SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Grinner]

Bang on correct.
I have previously mentioned that China must be held accountable for all the human and financial damage that they have ultimately caused.

So what are you gonna do, send the bully boys round?

 

[Deery]

Listening to a doctor talking about what will happen Boris sounds like he will have tubes going in everywhere the groin, the stomach, the veins.

 

[Fiskey]

Doubt it. Most private hospitals ship their A&E cases to the NHS because it's too expensive and high risk so they're not really set up for it that well. Usually the NHS has very high standards in A&E, it's the more mundane services that suffer. Also, I think the private hospitals are renting their Covid-19 beds to the NHS anyway aren't they?

From what I've heard a lot of non Covid patients are being moved to private hospitals to create more covid beds within NHS.

 

[TheReligion]

So what are you gonna do, send the bully boys round?

There needs to be a full inquiry and sanctions put in place economically until China takes the necessary steps to prevent this again and become more transparent with the WHO in the event of any future world health issue.

 

[golden_blunder]

And those who do need it but are skint will not go.

Those on social will probably still get it free on a medical card system.

 

[Fiskey]

If/when he pulls through then I hope it will open his eyes to protecting the NHS and not selling it off to the american insurance Companies.
I think there should be a national debate once things have settled down about raising more funding for it to pay for more equipment, better equipment, opening more hospitals, renovating others and paying nursing staff better so that they don’t go abroad. Time to look after our NHS staff; they’ve more than proven how key they are.
In the light of this I’d propose a charge for going to a&e for example. People who genuinely need it will pay it, and those who don’t really need it will think twice

Ideally you'd want a means tested charge if your injury was self inflicted in some way. If you go on a Saturday night so many drunks/druggies.

I'd also say a nudge charge on GP appointments, like the plastic bag charge.

 

[FireballXL5]

If/when he pulls through then I hope it will open his eyes to protecting the NHS and not selling it off to the american insurance Companies.
I think there should be a national debate once things have settled down about raising more funding for it to pay for more equipment, better equipment, opening more hospitals, renovating others and paying nursing staff better so that they don’t go abroad. Time to look after our NHS staff; they’ve more than proven how key they are.
In the light of this I’d propose a charge for going to a&e for example. People who genuinely need it will pay it, and those who don’t really need it will think twice

You'd like to think so, but a leopard and it's spots...

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/03/31/...applaud-the-nhs-they-ideologically-oppose-it/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/25/boris-johnson-conservatives-nhs-funding

 

[Skills]

Those on social will probably still get it free on a medical card system.

And what about the people who slip through the system? As we've seen, either by design or by pure negligence a lot of people who need help seem to slip through their policies.

 

[F-Red]

I'd also say a nudge charge on GP appointments, like the plastic bag charge.

Pointless, GP's just need to be more militant with their time & how they use it.. More video or telephone based appointment first, and reserve face to face appointments for those that need it. Having the ability to have face to face appointments is a nice to have, but in reality impossible to scale.

Once you start charging for something, the floodgates open. It's a dangerous path to go down.

 

[sparx99]

Those on social will probably still get it free on a medical card system.

Better off people already pay for private healthcare (Bupa or Harley street or wherever). Lots of people get private healthcare through work.

Switching to a semi-private health system because some rich people use the health service seems a huge waste of time and expense. Everybody who works pays tax and funds the NHS already. One of the ways you keep the wealthy onside is by not restricting their access to the services as well. They have a choice to use the NHS Or go private.

 

[Fiskey]

And what about the people who slip through the system? As we've seen, either by design or by pure negligence a lot of people who need help seem to slip through their policies.

It depends on what you want, and your philosophical position.

Would you prefer a system that has greater benefits for 60m people, in the knowledge that that some people, say 100 will fall through the cracks? Or would you prefer a system where no one can fall through the cracks but it's less efficient for everyone else. Obviously if that 100 becomes 1m you've got a rubbish system that needs to be changed.

I don't think we should design these massive systems from the starting point that it must be impossible to fall through the cracks.

 

[Smores]

Those on social will probably still get it free on a medical card system.

And how are you going to pay for the administration of that? What about those who have recently found themselves impoverished? What about the increase of serious cases because people put off seeking help due to cost?

There's a very good reason we've maintained free at the point of use for several decades. How about we just fund it adequately through taxation eh?

 

[Skills]

Pointless, GP's just need to be more militant with their time & how they use it.. More video or telephone based appointment first, and reserve face to face appointments for those that need it. Having the ability to have face to face appointments is a nice to have, but in reality impossible to scale.

