right?"Our aim is to try and... build up some kind of herd immunity"
Regulus' reading of the quote
He's completely ignored all the important parts of that passage and concentrated on the bold, twisting it into believing what you've posted above, that the UK is in some way rying to infect people as widely and as quickly as possible, which isn't what he said at all.Why are you highlighting the bold and ignoring the rest? People are acting as if the government is actively trying to infect people as widely and as quickly as possible. Herd immunity is a by product of the inevitable outcome. Of course the effects that brings about should be taken into account of the strategy.
That's the end result for every country. It's a scientific reality, not a policy that can decided on in any way."Our aim is to try and... build up some kind of herd immunity"
Regulus' reading of the quote
That's why I think that what I have read and heard is utterly stupid. I'm giving zero credits to their intelligence but maybe I'm totally wrong.You're a clever bloke JP, re-read that.
I'd imagine their models know full well how densely populated the UK is.
This is my theory as to why Spain has such an explosion of cases and its growing faster than anybody else in Europe. Their outbreak occurred in the middle of Madrid. In Italy it started in some random rural towns.While I get the UK's approach when it comes to not go too fast into a "lockdown". I'm not sure if they took into account the fact that the UK has a higher population density than most continental countries, it's one of the countries where things could get totally wrong in relatively small areas like Greater London. I could be wrong but looking at the french infection maps, it seems that there is a corrolation between density and the amount of infected people in an area.
How many confirmed cases of this Rado?But people seem to be contracting it again after having had it once.
Yeah, that's fair explanation, but I think they are giving different explanations every day, so IMO they definitely aren't clear on their plan yet.If you watch the Sky News interview he talks about building up herd immunity in a future tense and it is only part of the strategy, actually as a by-product of the other measures. Banning of public events and complete shutdowns are part of the plan also. The key disagreement is how soon to implement all the closures etc. The UK plan doesn't favour early shutdowns, travel bans etc because they perceive them of having limited efficacy and because you are going to have to open up again some time soon and the virus will explode again. Multiple shutdowns will have grave social and economic effects and cause mass suffering in and of themselves.
I'm not saying the UK approach is correct because I am just an ordinary citizen at the end of the day. The WHO approach will be optimal if a vaccine or better treatment can be found in short time but if those things do not happen it may turn out to be the wrong approach.
"Our aim is to try and... build up some kind of herd immunity"
Regulus' reading of the quote
You two are incredible.Incredible, right?
This below response seems as good as any.How many confirmed cases of this Rado?
The real problem with herd immunity is that we have no evidence yet that immunity can definitely be achieved.
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20200315_13/
https://www.latimes.com/world-natio...n-korea-coronavirus-reinfection-test-positive
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...id-19-twice-sick-spread-relapse-a9400691.html
This article suggests that's just down to bad testing though:
https://thehill.com/changing-americ...on-cures/487436-can-you-get-coronavirus-twice
If this is the case, then "herd immunity" is going to be nearly impossible as a percentage of people could always get reinfected. This would mean the governments current plan of action would eventually result in almost 100% of people getting infected at some point and with the mortality rate high that would have absolutely devastating consequences.
Good luck with that mate!Yeah, the live news feed should make clear separation between reporting news and presenting opinion.
From that article:This below response seems as good as any.
That quote from the WHO calling for more aggressive testing and contact tracing is from Friday, after the UK had announced that such testing was no longer necessary. There has been absolutely zero suggestion from the WHO that testing or contact tracing should lessen in phase two.My God, no-one is doing this now man!! It's way past that stage!
That was phase one, and the UK did that at phase one.
Almost amusing given your repetitive “they’re not going for herd immunity” nonsense when the government are repeatedly saying they are.From that article:
"Scientists in and outside China agree that reinfection is a highly unlikely explanation for the patients who retest positive. They say testing errors are more likely to blame —
either false negatives that resulted in patients being discharged too early, or false positives when they retested and were taken back into hospital."
Sometimes it pays to continue reading.
Yes true.Im in the north and unionist, but they'll just have to get in line with ireland if that happens. No way we can have one set of rules and ireland another. Its impossible and closing the border would be impossible as well imo
Fecking hell.From that article:
"Scientists in and outside China agree that reinfection is a highly unlikely explanation for the patients who retest positive. They say testing errors are more likely to blame —
either false negatives that resulted in patients being discharged too early, or false positives when they retested and were taken back into hospital."
Sometimes it pays to continue reading.
Because the advice by the government is particularly vague.Why?
You can manage booking online and it’s free to change flights.