They already are. But even then many of them are working well past the hours, because they have so much paperwork to fill and records to upkeep. Then once you've been diagnosed/sent for tests, they also need to find time to follow up and look at the results.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Regardless of your political affiliations or his record, boris is still a human being with a family trying to do a near impossible job in unprecedented circumstances, and even ignoring that fact, the last thing we need as a nation now is a leaderless government while the remaining politicians bicker and squabble over the top job.

 

[Smores]

It depends on what you want, and your philosophical position.

Would you prefer a system that has greater benefits for 60m people, in the knowledge that that some people, say 100 will fall through the cracks? Or would you prefer a system where no one can fall through the cracks but it's less efficient for everyone else. Obviously if that 100 becomes 1m you've got a rubbish system that needs to be changed.

I don't think we should design these massive systems from the starting point that it must be impossible to fall through the cracks.

Can we bore off with the right wing ideological attacks on the NHS whilst they're all risking their lives for the societal good.

 

[Skills]

It depends on what you want, and your philosophical position.

Would you prefer a system that has greater benefits for 60m people, in the knowledge that that some people, say 100 will fall through the cracks? Or would you prefer a system where no one can fall through the cracks but it's less efficient for everyone else. Obviously if that 100 becomes 1m you've got a rubbish system that needs to be changed.

I don't think we should design these massive systems from the starting point that it must be impossible to fall through the cracks.

If there's anyone here who's been involved with any homeless shelter/food bank in this country you'll know which of the two is more likely.

 

[Grinner]

ok, again lets have a wider NHS debate in a separate thread from now on please. People come in here to read about CV and not wade through pages of other stuff. The odd comment here and there is fine but this is becoming a debate in it's own right.

 

[Fiskey]

And how are you going to pay for the administration of that? What about those who have recently found themselves impoverished? What about the increase of serious cases because people put off seeking help due to cost?

There's a very good reason we've maintained free at the point of use for several decades. How about we just fund it adequately through taxation eh?

Lots of countries with better healthcare outcomes do it in a different way. There are reasonable positions on both sides of the debate, it's just what you prioritise.

I know for sure my French, German, Dutch and Swiss friends wouldn't choose the NHS over their systems and most of my British friends love the NHS. I've only met Americans from the developed world who truly hate their own health system.

There are lots of reasonable positions on this debate.

 

[Fiskey]

Can we bore off with the right wing ideological attacks on the NHS whilst they're all risking their lives for the societal good.

It's not an attack, and doctors and nurses all over the world are risking their lives currently whatever country they are in.

 

[Fiskey]

ok, again lets have a wider NHS debate in a separate thread from now on please. People come in here to read about CV and not wade through pages of other stuff. The odd comment here and there is fine but this is becoming a debate in it's own right.

Noted, only just saw this.

 

[RobinLFC]

Belgium hospitalizations keep decreasing (source).

02/04: +584
03/04: +578
04/04: +503
05/04: +499
06/04: +420
07/04: +314

Very encouraging. ICU admissions have been less than 20 for 3 days straight as well, and even had a decrease yesterday.

 

[Grinner]

Noted, only just saw this.

No worries, just start a thread if it's something you want to discuss

 

[Skills]

Belgium hospitalizations keep decreasing.

02/04: +584
03/04: +578
04/04: +503
05/04: +499
06/04: +420
07/04: +314

Very encouraging. ICU admissions have been less than 20 for 3 days straight as well, and even a decrease yesterday.

Belgium were early to react to this whole thing & it's starting to show results. I think you guys will have best outcome in Europe if you can manage the transition into "life as usual"

 

[Sweet Square]

And you don’t help. The worst poster in this thread imo

Ah stop you're making me blush

 

[Virgil]

Trump:

Belgium were early to react to this whole thing & it's starting to show results. I think you guys will have best outcome in Europe if you can manage the transition into "life as usual"

I recognise it’s not a charitable thought but I cannot help but be thankful that we will not be amongst the first countries to ease the lockdown. If second spikes do occur we will have prior warning. After all the whole world is guessing at present.

 

[golden_blunder]

And how are you going to pay for the administration of that? What about those who have recently found themselves impoverished? What about the increase of serious cases because people put off seeking help due to cost?

There's a very good reason we've maintained free at the point of use for several decades. How about we just fund it adequately through taxation eh?

If you read my first post I’m merely suggesting opening it up to public debate.

secondly I’m not saying making it semi private im saying keep it the same but ask people to make a nominal payment for some things. This will add extra money to the coffers. There are too manywho burden the a&e for example with stuff that they should go to a gp with

anyways this should prob all go in a seperate thread

 

[RobinLFC]

Belgium were early to react to this whole thing & it's starting to show results. I think you guys will have best outcome in Europe if you can manage the transition into "life as usual"

I think we were not among the first countries but certainly early-ish yeah, March 14th. I think the transition will be in several phases - there's talk of a gradual return to school (kindergarten first, then elementary school, then high school), then business and shops to re-open again and then last of all the hotels, restaurants and pubs. If I had to guess at a timeline right now, I'd say schools early May, shops/businesses mid-May and pubs end of May, but I'd rather they err on the side of caution in this case. Will probably also depend on the amount of tests available to detect immunity and antibodies, stuff like that.

Would be delighted if life more or less has returned to "normal" by summer. Social distancing will be here for the long run until we have a vaccine though, I'd think.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Belgium hospitalizations keep decreasing (source).

02/04: +584
03/04: +578
04/04: +503
05/04: +499
06/04: +420
07/04: +314

Very encouraging. ICU admissions have been less than 20 for 3 days straight as well, and even had a decrease yesterday.

Excellent news. How strict are your social distancing regulations?

 

[Skills]

I recognise it’s not a charitable thought but I cannot help but be thankful that we will not be amongst the first countries to ease the lockdown. If second spikes do occur we will have prior warning. After all the whole world is guessing at present.

A second spike to me is a failure of managing the community spread. The entire point of a lockdown for me is helping us return the situation to a manageable state, and putting in place measures to manage the spread within the community. So still heavy social distancing, high testing capacity and still closing off non-esssntial travel.

Funnily enough, the later you are to react in the first place the more likely it is that you will need a longer lockdown, for this exact reason. It'll take longer for you to get the situation back to a manageable level.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Just checked Belgium on that google mobility thingy. Actually not too different to Uk/Ireland.

https://www.gstatic.com/covid19/mobility/2020-03-29_BE_Mobility_Report_en.pdf

 

[Smores]

With the curves seemingly flattening across countries i just hope nations are ready with their testing.

You ideally want to end up in a situation where you can test to identify and contact trace as many as possible. That will be the key factor in determining how long the majority can have relaxed rules.

Unfortunately i can't see it being too long before stricter measures are necessary again. I can see us making the mistake of opening pubs and everyone flooding to them.

 

[do.ob]

I recognise it’s not a charitable thought but I cannot help but be thankful that we will not be amongst the first countries to ease the lockdown. If second spikes do occur we will have prior warning. After all the whole world is guessing at present.

With wide spread testing there should be a lot more to it than guess work, especially if the return to normal is done in waves.

 

[RobinLFC]

Excellent news. How strict are your social distancing regulations?

WFH in every business where it's possible. Only essential trips allowed (work, gas stations, pharmacy, supermarkets). Still allowed to go out for walks / runs / cycling tours with people from your household or one friend (same friend all the time though, sort of a "corona buddy"), keeping in mind social distancing rules. Police are out in big numbers to oversee everything, especially with the sunny weather right now. So not too different from other EU countries I'd say?

It's been more than 3 weeks of "lockdown light" right now though so good that we start to see the results. We also get reminded daily to still follow the rules, even though a decline is starting to show. Government has also made use of celebrities on social media to keep the public informed and engaged, with stuff like #SaveTheSummer and things like that. I genuinely think that it helps, especially to make the younger people adhere to the rules for as long as need be.

 

[Port Vale Devil]

Gove into isolation after family member develops symptoms.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8195581/Michael-Gove-goes-coronavirus-self-isolation.html

 

[redshaw]

Spain

5478 new cases (140510 total)
743 deaths (13798)

 

[SilentWitness]

People who want or hope Boris dies are very strange. Say what you want about the bloke but he's going to be a father. That will be a kid left without a dad. I don't like him or his values but to wish that he dies says a lot about you.

 

[Silva]

People who want or hope Boris dies are very strange. Say what you want about the bloke but he's going to be a father. That will be a kid left without a dad. I don't like him or his values but to wish that he dies says a lot about you.

there's good statistical reasons to assume boris wasn't going to raise this kid, just say "he's a human you cnuts" don't try to appeal to an aspect of his humanity that's just a black fecking hole

 

[ivaldo]

Those on social will probably still get it free on a medical card system.

Edit: Deleted because Grinner threatened to send me more nudes if I didn't.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

I'm sure Boris with be fine. He'll have the best care, and DRs will be receiving international specialist advice I'm sure.
Speedy recovery to the guy, I like him. Hope he drops the whole HS2 thing however, in flavor of better funding for the NHS. He's now understanding how much it's needed.

 

[Grinner]

I keep hearing that he runs often and plays tennis. He hasn't the motor skills for tennis. He doesn't look fit at all.